|
Post by leftylady on Nov 17, 2005 18:31:36 GMT -5
1. Interesting point about Little Richard, Spring...it's almost as if we're having his insensitive cluelessness shoved down out throats. Doesn't seem like RT to create a character for no other reason than to provide comic relief. Yes, agree. The guy encouraged his younger brother to rape Veronica. I don't think it is a coincidence that the insensitivity and snark we see from him is over-the-top. The "killing Mexicans" comment, the "maid suit" for Kendall - pointless, not even heat-of-the moment - deliberate meanness. There is something seriously wrong there. I don't mean to say he is a one-dimensional character, as none of them are. But I don't buy the "harmless doofus" and I don't think we are meant to. OH - I agree completely that Logan "earns" the treatment he's getting - including the break-up. Logan left Veronica little choice but to break up with him, IMO. I do think though, that part of her . . . stiffness with him, is due to the fact that she continues to have feelings for him, and is keeping them in check. In fact, I think her inability to continue to be icy - quickly agreeing to help him - is all about that. Can be of no help here. My favorite guy is Keith. I am guessing that we just don't happen to have any big Duncan fans on the board. I can tell you that it's not just about "the cute," though I'm thinking you already know that, from having your own female faves. It's just . . . they have that certain something for you, or they don't. A guy can be extremely good looking, but that doesn't mean I'll be attracted, even though I can see that he is. Agree. Duncan is your basic VM flawed but essentially OK character, I think. He is the most inward and hardest to judge. But some people are like that. His actions about the abused child reveal a very good side. Not too good at inter-cutting replies. Won't even attempt to intercut on inter-cutting replies. So I'll just add my comments here at the bottom. Spring, eetah on your original post. Rob, I liked the perspective you added. Dick is just that. And don't forget the ooky arm around stepmom with the leering wanting to get to know her better line. Made my skin crawl. Almost felt sorry for the poor, penniless skank. Yes, V broke up with Logan. But he was starting to act up which was the reason for the rejection and he most certainly has been the psychotic jackass again when it comes to Veronica, maybe not as blatant as last year, but certainly not anything Veronica deserves and what a way to express your lingering affections for your ex-girlfriend! Down to no.3: Rob, looks only go so far. The personality projected make a huge difference in attractive vs ok. Example: Angel would fall into Hollywood's classic hunk category on looks, and Spike not so classic. Look at the media attention to the 2 roles. Spike always seems to get shortchanged in recognition about the Whedonverse by the media. But based on the personality of the characters, I "like" Angel but prefer Spike by a long shot. Duncan and Logan have often been likened in S'cubie VM discussions to Angel & Spike roles, and I see much the same dynamics working in the attractiveness or not expressed for the VM male characters. (But, personally, I'm not going to go gaga over either actor since they are both way way too young for me, but Keith is closer to the ballpark. Here again, Keith is not in the Hollywood leading man mold, but the personality is very, very appealing.) But then again, to each his or her own taste!
|
|
|
Post by Rob on Nov 17, 2005 19:47:33 GMT -5
Down to no.3: Rob, looks only go so far. The personality projected make a huge difference in attractive vs ok. Example: Angel would fall into Hollywood's classic hunk category on looks, and Spike not so classic. Look at the media attention to the 2 roles. Spike always seems to get shortchanged in recognition about the Whedonverse by the media. But based on the personality of the characters, I "like" Angel but prefer Spike by a long shot. Duncan and Logan have often been likened in S'cubie VM discussions to Angel & Spike roles, and I see much the same dynamics working in the attractiveness or not expressed for the VM male characters. (But, personally, I'm not going to go gaga over either actor since they are both way way too young for me, but Keith is closer to the ballpark. Here again, Keith is not in the Hollywood leading man mold, but the personality is very, very appealing.) But then again, to each his or her own taste! I guess I wasn't intending to come off as a shallow "looks only" sort. I just find it interesting that people find characters who aren't very nice (on the surface, at least) extremely attractive. Let's face it: if it were all about decency and sensitivity, Wallace and Keith would be infinitely more attractive than Logan OR Duncan. Strangely, I've missed the "Wallace-hottie" posts (though I've seen some Keith love here and there). Which is not to say the Wallace love doesn't exist...I just haven't seen it personally. In my experience, young people like their drama...and Logan is nothing if not dramatic. So I see the attraction. I just don't necessarily see it as healthy; I think Veronica is struggling with that very thing. My Duncan example was an attempt to get a read on whether this massive LoVe thing on the Web is physical...or something more psychologically complex. Maybe one definition of maturity would be understanding "friendship" material as the true "relationship" material in disguise...but hey, what do I know? I've avoided marriage like the plague thus far.
|
|
|
Post by SpringSummers on Nov 17, 2005 20:18:57 GMT -5
Down to no.3: Rob, looks only go so far. The personality projected make a huge difference in attractive vs ok. Example: Angel would fall into Hollywood's classic hunk category on looks, and Spike not so classic. Look at the media attention to the 2 roles. Spike always seems to get shortchanged in recognition about the Whedonverse by the media. But based on the personality of the characters, I "like" Angel but prefer Spike by a long shot. Duncan and Logan have often been likened in S'cubie VM discussions to Angel & Spike roles, and I see much the same dynamics working in the attractiveness or not expressed for the VM male characters. (But, personally, I'm not going to go gaga over either actor since they are both way way too young for me, but Keith is closer to the ballpark. Here again, Keith is not in the Hollywood leading man mold, but the personality is very, very appealing.) But then again, to each his or her own taste! I guess I wasn't intending to come off as a shallow "looks only" sort. I just find it interesting that people find characters who aren't very nice (on the surface, at least) extremely attractive. Let's face it: if it were all about decency and sensitivity, Wallace and Keith would be infinitely more attractive than Logan OR Duncan. Strangely, I've missed the "Wallace-hottie" posts (though I've seen some Keith love here and there). Which is not to say the Wallace love doesn't exist...I just haven't seen it personally. In my experience, young people like their drama...and Logan is nothing if not dramatic. So I see the attraction. I just don't necessarily see it as healthy; I think Veronica is struggling with that very thing. My Duncan example was an attempt to get a read on whether this massive LoVe thing on the Web is physical...or something more psychologically complex. Maybe one definition of maturity would be understanding "friendship" material as the true "relationship" material in disguise...but hey, what do I know? I've avoided marriage like the plague thus far. Another point is that "what's fun and attractive as entertainment" isn't necessarily what you look for, or want in Real Life. I mean, sure I like my drama, when I'm watching a drama. The character I find most exciting and attractive on a show is the one I most enjoy watching - the one keeps me glued to the screen, etc. That's why I watch! I don't think there's anything at all unhealthy in that. I do think it translates into real life for some - and yes, that's unhealthy. But definitely not for all - or even most. In real life, you betchya it's about decency and sensitivity. Also - it's about decency and sensitivity - but it's not JUST about that, if you're talking about a mate. You need the emotional connection and physical attraction as well. In young people like Veronica - yes, I agree she's struggling with deciding what's for her, what's most important - following her head, her heart, her libido . . . wondering if it's possible for it all to come together, etc.
|
|
|
Post by Dev(Rob) on Nov 17, 2005 21:20:01 GMT -5
Veronica Mars 2x07 __________________ "Ipod girl" haha. Charisma is back baby oh yeah! Was starting to wonder if i'd see her on this fine television programme again. "My code word will be endurance". oh yes haha. The whole scene with the Dad outside messed with my head. Was he joking with the weed and a foolery comment and what the hell was with that picture? haha the scene with Dick and Charisma Priceless look on Veronica's face. Oh dear, sassy and sexy Charisma *drools* Oh my god that's some child abuse right there Lamb is an asshole but a good guy.
|
|
|
Post by Matthew on Nov 18, 2005 1:22:37 GMT -5
As my computer was playing the episode on the tv for me, my mom, and my dad (who, bizarrely, is also a fan), no stream-of-consciousness posting tonight.
*waits for cheering to die down*
First reaction?
INCREDIBLY well-written, incredibly creepy episode, and the Lady-or-the-Tiger ending is deliberately ambiguous, as is Lamb's morality.
I honestly do not know what I'd do, if I walked in on a naked Charisma Carpenter, were I in a relationship. I hope that I'd have the strength to go "you seem to have misplaced your clothing: it's not in here. Please go" but..... Charisma Carpenter!!!!!!
And what the hell was in that envelope?
And: "so if you want to come by and smoke a jay and fool around. " EXCELLENT look on V's face.. my god!
More in response as I run through the part..
|
|
|
Post by Matthew on Nov 18, 2005 1:24:20 GMT -5
OMG! Girls night? I think there's some hijincks afoot. Now Mrs. Casablancas wants emotion? From a teenager? Cynical much Logan? LOL! No, I think Logan pegged her, spot-on.
|
|
|
Post by Matthew on Nov 18, 2005 1:26:08 GMT -5
Veronica's emails are still "all about Veronica". "When was the last time you had a meal like this." "When I was a Brady." ;D "Maybe we could come live with you." "You know we spend most of the year in Europe." Well. Maybe Kendall ain't as bad as I thought in comparison. Hahahaha!! She bid on Deputy Sachs!!!! ;D Hmmmmmm. An ethical plastic surgeon? OK. What's really wrong with him. Oh wow! Give her a maid outfit. ;D And of course mom cut loose the money so she didn't actually have to, you know, take care of her kids. Man, this town sure spawned a lot of sucky parents. Please tell me they kill their guests. Now, that's every boy's fantasy of an all-girl sleepover. Wow. Kendall is a really sucky liar. How did she ever catch Dick Sr originally? "When the milk stops being free, I stop drinking." Ouch! And so she really does go right for the richer guy in the suite. So, it's Woody's house where they are torturing the kid? But Woody isn't the guy? But he doesn't stop mom? Politely, my hairy white tuchus it is. Women with brains make much more creative playmates.
|
|
|
Post by Matthew on Nov 18, 2005 1:36:42 GMT -5
Things I'm disappointed in: They didn't address Logan's abuse from Daddy Aaron at all. I realize that there was a lot thrown in here but a line, something would have been nice. Other than the parellelism at the Goodman house. Veronica is pretty cold in the bathroom. I can fanwank a lot of stuff going on underneath but damm - cold girl. You broke up with him - he is the one who should be all bitter, not you. The bitterness afflicts both sides, a lot of the time, in a situation like that. She dumped him to distance herself from the fight he was in, not because she didn't care about him: he acted like, well, Logan, in response. So she snarks back to try to keep him from seeing how affected she is, because she doesn't want to be affected. Bitterness comes out as a vicious cycle: and it's an easier trap to fall into than not caring. The opposite of love isn't hate: it's apathy.
|
|
|
Post by Matthew on Nov 18, 2005 4:55:05 GMT -5
As my computer was playing the episode on the tv for me, my mom, and my dad (who, bizarrely, is also a fan), no stream-of-consciousness posting tonight. *waits for cheering to die down* First reaction? INCREDIBLY well-written, incredibly creepy episode, and the Lady-or-the-Tiger ending is deliberately ambiguous, as is Lamb's morality. I honestly do not know what I'd do, if I walked in on a naked Charisma Carpenter, were I in a relationship. I hope that I'd have the strength to go "you seem to have misplaced your clothing: it's not in here. Please go" but..... Charisma Carpenter!!!!!! And what the hell was in that envelope? And: "so if you want to come by and smoke a jay and fool around. " EXCELLENT look on V's face.. my god! More in response as I run through the part.. So, waitaminute: No-one but me saw Lamb's actions at the end to possibly be ambiguous? That he might have gone back to the house to shake them down, not take them down? I know he has layers: I could hear the hatred in his voice when he spoke of his father saying the same thing. But he's proven himself to be quite opportunistic: I could see him privately exacting justice on them, and supplementing his power base: someone else to blackmail. That's why I thought the ending was more ambiguous. *Sigh* and Woody offering Keith the riches of heaven and earth... I don't believe he'd take it: jurisdictional issues would keep him from exercising any real pacifying influence over the community as a whole, and I see that as Keith's goal: justice and tranquility for the po' and the rich alike.
|
|
|
Post by Matthew on Nov 18, 2005 4:58:22 GMT -5
And I think that Little Dick is a seriously sociopathic little bastard: a firebug who burned Logan's house for the fun of it, to get away with it, and stoke the tensions between the PCHers and the 09ers higher, to allow for more violence. I think we're gonna see more and more evidence of his repulsive insanity as the season goes on: we've had tons of it already.
Reminds me of Alec, without the redeeming Beethoven appreciation.
|
|
|
Post by Pixi on Nov 18, 2005 7:47:34 GMT -5
Great episode! So much to absorb, I'm definitely going to have to watch a couple more times. My theory about Duncan & Kendall: I think she gave him a blow job--as indicated by the way she wiped the side of her mouth after leaving his room. There was an article about a month ago, I think in...USA Today, maybe? It was about how many teenagers today don't think oral sex is "real" sex, and it caused quite a stir among some people. Some of the blame for this attitude was being placed on Clinton/Lewinsky affair, and Clinton's assertion that he "did NOT have sexual relations with that woman." But then, oops, it turns out Monica kept the dress, and we all know what happened from there. When Veronica asked Duncan if he felt it was wrong that his friend's stepmom was coming over to visit Logan, Duncan rationalized that it was OK "because she's hot." So, in Duncan's mind, adultery isn't adultery if he can find a loophole. I think getting a blowjob is another one of Duncan's loopholes. In his mind, he didn't have sex, and therefore he didn't cheat on his girlfriend. I have to say - if Duncan did do anything, I would go with blow job too. And Kendall had her hair pulled back in a ponytail when she propositioned Duncan and when she came out of the room her hair was all over the place. Plus - Duncan in a turtleneck could also hide any scratches from Kendall's fingernails. Not that I think the turtleneck is anything other than an attempt to be stealthy, show Duncan's increasing shades of darkness and play to do some funny lines but it's always a possibility. Still I think the loophole comment is very good.
|
|
|
Post by Pixi on Nov 18, 2005 7:51:32 GMT -5
Things I'm disappointed in: They didn't address Logan's abuse from Daddy Aaron at all. I realize that there was a lot thrown in here but a line, something would have been nice. Other than the parellelism at the Goodman house. Veronica is pretty cold in the bathroom. I can fanwank a lot of stuff going on underneath but damm - cold girl. You broke up with him - he is the one who should be all bitter, not you. The bitterness afflicts both sides, a lot of the time, in a situation like that. She dumped him to distance herself from the fight he was in, not because she didn't care about him: he acted like, well, Logan, in response. So she snarks back to try to keep him from seeing how affected she is, because she doesn't want to be affected. Bitterness comes out as a vicious cycle: and it's an easier trap to fall into than not caring. The opposite of love isn't hate: it's apathy. I'm not disputing any of this in the least. I understand completely what is going on. She is just very, very cold most of that scene. And it hurts Logan. I believe there is a lot going on underneath her cold exterior, I was just commenting generally on the tone.
|
|
|
Post by Reetta on Nov 18, 2005 8:22:29 GMT -5
Here’s my incoherent ramble of the week. You must really like me if you read through this because there’s probably no sense to any of this at all. I tend to take things at face value. I am even too lazy to check up the words in dictionaries.
Each week it is like OMG I totally love Cliff! OMG I totally love Dick! And each week it is a new character. This week it is of course OMG I totally love Lamb! As for last week’s Dick love, although I kinda do like Dick it was more about the general Casablancas love than anything else. I find his ability to always say the stupidest thing somehow strangely intriguing but wouldn’t want him to have any bigger role than the one he has now. Naturally, I would take Cliff over Dick anytime.
But seriously (folks), how amazing was that! And by the by, how many references to things not being what they seem can you in one episode? The Pretty Woman references, the outfits, the plastic surgery, smoke, all the “you seem to be the dude nowadays” talk. The plastic surgeon gives Veronica a “Who you are versus who you see?” leaflet? Whoa, that’s rich. And all the covering up, clothes etc. (Duncan and Veronica and others too, the turtlenecks and all ) throughout the whole episode. My first thought of the Big Lebowski scene: Duncan is a leech (and I have always sort of liked him) or maybe it is just that I had sneak peaked into some comments before watching the episode and I was expecting something unpleasant to happen. Duncan’s the man. Um, yeah. That is all. (Just a sidenote, was the “How much easier would your life be if you were indifferent to me?” scene in the previews for this week?) Logan asking for Veronica’s help - goes right up there with the most heartbreaking scenes of the season. Jason Dohring made me cry in, like, two seconds. He’s never been that fast before.
The fundraiser/bachelor auction invite * laughing so hard I can hardly breathe *
What’s up with the Veronica/Gia OMG we could be gal pals forever? Talk about pretentious. Well, we’ll just see how pretentious. It’s a girls’ night from hell.
I almost jumped through the roof when Logan appeared at the Fuller house. Just the fact that Logan and Veronica could have a long scene together – that would be so sweet. I. Want. More. (Well okay, it looked like it could be a longer scene together but still, sweet).
But but.. Mr Fuller and the suggestions? Fool around? WTF?!
Sadie Casablancas seems like a very sensible woman.
That Albert…well, at least I now know that my students are not the only ones who make animal noises. None of the kids are what they look like at first. And aren’t children supposed to be the most honest of us all? The parents have done a pretty “good” job keeping them all restrained, reflecting their own images on them and keep them playing the role they want them to play.
The maid outfit. Well, maybe I am a sick person but for a moment I thought “That’s so tacky and creepy and still a little bit amusing”. I didn’t find the accompanying “I’d like to know you better” line that amusing, though. What is there to say about Grace? She looked like she has to have been in the closet for days.
Lamb with a backstory. Loved the scene. Duh, obviously.
Drug dealing and someone setting Logan up are somehow involved?
These are some creepy sick families and with the “It’s hard to know who keeps their children in the closet” line I knew something even worse was going to happen. Dysfunctional doesn’t even begin to describe it. They all have the need to keep everything so between the lines that nobody seems to be really living at all. The Goodmans – the mother and the son walk like zombies around the house, and around each other. They don’t even seem to be looking at each other when they are talking to each other.
The music in the last scene – it fit there perfectly. I’m not sure if I was able to make out the lyrics of the song though. What was the repeated word at the end? Run, maybe?
I was typing this as I was watching the episode at 5 am today before going to work and after having slept for about two hours. In my weak state of mind, I am going to go ahead and post this. Although I may regret it later.
And now I’m going to watch the episode once again.
|
|
|
Post by Lola m on Nov 18, 2005 8:26:38 GMT -5
I know I miss a lot, trying to watch this show on Thursday mornings. A few thoughts - I get the impression that Lamb was abused by his father? Duncan - I think that it's not the actor, it's the character that's flat. He's, I don't know the clinical term, emotionally shut down. Duncan is using Veronica as a security blanket, as she is using him, and I think there's going to be a blowup of some kind eventually. None of the young males in this show do anything for me; my Mrs Robinson moments are reserved strictly for Xander. Differing tastes, I expect. Total eetah on Duncan. It's his character that is shut down. Flat affect, as the mental health professionals would say. Or, as Veronica would say, he just "stands idly by" a lot of his life. Which makes me wonder how much is due to his particulary type of epilepsy and the drugs he's taking for it; or how much is due to life traumas like Lilly's murder and stressful home or other factors we may not yet have seen; or how much is just his particular personality. My favorite male characters on the show are Wallace, Logan, Weevil, Keith and Cliff. All of them primarily for the character - the personality. Although, if I were to pick the ones that physically are the most "my cup of tea", I'd have to pick Wallace and Weevil. My Logan love comes from being such an angst ho. ;D
|
|
|
Post by Lola m on Nov 18, 2005 8:29:41 GMT -5
Yes - I think it was meant to imply that Lamb had an abusive father also. I like the way however that they didn't do anything to build sympathy for Lamb. We can still hate him. That scene was extremely well done. Yes - I thought that was the very definite intent of Lamb's line about "I heard my father give that speech." Either he himself, or one of his siblings, or both, were abused by dad. Agree - the scene was perfection! You could actually see the moments that Lamb was "getting it". I tend to think that if Veronica had been by herself he would not have ever checked the closet. But Duncan being there - and the way both he and V said things, and particularly the way the father was reacting and his language just suddenly . . . clicked with Lamb. Excellent scene.
|
|