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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 4, 2006 19:46:15 GMT -5
Damned, I used to get my post(s) done by Friday afternoon. Now it is always the weekends at the earliest. White Castle – I was thinking more of what Corny said in Clash of the Tritons. I have now watched the episode four times and I’m back to my rambler days. Good, solid, decent episode. That’s the way I like it. This episode was sharp as a knife. A cutting edge episode. A German nutgasm. OK, enough with the bad puns, but there will lots of squeeing and flailing and everything else you’d expect after an episode like this in the next few paragraphs. I found all the three storylines equally interesting (even if I don’t talk a lot about Keith’s investigating the bus crash storyline). Wallace and Veronica BFF moments were perfect; I couldn’t have asked for more (well, there was that one scene outside the frat party that was a little weird but not talking about it right now). Veronica was more friendly towards Logan. Weevil and Logan were effectively snarky and I adored Francis Capra’s comedic talent in this episode (I do sometimes think he overacts a bit but he was solid here). I most definitely have a newfound (re-found?) interest in Francis Capra. If they thought that they needed to re- sell the Logan and Weevil working together storyline, this episode completely did it. I love the puns in the episode titles. In addition, we got real, actual, unbiased flashbacks. I think it is now safe to say that I am officially in love with Enbom/Kretchmer. If you are judged by the company you keep, the things are not looking bright for our friends here. You might be a member of a group of people who make questionable choices but when the push comes to shove, are you still one of them or are you not (as Weevil once asked)? I guess the question is: What kind of man were you planning on being? We all make our individual choices. Wallace has to re-evaluate some of his decisions in this episode, and even Hector hesitates for the slightest moment at the end as for whether to help Weevil or not. Self-quest is what it is. And a question of whether you can believe in the rules. All groups of people have some sort of rules. You can either keep up with them or make up your own rules. Wallace and Rashard talk about the rules of the game (and their friendship), as do Weevil and the rest of the PCHers. All the games also have rules. Lies will always come out in the end, the blackmailing will end, but the question is: Are you strong enough to endure the pressure? The people you surround yourself are more or less your real family. All the families and “families” in this episode have different kinds of members in them. Yet there is something that pulls them together and something that keeps them together. To which extent can you trust them? How well do you know them to be able to believe in the things they could do? Wallace mentions the single most important person in Rashard’s life (his uncle, who makes most of his decisions for him), Molly talks about the different people in her family. Her family includes twelve hoodlums and one priest. The importance of knowing someone; right down to the heart and core, is emphasized in this episode. Really, why else would we hear a list of all of Wallace’s characteristics etc.? In this episode, Wallace is characterized as honest, innocent and moral. At the beginning of the episode, Wallace has got himself in some very bad company. By the end of the episode, our faith in Wallace is restored, even though some people still might think that they don’t like him. His situation is sort of like Veronica’s, of course, and even though your tormentors always have a way of finding you, the real question is: How well do you know the people around you? There are more parallels between the Wallace storyline and the Weevil/Logan/PCHers storyline than one might think at first. Veronica questions his priorities when it comes to valuing his friendship with Rashard, Weevil and Molly also have a significant conversation about Felix. How well did Weevil know Felix and how well did Molly know him? Do family and its characteristics matter in such cases? Others might feel threatened if you are someone playing in their turf, and they might do everything they can to put you out of the game. It’s true with Wallace and it’s true with Weevil. This might all end up being a blaming game if you do not do anything about it yourself. Gambling and games are mentioned many times in this episode. I’m not entirely convinced if I yet believe that Thumper killed Felix… though it certainly looks that way. The less sure you are about yourself and your own ambitions, the more you need to gamble in order to try to secure your place in a group, and the more other people can play with your insecurities. Thumper does not strike me as the leader type, and he doesn’t seem like much of a planner, or even a decision-maker. Consequently, he has to resort to blackmailing and/or threats, and as we have seen he is also more than ready to put the blame on other people in many cases (I am obviously talking about the bridge flashbacks in Ahoy, Mateys). With Felix’s connection to Molly, he might not have wanted to do something to cover up a thing or another for Thumper, assuming that the PCHers were already dealing with the Fitzpatricks at the time of the bridge scene. Also, almost all of Thumper’s actions are directed to diverting the attention away from himself. Unlike Weevil, who is determined to find the truth even if it means being buddy-buddy with the former enemy, Thumper also usually asks other people to do his dirty business for him. He has to force other people to stay quiet, and doing so he is more and more dependent on other people. This is no good as a long-term strategy. Rashard is not used to making decisions himself, and that is what lands him in a predicament. Wallace, however, decides that he has to do the right thing. Paying someone off usually comes to bite you in the ass sooner or later. It always requires strength of character to do the right thing. As Veronica says, it “is always an uncomfortable moment to see the façade to come off on a supposedly good person”. Wallace is a good person. Still. And no one can blame Weevil for weakness of character. None of the PCHers can actually be characterized as paragons of honesty but never did I think that they’d all be on it. I suspected few of them might be. Working with the enemy. Selling out their brothers. Not sure if any of that made any sense (I am not nearly awake enough to be able to determine that right now). Oh well, moving on. At least Logan’s still got the suite. I really like the Weevil/Logan scene there. Both of their scenes actually, I only have a hard time deciding which one I like more. Weevil looks really bored in the Neptune Grand scene. Hee. Logan has definitely not been focused on anything lately and Weevil’s calling him on it. This happens both at the Grand and in Java the Hut. The make-the-karaoke-machine-wanna-kill-itself-Veronica-I-need-a-favor- night was a total “Where was I again?” scene. They mentioned Logan’s less than pleased attitude with Duncan’s disappearance. The dialogue in that scene had me rolling on the floor, and there was singing. Granted, it was bad. But there was singing about Veronica. Now, I’d like to see Logan singing to Veronica. And with the events of this episode, might not be as impossible as it sounds. Where was I again? “He ate your peanut butter and now you are not speaking”. Hee. Followed by,“If we are seen together, that would be bad”. I love FC’s delivery of the lines. Hee. And the face. Hee. Double hee. “Can you just once save my ass without a comment?” That almost sounded like an apology. Hell, I’d believe anything that man says when he uses that voice. Where was I? As I said, I’d like to see Veronica be more friendly towards Logan and she’s at least willing to help. Maybe progress was made. Other things: One of the most powerful moments in the episode was the one with no dialogue. It was a short scene but Weevil riding the bus to school at the end just told so much about where he is right now. What’s up with the jealousy thing with the random customers in Java the Hut? I don’t get it. I guess those two guys (Rick and Lawrence, I think) might look a bit alike. That’s about the triangle? Is one of them wearing a green shirt and the other a blue one? I assume Weevil and Logan just got that man singing as for not to make anyone suspicious of their discussion with Veronica. Other than that, I’ve got nothing. Good thoughts there Reeta, thanks for sharing them. On the "jealousy thing," my thought on that scene was that it fit with the whole "getting off on the talents of others" thing - and the repeated mention of "talent" and the idea of what is the proper and improper use of same - enjoying the "fruits of your success," as Monte says. Talent attracts others - it can bring money or fame (like for Rashad) or it can attract the opposite sex (like for Rashad and Jackie's "dubious talent, and for the singer). There's talk of talent in the ep, and I thought this was part of that. Loved the "smellologist" line! Actually, I don't remember him either, and I've seen all of them.
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 4, 2006 19:52:21 GMT -5
Spring, you did it again! Great review! You peel back the layers and find all the important connections. In Rob Thomas' world, exploring the difference between right and wrong is such a slippery slope, because in his universe it seems that almost no one is *really* good, and those who are considered bad might just have a good side to them after all. (I'm thinking of Logan and Weevil here) I was really concerned that this ep would show some weaknesses in Wallace's character, and I'm happy to be wrong about that. He drives his own car, and he almost always knows when to listen to his head and heart. That was evident in early Season 1, when he told Veronica, "You should hear what other people say about you," but he never hesitated about being her friend. In fact, he is the one who continually sought her out when she still had her emotional walls up. I guess the only character flaw Wallace has is how he always tries to see the positive side to everything: he claims Rashard is "cool" and he thinks it's "good" when Cliff tells him he has 5 days to surrender or clear his innocence. But then again, he is definitely cautious about letting Jackie back into his life, so he's not a total Pollyanna. Agree. Wallace is a positive person in the best sense. He endeavors to keep a good attitude and see the silver lining - but in a realistic way. He's an optimist, but he doesn't wear rose-colored glasses - he's not, as you say, "Pollyanna." No doubt all our main characters will have their episodes in the sun. And for Wallace himself, the journey to manhood isn't over. He's still young and learning and forming, but he made great progress in this episode. As always, thanks for the feedback, Fotada!
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Post by Rob on Feb 5, 2006 8:50:23 GMT -5
S'cubies!! Veronica Mars fans! My review is now available for your enjoyment!Enjoyed the review I did. Agreed on virtually every point, which is a testament to the clarity of vision in this episode. In the moral quagmire that is life in Neptune, Wallace is as close to being untouched by evil as anyone. Now that I think about it, I'd be willing to bet that a teenaged Keith Mars was much like Wallace. Goes a long way toward explaining why Veronica was drawn to him, even in her darkest days of Season 1. Another thing I continue to think about, but haven't expressed publicly 'til now: in the season premiere, Veronica is about to board the ill-fated bus when an apparition of Lily deflects her attention, leading her to...Weevil. Was this coincidental? Was Lily merely trying to save Veronica's life, or was it...something more? I still haven't fully connected the dots, since we don't have the whole puzzle...but Weevil and Curly's connection leads me to believe Weevil is in possession of vital information, whether he knows it or not. I can't bring myself to think Weevil is somehow directly involved with the crash. We've been given little evidence that he's capable of mass murder on that scale. The Brothers Casablancas, however, are another story. We need a motive. Once we get that, we'll have our murderer. It's smellementary.
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Post by Pixi on Feb 5, 2006 12:13:47 GMT -5
Ohh - I love the opening thought with all the examples of what people were called in the episode.
What an excellent point! And Logan, Weevil are all on the same path as Wallace.
I also think the Murrays line was a clear reference to Logan and Veronica's future. The Murrays got back together? How did that happen? The mystery of love.
Oh Spring - I like this. I like this very much. I'm not sure about Woody - he seems to be painted in very broad "look at me I'm evil" clothes, so that makes me want to think he is a giant red herring. But with all the incorporating of the city, don't ride the Bus Gia and then the little my son is being abused episode - obviously he is a part of something.
Sports/gambling corruption. Real estate property scams - Casablancas - lots of evil entities being thrown into the mix.
And oh how much fun it is to debate the mystery and not the comababy. I am so happy to be reading this kind of analysis.
I do like the way Rob said through Keith - the first part doesn't make much sense but the second part ties it all together - (Keith talking about they who trespass) and to me (Rob talking about the first part of the season and the second part).
Terrific review Spring. You have such a unique way of reviewing things - something I noticed in your wonderful Buffy reviews. You have the ability to tie themes together that have the reader going duh - why didn't I see that.
A wonderful read as always. Bravo!
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Feb 5, 2006 12:29:41 GMT -5
Never been to Whitecastle, but want to.
Sneaky Keith. Good detective.
Patrick Fitzpatrick. Groan.
Catholic Church. Yeah.
Rashard and Uncle, Fitzpatricks.
Veronica/Logan/Weevil scene. Logan's hurt that Duncan left without saying anything.
Keith figured out why the rat! Neat!
"Do I feel guilty about this? Yes, but fortunately that's what this place was made for." Hee.
A black fraternity. Lordy, lordy Veronica. Do your homework.
Poor Wallace. He really was into Jackie, too. ETA: Oh, she's playing him! fake out paralleling Veronica and Duncan last episode.
Wallace as the rat.
Wallace made a sad looking sandwich.
Mutiny.
Weevil's great.
Everyone but Veronica knew who Curly was.
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Post by Sue on Feb 5, 2006 12:33:19 GMT -5
RANT:
So, you all know by now that VM was pre-empted here last week for basketball.
Rae is writing the review for this coming Wed's episode since it is again pre-empted. But it appears they couldn't line up a b-ball game and instead are showing in that time slot:
A Beauty and the Geek: REPEAT.
Oh the horror. Insult to injury. This makes NO sense to me whatsoever. None.
I WILL be calling the local affiliate tomorrow and going Dark Willow on them.
Sheesh.
=====================================
Oh yeah. Watched the episode. Want to comment, read Spring's review and comment again. Hopefully Steeler's will be 50 points ahead at half time so lots of extra time. ;D ====
Board says we've got 5 folks viewing the VM thread.
Wave.
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Post by zimshan on Feb 5, 2006 12:50:32 GMT -5
WOW, Spring. You did it again. Pulled the whole ep together under one string. Just excellent. I pulled out a couple of my favorite points... What makes a man a man, instead of an animal? I’d say what separates us from our fellow creatures is our ability to make conscious, deliberate choices
AH! I had noticed those animal references and wondered. Relating it back with the theme of making choices. Lovely, just lovely. Notice the central question that the authorities are trying to answer: “Who was driving?” There are many images of cars and driving, much talk of the accident that happened while Rashard was driving, and we watch as the limo driver nearly has an accident. So - who was in control?
DRIVING! Hey, it goes back to the ‘Driver Ed’ ep! Neat! I had done this whole review about who’s driving, who’s in control for that one. Good times… Hey, so maybe we will see Uncle Rucker again. As a sports guy, in the same episode where Terrence Cook is under suspecion for the bus crash? Ah, grabbing at straws, but that guy was entertaining. I think it'd be a shame to waste him... We watch many people eating and drinking, or rejecting food. And we watch them listening carefully to the words of others, or asking them to keep it all to themselves – LOTS of the latter:
Hmm. Now this is what makes it seem like blackmailing is at the center of the season mystery. Along with conspiracies, I'm thinking there's a lot of people who know little bits of info they must keep their mouth shut about. This whole mystery feels huge.... We see two books whose words have been cut out, to make room for other things. People are choosing to take it in, or they are deciding to keep it out.
Ah, now that is quite lovely. And hey, it works with the cake too! Sorry I like the cake fun… I think this is about the episode’s overall exploration of the need to be careful to examine what you’re being served before you consume, and what you’re serving up, before you offer it.
Holy moly! Knock me flat on the floor! You related the whole ep over to ratburgers! Ah ha! That’s the crux of it: YES, you should help those in need. But NO, you shouldn’t act contrary to what your own values, to what your mind and heart are telling you. Do it, but do it in the way that feels right to you.
SOO soo good! I love how you wrote this. Not just that you related everything under the sun into one overarching theme, but the words. The way everything is phrased. Just lovely... And we get a shot of Thumper, standing above it all, as Weevil is beaten.
Oh, I loved how they chose to do that. A good bout of directing there… Felix’s murder and the bus crash seem to be connected – through Curly Moran. We now know that Weevil, Felix’s friend and leader, was so angry at Curly, not long before the crash, that he was driven to brutally beat him. They also seem to have a connection through the presence of a PCHer – Cervando, on the bus.
Yes, my feelings exactly. The link that holds them together definitely seems to be Curly. And when you look at it all, it comes down to Veronica, Weevil, and Logan. They all know things that the other one is not privy too, and if this is all connected, my feeling is, the only way it will get solved is when they start working together. This MIGHT take a while though. And let me close with something that just kept striking me in this episode: Good golly – Weevil sure has pretty eyes!
That he does. Oh, and Sue, I DID read your review, and I hope to comment on it sometime today in the DR thread. I read it just before I watched the next ep and so I didn't pull out some parts to quote and respond to like I usually do. But I just want to take my time with responding because I really, really loved it. You managed to take a highly controversial ep and stand on rational level ground with a fresh new viewpoint, which is just an amazing feat. And I should probably stop now because then this will turn into my comment but just know I did read it and will be commenting soon. I just have to go to lab first.
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 5, 2006 18:19:18 GMT -5
S'cubies!! Veronica Mars fans! My review is now available for your enjoyment!Enjoyed the review I did. Agreed on virtually every point, which is a testament to the clarity of vision in this episode. In the moral quagmire that is life in Neptune, Wallace is as close to being untouched by evil as anyone. Yes - Veronica really needs Wallace. Along with dad, he helps her stay away from the edge. Yes - I think there may be significance to the fact that it is Weevil presence that leads to Veronica not getting on the bus . . . but I don't know what to make of it, really, at this point. Agree. No way Weevil is responsible for the bus crash. I tend to think Cassidy is an innocent, here. He can be a little sarcastic at times, but that seems to be the extent of his evil. Dick . . . the boy is definitely off. How far off though . . . hard to say. Thanks for the feedback, Rob!
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 5, 2006 18:37:06 GMT -5
Ohh - I love the opening thought with all the examples of what people were called in the episode. What an excellent point! And Logan, Weevil are all on the same path as Wallace. Thanks for the positive feedback, Pixi. Yes - Logan, Weevil, and also, Veronica, are on the path to adulthood. I think Wallace is ahead of them somewhat - due to a calmer nature, and also due to what sounds like it was a more solid upbringing. Oh - interesting theory. I do think we'll be revisiting the Logan-Veronica pairing - for some reason, I'm thinking it will be when we least expect it. Yes - I worry about Woody being "too obvious," too. I noticed you brought up, in one of your other posts, the question as to why Don wouldn't have suspected Woody after the interview with Gia. I was thinking that Don might have questioned Woody on this, but bought an explanation from Woody along the lines of . . . "I'd heard that it stank and was uncomfortable, so I thought I'd find her another way home," or something like that. One thing about Don - he can be easily led (kinda like a lamb) - as we saw last season. I don't know what to make of this . . . one thing I forgot to mention in my review was that Mr Moss was a JOURNALISM teacher. Surely, he might have had contacts in the local media. Could he have been ready to expose Terrence? Could he have been trying to blackmail him? But it has to be more than that. I don't buy the idea that someone had 7 people killed instead of just killing "the one" they really wanted. There has to be a reason that it was done the way it was. Yes - I had the same thought . . . the the second half of the season was going to pull it together for us. Thank you!!
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 5, 2006 18:38:55 GMT -5
RANT: So, you all know by now that VM was pre-empted here last week for basketball. Rae is writing the review for this coming Wed's episode since it is again pre-empted. But it appears they couldn't line up a b-ball game and instead are showing in that time slot: A Beauty and the Geek: REPEAT. Oh the horror. Insult to injury. This makes NO sense to me whatsoever. None. I WILL be calling the local affiliate tomorrow and going Dark Willow on them. Sheesh. ===================================== Oh yeah. Watched the episode. Want to comment, read Spring's review and comment again. Hopefully Steeler's will be 50 points ahead at half time so lots of extra time. ;D ==== Board says we've got 5 folks viewing the VM thread. Wave. A Beauty & The Geek repeat?? Are they daft?
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 5, 2006 18:49:52 GMT -5
WOW, Spring. You did it again. Pulled the whole ep together under one string. Just excellent. I pulled out a couple of my favorite points... What makes a man a man, instead of an animal? I’d say what separates us from our fellow creatures is our ability to make conscious, deliberate choices
AH! I had noticed those animal references and wondered. Relating it back with the theme of making choices. Lovely, just lovely. Notice the central question that the authorities are trying to answer: “Who was driving?” There are many images of cars and driving, much talk of the accident that happened while Rashard was driving, and we watch as the limo driver nearly has an accident. So - who was in control?
DRIVING! Hey, it goes back to the ‘Driver Ed’ ep! Neat! I had done this whole review about who’s driving, who’s in control for that one. Good times… Hey, so maybe we will see Uncle Rucker again. As a sports guy, in the same episode where Terrence Cook is under suspecion for the bus crash? Ah, grabbing at straws, but that guy was entertaining. I think it'd be a shame to waste him... Hi, zimshan. Thanks for the great feedback. I too loved Uncle Rucker! The actor was just great. I especially loved his exchange with the limo driver. Yes - it does feel huge. We saw Don squeeze Terrence for a donation, using the gambling secret - so we know Terrence is very much into hiding his secret. By itself, it's just not enough though. When Veronica mentioned rat lips and feet in hot dogs, and with the title of the ep being what it was, all I could think was: Ratburgers! With the church images, I thought the scene was very "Christ-figure" for Weevil. He identifies his "Judas" (Thumper) and they all desert him . . . he's hanging on that hook . . . He really does. Sue did a really great job with difficult subject matter. She hit nail after nail on the head.
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Post by Lola m on Feb 5, 2006 21:02:54 GMT -5
Random thoughts on this ep, semi-organized. The main theme of the show seemed to be trust and betrayal: - Veronica has to earn her father's trust back
- Wallace trusts Veronica with his future
- Jackie has to earn Wallace' and Veronica's trust back
- Weevil is betrayed by his fellow gang members
- Wallace is betrayed by his friend Rashard
The other theme was guilt and penance: - Wallace feels guilt over not immediately doing the right thing and reporting the hit & run
- Veronica feels guilt over bugging the confessional and not always doing things on the up & up, "God-wise" (Fr. Pat advises, "Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.")
- The Murrays reconciled, which Keith guesses is due to the mystery of love, but Veronica says, "A million dollar 'sorry-I-banged-the-maid' ring would be mine."
Very nicely laid out, Fotada! I hadn't really thought about how themes of guilt and making up for that guilt wove their way thru this ep as well. And they fit so nicely with the ideas of betrayal and trust. Ooooooh! Clever clever you to spot these!!! I'm so glad you made a point of all the characters who knew Curly. Because Keith talks to Veronica primarily about the rat, it's easy to kind of gloss over that aspect of the interview tapes. But when you add those conversations to Thumper's blackmail of Weevil over Curly's beating, well . . . We got lots of new data to chew over.[/quote] Yep!
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Post by Linda on Feb 6, 2006 5:22:02 GMT -5
Yay Spring!!! #bid# ** Your excellent analysis impressed me as always. I apologize that I don't have the braincells to list everything that I liked about it, so just let me say: #bid#***. Linda, Yay Wallace! Awww, Weevil. ** The bowing smiley in no way indicates that I have signed up as your minion. *** Really. ;D 11 Although if you'd like me to keep Spike distracted while you look into Weevil's pretty eyes, I'm willing help you out.
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 6, 2006 12:26:17 GMT -5
Yay Spring!!! ** Your excellent analysis impressed me as always. I apologize that I don't have the braincells to list everything that I liked about it, so just let me say: ***. Thank you, Linda! Take your time. I don't want you rushing into it. Thanks, but I am good at multi-tasking.
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Post by Michelle on Feb 6, 2006 12:47:25 GMT -5
Things that made me go hmmmm: - Rashard says to Wallace: "You gotta try to rat me out like that?"
- Uncle Monte says to Wallace: "He's a good boy with a lot on his mind and he doesn't need a little rat like you messing with his head."
Ooooooh! Clever clever you to spot these!!! Thanks, Lola! #wavey# But... To satisfy my own curiousity, I re-watched the season opener, and Wallace never planned to be on the bus; he only expressed surprise that Veronica was going on the field trip. So the rat comments weren't clues. Or if they are clues, they clued me in to the wrong thing!
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