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Post by Lola m on Nov 17, 2005 10:14:01 GMT -5
Hi all! Cool postings! Excellent episode except for the severe lack of Cliff. Arrrrgh! It's 2 3 am here, but a couple of thoughts occurred to me about this episode. Silly me had to share, cause they seemed shiny... So, the chart in the investment class about who's up and who's down -- morality chart? The rankings were: Beaver, Veronica (lots of murky actions this season), Logan, Duncan and Dick. Duncan's stock is dropping and Dick is the lowest of the low. All based on choices. (Pixi -- ask and ye shall receive. ) The other parallel I saw was how the baby sittees correlated to the boys, too. I think that the robo-kid with the decaptating artistic bent matches Duncan pretty well. The spoiled tyrant would match Dick. The stressed-out Mom-squashed boy would be Beaver. And the poor, abused child in the closet -- Logan. Interesting that the child was a girl in this case. So our emancipated boys are as emancipated as ... hookers? Linda, hope this makes sense after sleep... Very shiny! I love the little kid comparisons to the big kids, and the "morality" chart. Poor Beaver. He is quite the totally rejected child. I hope Veronica takes him under her wing. That would be a very cool thing. And when you look at the sketches, if I remember correctly, Beaver has detective stuff.
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Post by Rob on Nov 17, 2005 10:45:44 GMT -5
Things I'm disappointed in: Veronica is pretty cold in the bathroom. I can fanwank a lot of stuff going on underneath but damm - cold girl. You broke up with him - he is the one who should be all bitter, not you. [ Dick continues to be "over-the-top" with his actions. And I again think this is a signal to us that despite the smile and goofiness, he is not just a harmless doofus. I think he is serious trouble, and much darker than any of the other "boys." I think Veronica is being overly cold to Logan because she has to be, to contain the hot feelings. She wouldn't need that much ice on the surface, if she didn't have that fire roaring inside. Duncan and Kendall - well, Kendall definitely tried to give Logan the impression she had been successful tempting Duncan, but it was really hard to tell. I think it is possible he did have sex with her. Duncan is something of a mystery in this area. People complain about Duncan's portrayal, but I think we are getting just what Rob T wants us to get. Duncan is very much "inside himself" and doesn't let other see what he is really about. Duncan was a sweetie in this episode mostly - getting concerned about the little girl, taking part in helping her out. He could have blown the whole thing off, but he did not. 1. Interesting point about Little Richard, Spring...it's almost as if we're having his insensitive cluelessness shoved down out throats. Doesn't seem like RT to create a character for no other reason than to provide comic relief. 2. Speaking from a completely objective viewpoint re: Veronica/Logan, I don't think she's being excessively cold at all. It's true she ended things, which gave Logan a bit of the moral high ground, I suppose...but he's used that position to excess, going the extra mile to make things extremely difficult. Considering her natural instincts to strike back, I think Veronica's shown remarkable understanding by doing little more than try to ignore his lashing out. In addition, she DID agree to help him pretty quickly. Sometimes Logan well earns the treatment he receives. That's all I'm saying. 3. Something I've found strange: Duncan's a pretty good looking guy, yes? Yet there's been no drooling references when it comes to him stepping out of the shower with a towel wrapped around himself. Plenty of shirtless Logan stuff...but nary a word about Duncan. Are fans SO bothered by the character that they can't even recognize him as attractive? Or would that be a betrayal of Logan in some way? Not criticizing, just curious. 4. I'm as suspicious of Duncan of anyone, as I've said before...but without his willingness to take action, the authorities wouldn't be aware of that poor child in the closet. Whatever else he may be hiding, this belies the notion that Duncan is a shell who cares about no one but himself. Just like Lamb, he's not an entirely one-dimensional person...it just looked that way. Certain things DO mean a great deal to him. Let me say again, I don't trust Duncan in the long run...but if I'm going to rip him, it seems only right to recognize that he deserves some credit for stepping up and doing the right thing.
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 17, 2005 11:00:15 GMT -5
[ Dick continues to be "over-the-top" with his actions. And I again think this is a signal to us that despite the smile and goofiness, he is not just a harmless doofus. I think he is serious trouble, and much darker than any of the other "boys." I think Veronica is being overly cold to Logan because she has to be, to contain the hot feelings. She wouldn't need that much ice on the surface, if she didn't have that fire roaring inside. Duncan and Kendall - well, Kendall definitely tried to give Logan the impression she had been successful tempting Duncan, but it was really hard to tell. I think it is possible he did have sex with her. Duncan is something of a mystery in this area. People complain about Duncan's portrayal, but I think we are getting just what Rob T wants us to get. Duncan is very much "inside himself" and doesn't let other see what he is really about. Duncan was a sweetie in this episode mostly - getting concerned about the little girl, taking part in helping her out. He could have blown the whole thing off, but he did not. 1. Interesting point about Little Richard, Spring...it's almost as if we're having his insensitive cluelessness shoved down out throats. Doesn't seem like RT to create a character for no other reason than to provide comic relief. Yes, agree. The guy encouraged his younger brother to rape Veronica. I don't think it is a coincidence that the insensitivity and snark we see from him is over-the-top. The "killing Mexicans" comment, the "maid suit" for Kendall - pointless, not even heat-of-the moment - deliberate meanness. There is something seriously wrong there. I don't mean to say he is a one-dimensional character, as none of them are. But I don't buy the "harmless doofus" and I don't think we are meant to. OH - I agree completely that Logan "earns" the treatment he's getting - including the break-up. Logan left Veronica little choice but to break up with him, IMO. I do think though, that part of her . . . stiffness with him, is due to the fact that she continues to have feelings for him, and is keeping them in check. In fact, I think her inability to continue to be icy - quickly agreeing to help him - is all about that. Can be of no help here. My favorite guy is Keith. I am guessing that we just don't happen to have any big Duncan fans on the board. I can tell you that it's not just about "the cute," though I'm thinking you already know that, from having your own female faves. It's just . . . they have that certain something for you, or they don't. A guy can be extremely good looking, but that doesn't mean I'll be attracted, even though I can see that he is. Agree. Duncan is your basic VM flawed but essentially OK character, I think. He is the most inward and hardest to judge. But some people are like that. His actions about the abused child reveal a very good side.
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Post by Pixi on Nov 17, 2005 11:02:39 GMT -5
[ Dick continues to be "over-the-top" with his actions. And I again think this is a signal to us that despite the smile and goofiness, he is not just a harmless doofus. I think he is serious trouble, and much darker than any of the other "boys." I think Veronica is being overly cold to Logan because she has to be, to contain the hot feelings. She wouldn't need that much ice on the surface, if she didn't have that fire roaring inside. Duncan and Kendall - well, Kendall definitely tried to give Logan the impression she had been successful tempting Duncan, but it was really hard to tell. I think it is possible he did have sex with her. Duncan is something of a mystery in this area. People complain about Duncan's portrayal, but I think we are getting just what Rob T wants us to get. Duncan is very much "inside himself" and doesn't let other see what he is really about. Duncan was a sweetie in this episode mostly - getting concerned about the little girl, taking part in helping her out. He could have blown the whole thing off, but he did not. 1. Interesting point about Little Richard, Spring...it's almost as if we're having his insensitive cluelessness shoved down out throats. Doesn't seem like RT to create a character for no other reason than to provide comic relief. 2. Speaking from a completely objective viewpoint re: Veronica/Logan, I don't think she's being excessively cold at all. It's true she ended things, which gave Logan a bit of the moral high ground, I suppose...but he's used that position to excess, going the extra mile to make things extremely difficult. Considering her natural instincts to strike back, I think Veronica's shown remarkable understanding by doing little more than try to ignore his lashing out. In addition, she DID agree to help him pretty quickly. Sometimes Logan well earns the treatment he receives. That's all I'm saying. 3. Something I've found strange: Duncan's a pretty good looking guy, yes? Yet there's been no drooling references when it comes to him stepping out of the shower with a towel wrapped around himself. Plenty of shirtless Logan stuff...but nary a word about Duncan. Are fans SO bothered by the character that they can't even recognize him as attractive? Or would that be a betrayal of Logan in some way? Not criticizing, just curious. 4. I'm as suspicious of Duncan of anyone, as I've said before...but without his willingness to take action, the authorities wouldn't be aware of that poor child in the closet. Whatever else he may be hiding, this belies the notion that Duncan is a shell who cares about no one but himself. Just like Lamb, he's not an entirely one-dimensional person...it just looked that way. Certain things DO mean a great deal to him. Let me say again, I don't trust Duncan in the long run...but if I'm going to rip him, it seems only right to recognize that he deserves some credit for stepping up and doing the right thing. Well Rob - Donut is simply unattractive for one thing. Not as ripped as Logan (drool Logan's back, okay I'm better) and frankly I have never, ever found him attractive in the slightest. I do think our perception of him colors our appreciation of him. I know there are Duncan fans on TWOP but I for one can not forgive him for not only sleeping with someone he thought was his sister but mostly for the then leaving her alone the next morning and then letting her be verbally abused all year while idly standing by. This year I find his stalking Veronica (showing up every day at her workplace) while she was still with Logan also horrible and I believe that not only did he get Meg pregnant but he is hiding other secrets. I think there is a lot of hidden secrets that we will be finding out about Duncan. Plus - if I had to choose, based on the length of time Kendall was in his room and the wiping of her mouth as she leaves - I would guess more along the lines of oral sex. Either way there is no fire in their kisses, no passion in his scenes with Veronica. Couple that with the fire and chemistry and sheer talent JD brings to every scene and you find the bare chest of Duncan boring. But then - I'm biased. And I admit it. Someone who likes Duncan should respond to this too.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Nov 17, 2005 11:21:36 GMT -5
I know I miss a lot, trying to watch this show on Thursday mornings. A few thoughts - I get the impression that Lamb was abused by his father? Duncan - I think that it's not the actor, it's the character that's flat. He's, I don't know the clinical term, emotionally shut down. Duncan is using Veronica as a security blanket, as she is using him, and I think there's going to be a blowup of some kind eventually. None of the young males in this show do anything for me; my Mrs Robinson moments are reserved strictly for Xander. Differing tastes, I expect.
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Post by Pixi on Nov 17, 2005 11:25:30 GMT -5
I know I miss a lot, trying to watch this show on Thursday mornings. A few thoughts - I get the impression that Lamb was abused by his father? Duncan - I think that it's not the actor, it's the character that's flat. He's, I don't know the clinical term, emotionally shut down. Duncan is using Veronica as a security blanket, as she is using him, and I think there's going to be a blowup of some kind eventually. None of the young males in this show do anything for me; my Mrs Robinson moments are reserved strictly for Xander. Differing tastes, I expect. Yes - I think it was meant to imply that Lamb had an abusive father also. I like the way however that they didn't do anything to build sympathy for Lamb. We can still hate him. That scene was extremely well done.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Nov 17, 2005 11:27:18 GMT -5
I know I miss a lot, trying to watch this show on Thursday mornings. A few thoughts - I get the impression that Lamb was abused by his father? Duncan - I think that it's not the actor, it's the character that's flat. He's, I don't know the clinical term, emotionally shut down. Duncan is using Veronica as a security blanket, as she is using him, and I think there's going to be a blowup of some kind eventually. None of the young males in this show do anything for me; my Mrs Robinson moments are reserved strictly for Xander. Differing tastes, I expect. Yes - I think it was meant to imply that Lamb had an abusive father also. I like the way however that they didn't do anything to build sympathy for Lamb. We can still hate him. That scene was extremely well done. I think we're being shown that he's a decent guy, even if he is an asshat - he checked the closet himself, let Veronica and Duncan go, then went back and staked out the house.
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Post by Onjel on Nov 17, 2005 11:33:52 GMT -5
I know I miss a lot, trying to watch this show on Thursday mornings. A few thoughts - I get the impression that Lamb was abused by his father? Duncan - I think that it's not the actor, it's the character that's flat. He's, I don't know the clinical term, emotionally shut down. Duncan is using Veronica as a security blanket, as she is using him, and I think there's going to be a blowup of some kind eventually. None of the young males in this show do anything for me; my Mrs Robinson moments are reserved strictly for Xander. Differing tastes, I expect. I'm in the same boat here, Anne. (Well, what do you guys expect? We are sharing a brain after all. ) These kids are not physically attractive to me. Their characters are fascinating and the acting is very well done, but I can't say that I find any of them droolworthy. No denigration of others' opinions is intended here. Everyone has different tastes and that is what makes this a wonderful place.
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 17, 2005 11:43:09 GMT -5
I know I miss a lot, trying to watch this show on Thursday mornings. A few thoughts - I get the impression that Lamb was abused by his father? Duncan - I think that it's not the actor, it's the character that's flat. He's, I don't know the clinical term, emotionally shut down. Duncan is using Veronica as a security blanket, as she is using him, and I think there's going to be a blowup of some kind eventually. None of the young males in this show do anything for me; my Mrs Robinson moments are reserved strictly for Xander. Differing tastes, I expect. Yes - I think it was meant to imply that Lamb had an abusive father also. I like the way however that they didn't do anything to build sympathy for Lamb. We can still hate him. That scene was extremely well done. Yes - I thought that was the very definite intent of Lamb's line about "I heard my father give that speech." Either he himself, or one of his siblings, or both, were abused by dad. Agree - the scene was perfection!
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Post by Pixi on Nov 17, 2005 12:01:48 GMT -5
I know I miss a lot, trying to watch this show on Thursday mornings. A few thoughts - I get the impression that Lamb was abused by his father? Duncan - I think that it's not the actor, it's the character that's flat. He's, I don't know the clinical term, emotionally shut down. Duncan is using Veronica as a security blanket, as she is using him, and I think there's going to be a blowup of some kind eventually. None of the young males in this show do anything for me; my Mrs Robinson moments are reserved strictly for Xander. Differing tastes, I expect. I'm in the same boat here, Anne. (Well, what do you guys expect? We are sharing a brain after all. ) These kids are not physically attractive to me. Their characters are fascinating and the acting is very well done, but I can't say that I find any of them droolworthy. No denigration of others' opinions is intended here. Everyone has different tastes and that is what makes this a wonderful place. See - that's okay with me. I can drool over Logan to my heart's content here without battling off the rampaging hoards on other boards. Pardon me - my mind just flashed to his back again. Cheatty, Cheatty Bang, Bang - chest of Logan Rat Saw God - Arms of Logan Nobody Puts Baby in a Corner - Back of Logan Let's see - um if you're looking for new areas to explore next week writers I'll take thighs of Logan. Hah - you all thought I was going for something more smutty didn't you?
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Post by Pixi on Nov 17, 2005 12:06:30 GMT -5
Just a little FYI - Rob Thomas was checking posts over at TWOP at around 10:45 a.m. and last night right after the show according to his log-in profile.
The board is overall extremely positive about the episode.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Nov 17, 2005 13:55:39 GMT -5
I'm in the same boat here, Anne. (Well, what do you guys expect? We are sharing a brain after all. ) These kids are not physically attractive to me. Their characters are fascinating and the acting is very well done, but I can't say that I find any of them droolworthy. No denigration of others' opinions is intended here. Everyone has different tastes and that is what makes this a wonderful place. See - that's okay with me. I can drool over Logan to my heart's content here with battling off the rampaging hoards on other boards. Pardon me - my mind just flashed to his back again. Cheatty, Cheatty Bang, Bang - chest of Logan Rat Saw God - Arms of Logan Nobody Puts Baby in a Corner - Back of Logan Let's see - um if you're looking for new areas to explore next week writers I'll take thighs of Logan. Hah - you all thought I was going for something more smutty didn't you? Since there's only so much they can show on broadcast TV... I'm sure that your fertile imagination can fill in what follows logically above the Logan-thighs.
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 17, 2005 15:41:13 GMT -5
I'm in the same boat here, Anne. (Well, what do you guys expect? We are sharing a brain after all. ) These kids are not physically attractive to me. Their characters are fascinating and the acting is very well done, but I can't say that I find any of them droolworthy. No denigration of others' opinions is intended here. Everyone has different tastes and that is what makes this a wonderful place. See - that's okay with me. I can drool over Logan to my heart's content here with battling off the rampaging hoards on other boards. Pardon me - my mind just flashed to his back again. Cheatty, Cheatty Bang, Bang - chest of Logan Rat Saw God - Arms of Logan Nobody Puts Baby in a Corner - Back of Logan Let's see - um if you're looking for new areas to explore next week writers I'll take thighs of Logan. Hah - you all thought I was going for something more smutty didn't you? Sounds like you are getting ready for Thanksgiving already! People always fight over the drumsticks.
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Post by Michelle on Nov 17, 2005 18:00:16 GMT -5
Great episode! So much to absorb, I'm definitely going to have to watch a couple more times.
My theory about Duncan & Kendall: I think she gave him a blow job--as indicated by the way she wiped the side of her mouth after leaving his room.
There was an article about a month ago, I think in...USA Today, maybe? It was about how many teenagers today don't think oral sex is "real" sex, and it caused quite a stir among some people. Some of the blame for this attitude was being placed on Clinton/Lewinsky affair, and Clinton's assertion that he "did NOT have sexual relations with that woman." But then, oops, it turns out Monica kept the dress, and we all know what happened from there.
When Veronica asked Duncan if he felt it was wrong that his friend's stepmom was coming over to visit Logan, Duncan rationalized that it was OK "because she's hot." So, in Duncan's mind, adultery isn't adultery if he can find a loophole. I think getting a blowjob is another one of Duncan's loopholes. In his mind, he didn't have sex, and therefore he didn't cheat on his girlfriend.
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Post by leftylady on Nov 17, 2005 18:06:40 GMT -5
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