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Post by William the Bloody on Oct 23, 2004 15:26:27 GMT -5
The games afoot!
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 23, 2004 22:24:55 GMT -5
SUE - Nice effort - now I see why it took awhile!
I like how you pointed out the growth of the friendship and trust between Wallace and Veronica - I really hadn't noticed how much they count on each other, and come through for one another.
I laughed at your comment about Sheriff intimidation causing Troy to insist they go straight to the dance - I hadn't even made that connection, though it was obvious when I read it in your review. Also didn't note the fact that she WAS wearing strapless satin, now.
I definitely agree about how very, very much she's changed, and about the emphasis in the ep on "masks" everyone put on. I didn't see Lily's mom in quite as harsh a light as you did. There were major tensions between mother and daughter, but both parents seem very much about making sure surface appearances stay in place - of course, making us wonder what they are hiding. I thought she was surprised and sort of upset at Logan's video, but not all that upset.
That quote of Veronica's - I'm glad you mentioned it, I thought it was very important: "I've already lived the dream; everything else is a cheap reminder." Man - that is a very, very, very sad statement from a teenager, who should be feeling like the best years are ahead of her. It will be self-fulfilling prophecy if she continues to believe it.
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Oct 24, 2004 13:46:25 GMT -5
Sue, what a neat way to start your review - I think you proved your point very well too. Veronica IS potentially great TV...we can only hope she gets the chance to prove it.
(Yes, this is me, Patti. *grin*)
Your first thought about the skinny dipping scene (the hair!) was my second. My first was - she wore NOTHING under that dress? maybe SHE's the one who didn't expect to stay at the dance.
Lily....sleaze. Gotta KNOW something created this...I'm thinking the truth is out there, and it ain't pretty...
The only question you had that I think I have an answer for is why the college con artist was so easily duped by the offer of a chance to experience the matrix game.
He was creating a game himself - it was his major interest in life - this must have been impossible to resist- a sneak peek at the major competition.
I'm really glad that Veronica's estrangement with Duncan and Logan seems to be softening each week. I think they are both essentially ok.
I still do not like or trust Troy.
My only complaints this week - too much Lily, not enough Weevil. *smile*
Really good review Sue, thanks!
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Post by Matthew on Oct 25, 2004 0:47:08 GMT -5
Very good review, Sue. I think that that line is something like "The only girls they see in there are Anime girls" which would be why, to me, Veronica went in there dressed as a quasi-Japanese Schoolgirl: the knee socks, the short skirt, and the white with blue piping shirt. The black wig as well. All she needed to be note-perfect would have been a sailor bib on the back of the shirt. But it was close enough. Gamer geeks would have accepted her appearance there in that fashion without suspicion, though with a great deal of appreciation and surprise. And regarding the safe in the wall closet: they were appearantly running shadow copies of their hard drives in a safe in there: duplicating the data on their hard drives. To have an active computer setup going in there would have required venting for the heat, hence the chimney she filled up with soda. Technically, the data on those disks could still be recoverable: a hard drive has two major components: a sealed chamber with the rotating disks and the reader arm in it, and a controller card that connects to it through sealed connections, and is outside the sealed chamber. The controller card connects to the computer itself. I've known people who do recovery of mission critical data from hard drives sent to them; they keep a large stock of cast-off hard drive parts handy, so that if it is the controller card that has failed, they just drop in a new card and Voila! you can access the data on the disk again. So, technically, they could have done without what she had hostage, but I can see the mere chance of it being unrecovorable as an unnacceptable risk to them. Worth what she charged them. What the above means is just a rambling geeky dissertation that all was not completely lost to them, but that they could not risk it. And as for the security system? I think it would be possible to decode it that easily, if the button tones were phone tone based. I've not yet run across one that was rigged up that way, but I've not played with more than five or so. And again, Sue, great review. I think that you are right in its potential to be great television: I actually found that episode to be the most interesting of the three I've so far seen. I do think that the revelations in the Truth or Dare game and morning after confrontations are gonna be vital. I think that Mrs. Kane done it. This week, at least.
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Post by Lola m on Oct 25, 2004 17:04:16 GMT -5
Nice job, Sue! Really liked how you start with a general concept - the different levels of meaning in a TV show and the idea that shows incorporating all of the levels are what can make truly great TV - and then apply it to analyse this week's ep of VM. It's not only a clever theory, but a really interesting way to approach this ep and this series. This ep's story-of-the-week was a fun one, I thought. Lots of actual "detective-y" stuff for VM to do, nicely balanced against the bittersweet memories of Lily and the just plain sweet romance for Wallace. Like you, I'm not sure how realistic all the bits were (Veronica figuring out the alarm code on one listen jumped out at me too ) but it was a fun, fast paced caper. Liked your summary of the main relationships that were highlighted in this ep. Veronica and Wallace, Veronica and her dad, Veronica and Troy. I'd also add Veronica and Logan. I really liked the very small quiet moments between them while he is trying to edit the film of Lily's life. Had a very real feel to them - not suddenly making them best buds again, but just a few moments of mutual understanding. Finally, thanks for all the examples of scenes and moments related to Lily's murder. Oddly enough, even though we had all the flashbacks and the memorial and so on, I hadn't noticed just how much info, how many tidbits of hints or possible hints we got until you pointed them all out. In your summary, I think I particularly liked: Yes! Because neither extreme or the other was probably the "real" Lily. Not the "misty and water-colored" version that Mrs. Kane wanted. Not just the wild girl we see in the flashbacks to last year's dance. Lola
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Post by Sue on Oct 25, 2004 20:23:32 GMT -5
Nice job, Sue! Really liked how you start with a general concept - the different levels of meaning in a TV show and the idea that shows incorporating all of the levels are what can make truly great TV - and then apply it to analyse this week's ep of VM. It's not only a clever theory, but a really interesting way to approach this ep and this series. This ep's story-of-the-week was a fun one, I thought. Lots of actual "detective-y" stuff for VM to do, nicely balanced against the bittersweet memories of Lily and the just plain sweet romance for Wallace. Like you, I'm not sure how realistic all the bits were (Veronica figuring out the alarm code on one listen jumped out at me too ) but it was a fun, fast paced caper. Liked your summary of the main relationships that were highlighted in this ep. Veronica and Wallace, Veronica and her dad, Veronica and Troy. I'd also add Veronica and Logan. I really liked the very small quiet moments between them while he is trying to edit the film of Lily's life. Had a very real feel to them - not suddenly making them best buds again, but just a few moments of mutual understanding. Finally, thanks for all the examples of scenes and moments related to Lily's murder. Oddly enough, even though we had all the flashbacks and the memorial and so on, I hadn't noticed just how much info, how many tidbits of hints or possible hints we got until you pointed them all out. In your summary, I think I particularly liked: Yes! Because neither extreme or the other was probably the "real" Lily. Not the "misty and water-colored" version that Mrs. Kane wanted. Not just the wild girl we see in the flashbacks to last year's dance. Lola I'm going to work backwards commenting on the comments. I'm glad you (and Patti) liked the set up. That's part of what took so long. My head insisted on writing this long exposition that had no direct relation to the actual episode. The good news is I think I'm going to stick with the "skeleton" of looking at the SOTW; character growth and relationship; and murder arc for future reviews. Which should really speed things up. On being surprised at all the flashback info. Whether folks like this show or not, it absolutely dab-smacks me at how much story and information they can squeeze into 44 minutes! There just doesn't seem to be any wasted moments, words, facial expressions....every moment seems to be useful in advancing some part of the story. Again--I find the reviewing difficult because there is so much there to sort through and organize. I find myself practically creating an entire transcript! And, yes, the Logan/V moments were very very short but still riveting. Even when there were no words. Once more, great acting. He's excellent at conveying much with just a small change in facial expression. I really didn't like him at first and now he's my favorite. And I certainly think we are far, far from knowing all of the layers of the characters' personalities, let alone their relationships. (And I'm not entirely sure I want to actually get to know about everything that went on in the Kane household.) We are piling up so many side-plots---wonder if they will all be tied up. Like Mrs. Mars role. And...weirdly, I miss the sheriff---he's just too easy to hate and mock.
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Post by Sue on Oct 25, 2004 20:29:54 GMT -5
Very good review, Sue. I think that that line is something like "The only girls they see in their are Anime girls" which would be why, to me, Veronica went in there dressed as a quasi-Japanese Schoolgirl: the knee socks, the short skirt, and the white with blue piping shirt. The black wig as well. All she needed to be note-perfect would have been a sailor bib on the back of the shirt. But it was close enough. Gamer geeks would have accepted her appearance there in that fashion without suspicion, though with a great deal of appreciation and surprise. Thanks, Matthew. I was sure somebody here would be able to solve that for me. And the costume certainly makes a lot more sense in that context. Clearly the writers were setting the stage for her get-up, but I couldn't understand the clue. And... I also appreciate the input on this item. Not that I couldn't appreciate it without total understanding, but that extra background helps. I really am coming to think of VM as mini-MacGyver. Well, in that case you can get back to me on that one when you learn for sure. Actually, I'm sort of feeling enough confidence in the writers to feel like they wouldn't fake it if they weren't pretty sure it was actually doable under perfect circumstances (see MacGyver comment again.) Interesting. Lola liked the SOTW too. I actually didn't like it so much as the first three. Maybe because I thought some of the points were pushing the outlandish envelope. But, huge points for continuing to be clever and innovative.
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Post by Sue on Oct 25, 2004 20:40:06 GMT -5
Sue, what a neat way to start your review - I think you proved your point very well too. Veronica IS potentially great TV...we can only hope she gets the chance to prove it. (Yes, this is me, Patti. *grin*) Your first thought about the skinny dipping scene (the hair!) was my second. My first was - she wore NOTHING under that dress? maybe SHE's the one who didn't expect to stay at the dance. Lily....sleaze. Gotta KNOW something created this...I'm thinking the truth is out there, and it ain't pretty... The only question you had that I think I have an answer for is why the college con artist was so easily duped by the offer of a chance to experience the matrix game. He was creating a game himself - it was his major interest in life - this must have been impossible to resist- a sneak peek at the major competition. I'm really glad that Veronica's estrangement with Duncan and Logan seems to be softening each week. I think they are both essentially ok. I still do not like or trust Troy. My only complaints this week - too much Lily, not enough Weevil. *smile* Really good review Sue, thanks! As with Lola, thanks for liking the intro stuff. I thought alot about dropping it, glad I didn't. And, yeah, I did have that thought about the no underwear----and the view from the limo! But, with two daughters---just can't imagine her ruining her "prom-do." So--now she's gone skinning-dipping AND is no longer a virgin. (Still wondering about Duncan, tho.) I'm with you all the way about Troy and I think that was deliberately foreshadowed in his exchanges with Mr. Mars. I wonder when (if? ) we'll find out if more episodes are going to be ordered. It would seem like a pretty good deal if both UPN and MTV are bringing in commercial income. And the Weevil thing was such a teaser.
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Post by Sue on Oct 25, 2004 20:47:41 GMT -5
SUE - Nice effort - now I see why it took awhile! I like how you pointed out the growth of the friendship and trust between Wallace and Veronica - I really hadn't noticed how much they count on each other, and come through for one another. I laughed at your comment about Sheriff intimidation causing Troy to insist they go straight to the dance - I hadn't even made that connection, though it was obvious when I read it in your review. Also didn't note the fact that she WAS wearing strapless satin, now. I definitely agree about how very, very much she's changed, and about the emphasis in the ep on "masks" everyone put on. I didn't see Lily's mom in quite as harsh a light as you did. There were major tensions between mother and daughter, but both parents seem very much about making sure surface appearances stay in place - of course, making us wonder what they are hiding. I thought she was surprised and sort of upset at Logan's video, but not all that upset. That quote of Veronica's - I'm glad you mentioned it, I thought it was very important: "I've already lived the dream; everything else is a cheap reminder." Man - that is a very, very, very sad statement from a teenager, who should be feeling like the best years are ahead of her. It will be self-fulfilling prophecy if she continues to believe it. The first shall be last and.... When you think about it Veronica and Wallace really haven't known each other that long, but they certainly have that brother/sister vibe going on. I really loved the scene where he tries to tell Veronica that guys don't talk about whether they like girls ... and then caves in. If I'd caught on sooner the whole review might have been centered around the duping/impersonating theme. But---I wasn't going to go back and start over at that point! Still, it reminds me to watch more closely next time for recurring themes. I agree that the Kanes are ALL about superficial appearances---even to the exclusion of wanting the murder solved. Oh, that's right, they *think* it has been. Well, somebody knows that's a crock, but, of course has no interest in disproving it. But, I'll disagree with you about Mrs. Kane. I think she was livid about the video--she could barely keep up her front. She better not find out that Veronica contributed that footage. She's a scary woman. Thanks for the kind words.
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Post by Nickim on Oct 26, 2004 19:36:14 GMT -5
Sue,
Great review. I watched VM on MTV tonight. I thought the same thing about her prom-do. Love the curls. Did anyone else think she looked just like Anya in both red outfits? I totally agree with your assessment of Mrs. Kane's reaction to the video. Livid is the perfect word. I remember someone mentioned that Veronica had cut her hair after the rape. Mrs. Kane's is short now, too. Wonder what thing could mean? Mr. Kane really seemed to care about his daughter, Mrs. Kane just seems to care about her own image. I'm with Matthew, right now I'd say Mrs. Kane did it. I really liked the interaction between Veronica and Wallace. The way they count on each other, is the what we all hope to find in our friends. And, the scenes with Logan and Veronica in the video room were great. I think Logan is a lot nicer than he wants anyone to know. Troy, on the other hand....But, at least Mr. Mars put some proper fear into him.
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Post by Lola m on Feb 1, 2005 22:46:19 GMT -5
I liked this ep just as much the second time as the first. The "undercover" work and costumes by Veronica. Wallace and his oh so wonderfully just-plain-happy vibe with Georgia. The memorial and video of Lily. The Mission Impossible case of the week. Little things I noticed this time: * I've really been listening to the opening theme song lately. "A long time ago, we used to be friends, but I haven't thought of you lately at all." Sometimes a theme song is just a song. But this seems . . . well, it has a lot of different ways it could be taken, but "just a song" doesn't seem to be one to me. * The relationship between Lily and Veronica is so highlighted in this episode. Between the memories of last year's dance and the memorial video, Lily seems so present in this ep. Oddly enough, more here than when she is actually appearing to people to tantalize them with hints and questions about her death. * Keith is so much more "on to" Troy and his scamming/scummy ways than I realized when I didn't really know about Troy yet. I mean, we all had our suspicions, but, looking at Keith's behavior with what we know now, I see a lot more. * Lily and Duncan's parents are upset about the no-show at the dance. Veronica's dad is upset. But either no one called the Echolls or else they didn't particularly care about Logan. Or maybe dad was just waiting for him to get home. * The final shot of Lily in the video, beautiful with the slo-mo to stop of her - free and full of life, face to the wind - "You love me, don't you?" This video was put together by people who loved her - Logan and Veronica - who are smiling as they watch, as is Duncan until he comforts his dad. The two who are crying are Mr. Kane and Weevil. Kyle Secor was just so great in that scene - first just sort of shut down, then almost happy, almost laughing as the video shows all the sides of Lily, then the almost laughter turning to sobs. Very nicely done. Lola
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Post by artemis on Feb 4, 2005 12:00:55 GMT -5
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Post by artemis on Feb 4, 2005 12:10:46 GMT -5
I liked this ep just as much the second time as the first. <snip> * Keith is so much more "on to" Troy and his scamming/scummy ways than I realized when I didn't really know about Troy yet. I mean, we all had our suspicions, but, looking at Keith's behavior with what we know now, I see a lot more. * Lily and Duncan's parents are upset about the no-show at the dance. Veronica's dad is upset. But either no one called the Echolls or else they didn't particularly care about Logan. Or maybe dad was just waiting for him to get home. <snip> i really liked this ep the second time around too, lola. there were some things i noticed more clearly the second time around, too, including the ones quoted above. i was also more struck by celeste's behavior in this episode after seeing "an echolls' family christmas". i thought her line about how lilly was the cause of all the problems the family had ever had was especially chilling -- and read more ominously -- in light of later episodes. her behavior at the memorial service when compared to the behavior of those that clearly demonstrated love for lilly also struck me more this time around. if she didn't kill her or cause her death second-hand, she at least didn't seem to love lilly very much (if at all). regardless of whether she was a part of the plot, i somehow doubt she lost much sleep over lilly's death.
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Post by Sue on Feb 4, 2005 12:21:18 GMT -5
Good to see you (back). I'm thinking somebody did somewhere once upon a time post the link. (Cause I've read it and this is the only place I'd have come across it, I think.) But, no worries. The site has grown so large and busy that repeating valuable information is considered a plus not a minus.
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Post by Sue on Feb 4, 2005 12:23:47 GMT -5
i really liked this ep the second time around too, lola. there were some things i noticed more clearly the second time around, too, including the ones quoted above. i was also more struck by celeste's behavior in this episode after seeing "an echolls' family christmas". i thought her line about how lilly was the cause of all the problems the family had ever had was especially chilling -- and read more ominously -- in light of later episodes. her behavior at the memorial service when compared to the behavior of those that clearly demonstrated love for lilly also struck me more this time around. if she didn't kill her or cause her death second-hand, she at least didn't seem to love lilly very much (if at all). regardless of whether she was a part of the plot, i somehow doubt she lost much sleep over lilly's death. I'm nodding my head over all of this. I also was struck by that line. I'm still thinking that Lilly may just possibly be Weevil's actual half-sister: the product of Jake and Weevil's mother--ergo the Celeste-hate. Maybe Leeann knew that and that's why Celeste set the security guy on Veronica. speculation, speculation.... ;D
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