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Post by Lola m on Mar 16, 2006 8:24:16 GMT -5
maybe or maybe not, just a thought, but didnt jackie say the hangar belonged to Woody! His hanger, His explosives! I gotta think it is all starting to point to Woody! somehow he is behind this. He may not have actually detonated the bomb...but he could have hired someone to do it.....curly perhaps. IMO Oooh, coming back to this post again, 'cuz I had to say: what if he hired Curly to do it, but didn't really tell him what was gonna happen. That all these kids would die. And when Curly saw what did happen, he felt bad (wasn't he at the roadside memorials - didn't V see him there?) and he wanted to tell someone. So, somehow he talked to, like maybe Weevil, who suggested Veronica. But he didn't tell Weevil why, and they got into a fight. And then maybe Woody got word that Curly was gonna talk so he had him killed. Oooh! By a Fitzpatrick! Or maybe Thumper! And Weevil thinks he did it, 'cuz he beat Curly up. 'Cuz that would make for a nice parallel to Logan and make their alliance even more understandable. Plus, it would be a cool plot thingee. Um. And now I'm really running off into never-never-land, aren't I?
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Post by Lola m on Mar 16, 2006 8:27:11 GMT -5
Solidly plotted, well-acted episode. So much so that I won't even grouse too much about Wallace's absence. If keeping Percy out of a few installments saves enough money to keep this show on the air until it finds its well-deserved audience, I'll gladly accept the sacrifice. Plus, watching Jackie and Veronica bond through their Wallace basketball-fandom (picturing Veronica with a giant foam finger makes me chuckle) was enough to get me through. I never know what to think about Logan. Sometimes I want to go through the screen and smack him for using this girl in such cavalier fashion. Other times I find myself wondering if he's starting to legitimately feel something for Hannah despite his original manipulative intent. He didn't really have to hold hands with her at the end of this episode; the excuse he provided Hannah for his public insensitivity was plausible enough. Of course, the public acknowledgement might've just been Logan's way of closing the deal, too. I'm leaning toward that, I think. I get what Logan is doing from a strategic standpoint, but I have to wonder if he realizes the potential reprecussions. My guess would be no; Logan is a clearly a desperate young man who feels increasingly cornered and alone. To his way of thinking, Hannah is an afterthought. Sure, the girl will be emotionally hurt, but Logan's looking at long-term jail time. Using Hannah is nothing in grand scheme of things. And hey! From his perspective, the plan is coming together nicely: he now officially has a strong ally in the enemy's camp. Hannah's primed to go to great lengths to clear Logan's name....which is what really scares me. There's a real possibility that something bad happens to Hannah as a result of Logan pulling her into the middle. Desperate Coke-Fiend Daddy + Fitzpatricks = serious danger. I'm not sure Logan is thinking that far ahead - right now, he's all about self-preservation - but someone should clue him in. Hopefully Veronica will at least try. **nods to all of this** I too think he is feeling a bit more for Hannah than he thought he would. There was just something about the way he looked at her a few times. And as you said, mostly, he is just desperate to save himself. I have the feeling Veronica is gonna take a swing at (possibly literally) making him understand the real impact of what he's doing.
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Post by Rob on Mar 16, 2006 8:47:49 GMT -5
I too think he is feeling a bit more for Hannah than he thought he would. There was just something about the way he looked at her a few times. And as you said, mostly, he is just desperate to save himself. I have the feeling Veronica is gonna take a swing at (possibly literally) making him understand the real impact of what he's doing. I thought the first sign of genuine emotion from Logan came out after Hannah learned of her father's lies. Logan's going to empathize with feelings of parental betrayal instinctively, no matter how manipulative his original intent.
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Post by Pixi on Mar 16, 2006 9:11:18 GMT -5
I'm going to post my reaction - copied from LJ before I read anyone else's responses. Going from past shows I have the impression that since I found the episode mostly bland - the board probably loves it. Hee - I'm such a rebel. Anyway - my initial thoughts:
Anticipation. Anticipation is making me wait. It's keeping me wa - a - iting. Carly Simon may have sang it but it seems like we've all been living it through this long hiatus.
And well was it worth waiting for? Well yes in that it was Veronica Mars. And look there's Corny and Carmen and the Ahoy Mateys guy. And that guy that was all don't touch my car Dude with Weevil. (Kyle and um . . . what's the other guys name? I really need to write these things down). And Dick - Dick was superb with his Rich Dude Cryptonite line and am I the only one who sees Dick, sees he has a t-shirt on and am all - ohhh what's it say this time? There's a U in Ugly - hee, hee. Okay, okay. Also Lamb. Say what you like about Muhvey - for, against or just meh he was terrific in that scene last night. "Seems like a lot of work". Snerk, snerk.
So there were moments of goodness. And yes - the parellel between Logan and Veronica's relationships was nicely drawn. And I do like the fact that I think the audience is getting that Logan is playing Hannah. He knows he's playing Hannah, he hates that he's playing her and yet he won't stop. I also think it's pretty obvious he planted the cocaine. (pretty weak finding the cocaine scene too - oh look it's my potentially evil father's bathroom. Drawing on all my mad Nancy Drew detective skills, I find the evidence - in the first place I look. Oh no - Ned, Ned - I mean Logan, you were right. My Dad is bad and I'm so sad. Only my strong, stalwart, nose kissing boyfriend can save the day).
But the MOTW - so bland and boring. It's Brokeback at Neptune only instead of gay cowboys we have lesbian cheerleaders. Mkay - could have worked with a strong guest star. Kristin Cavelleri - Oh my God (to channel Janice from Friends) she was sooooooooooo bad. Hmmm - I think I need a few more o's there. She was soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo bad. I mean laughably bad. Takes the crown from Paris Hilton as worse Guest star on Veronica Mars ever bad. That's how bad she was. And what a creep - outing her girlfriend because she wanted to walk down the hall with her. I hope her girlfriend dumps her in a publicly humiliating way.
Corny was great - but then Corny always rules. Loved the Mr. Cho's pizza tie in and anguished gay boy (um sorry I don't remember the name and am too lazy to go look for it right now) did his anguished gay routine again nicely. I enjoyed Mac's stonewalling of Veronica and I loved the PCHer wannabe all taped up to the streetlight. Hee, hee.
"Don't tug on Superman's cape, Don't spit into the wind. Don't pull the mask off the ol Lone Ranger and don't mess around with Ronny"
To channel Jim Croce. (I couldn't put Veronica in there and Mars didn't seem personal enough)
Jackie and Veronica's continued path toward friendship is being nicely handled and oooooo big build up at the end. Woody's garage, Terence's cars - who is the baddie? Da da dum. (Woody may be part of it but can't be the mastermind and Terence - simply playing the role of Red Herring Number 1 right now).
I liked seeing Carmen. I enjoy the way Rob makes the town and high school real by reusing characters. Very nice.
Veronica's reaction on seeing Logan with a girl - not much. Well until she realized it was Dr. Plastic Surgeon's daughter. Nice reveal there.
Overall - a very bland episode. Good bland but bland. But that's okay - I'll take my Veronica Mars anyway I can get it. Well - except served with Donuts.
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Post by Pixi on Mar 16, 2006 9:21:10 GMT -5
Solidly plotted, well-acted episode. So much so that I won't even grouse too much about Wallace's absence. If keeping Percy out of a few installments saves enough money to keep this show on the air until it finds its well-deserved audience, I'll gladly accept the sacrifice. Plus, watching Jackie and Veronica bond through their Wallace basketball-fandom (picturing Veronica with a giant foam finger makes me chuckle) was enough to get me through. I never know what to think about Logan. Sometimes I want to go through the screen and smack him for using this girl in such cavalier fashion. Other times I find myself wondering if he's starting to legitimately feel something for Hannah despite his original manipulative intent. He didn't really have to hold hands with her at the end of this episode; the excuse he provided Hannah for his public insensitivity was plausible enough. Of course, the public acknowledgement might've just been Logan's way of closing the deal, too. I'm leaning toward that, I think. I get what Logan is doing from a strategic standpoint, but I have to wonder if he realizes the potential reprecussions. My guess would be no; Logan is a clearly a desperate young man who feels increasingly cornered and alone. To his way of thinking, Hannah is an afterthought. Sure, the girl will be emotionally hurt, but Logan's looking at long-term jail time. Using Hannah is nothing in grand scheme of things. And hey! From his perspective, the plan is coming together nicely: he now officially has a strong ally in the enemy's camp. Hannah's primed to go to great lengths to clear Logan's name....which is what really scares me. There's a real possibility that something bad happens to Hannah as a result of Logan pulling her into the middle. Desperate Coke-Fiend Daddy + Fitzpatricks = serious danger. I'm not sure Logan is thinking that far ahead - right now, he's all about self-preservation - but someone should clue him in. Hopefully Veronica will at least try. **nods to all of this** I too think he is feeling a bit more for Hannah than he thought he would. There was just something about the way he looked at her a few times. And as you said, mostly, he is just desperate to save himself. I have the feeling Veronica is gonna take a swing at (possibly literally) making him understand the real impact of what he's doing. I'll agree that Logan has developed some feelings. He is still using/manipulating Hannah but it is starting to hurt him and I agree that taking her hand was a sign of this. I don't think it will stop him and I still don't blame him. He's going to go to jail, his life will be ruined and no one is helping him. He's all alone (well unless Weevil is still in this mix) and he's doing whatever he can. Hannah will recover from a broken heart. That's normal at 15. But it's kind of hard to recover from a conviction for murder/manslaughter - whatever they end up charging him with.
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Post by Pixi on Mar 16, 2006 9:24:04 GMT -5
Awwwww, Logan and his convenient new woobie. Who not only looks about 12 years old but also looks scarily like Veronica from a distance . . . Terrance and the lack of alibi. Which is less suspicious than a carefully created alibi. Unless you know that, in which case . . . Blackmail again. Why was he carrying the names around with him? You know what's funny about this. Someone saw the macking at the front door scene being filmed - from a distance and went on EOnline chat board and was all - hey Veronica and Logan are kissing again in episode 16. They're back together or having hot macking time. Joy in LoVeland. Course when the spoilers came out for this episode she had to sheepishly come back on and say - um I guess it was Hannah, she just looked like Veronica from a distance. Hee, hee. And yes - 12 at the most. I know numerous dance students that age who look older than her.
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Post by Pixi on Mar 16, 2006 9:26:49 GMT -5
Clever daughter. Checked dad's phone and the medicine cabinet. Man. That guy's an idiot. Leaves all kinds of evidence around. She's the blackmailer? Wow! Logan was in that bathroom. I completely believe he planted the cocaine. Remember the cocaine he got earlier in that episode with Weevil. I can believe the phone log wasn't planted (and what phone log says Fitzpatricks? They should have put a name with it to make it more realistic).
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Post by Pixi on Mar 16, 2006 9:29:18 GMT -5
I also thought it was interesting that we see the return of Carmen in this episode. I just watched "M.A.D." last night, so it's all fresh in my mind. Carmen offered Veronica another view of "revenge" in that episode, that you don't always have to bring the person down with you, you don't have to do "anything" to get back at someone, or get out of the situation you're in. Now we see the other extreme, with someone willing to do anything to escape Neptune, including outing those who trusted her, including the woman she loves. So, we have Carmen taking the high road, Veronica taking the middle road, and Kelly(?) taking the low road. Versatile toppings indeed. I agree - Carmen did a good job and that scene was nicely played. I had read from the Austin recaps that she was coming back this year and I just love the way we see how this is a real community - not one with new people wandering by every day. Nice take on the Versatile Toppings title. I think her name is Kylie.
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Post by Pixi on Mar 16, 2006 9:30:04 GMT -5
Logan with his puppy eyes. Awwwww. That man gives good puppy eyes! ;D Too bad they're being directed at the wrong person. I'm needing some Logan and Veronica interaction/snarkage, stat! ;D Well the previews for next week have a lot of Logan/Veronica interaction so it looks like your wishes may soon be granted.
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Post by raenstorm on Mar 16, 2006 10:18:43 GMT -5
Here's my quick "first reaction" post about the episode. I took seven pages of notes, though, so I'm sure I'll be back with more once I get my thoughts in some semblance of order.
First I must say, since I know how the title of this episode came about, it totally makes my brain go to a very naughty place.
My reaction to the episode: Meh. I'm happy to see my show back and, yes, there were bits and pieces that I adored. Overall, though, it wasn't a stellar episode for me. If I'm honest, though, I have to admit that I guarantee that my feelings about this episode are a direct result of being spoiled by someone else's thoughts on it. My expectations were that it would only be a so-so episode. I'm sure there are ways it could have exceeded that expectation but I can't think of them right now so I think I was doomed not to love it before I even sat down to watch. That being said, this is Veronica Mars so you know I still liked a lot of things and have plenty to discuss.
I fooled for a bit, I kept expecting Weevil to have something to do with the muggings. I never suspected he had anything to do with the blackmail but the rims thing seemed suspicious, especially since Kelly was the same guy who tried to buy drugs off of him previously and he'd been eying his rims at that time. With the newly acquired car, I wouldn't have put it past him. Once Kelly's part was revealed, I realized how faulty my thinking was because Weevil probably has easy access to nicer rims and it'd be hard to show up at school with stolen rims on his car and get away with it.
Speaking of... remember how I said blackmail keeps showing up? And now we get an episode where the MoTW centers around the concept AND Keith tries to blackmail Lamb himself? Not to mention Logan basically trying to blackmail Dr. Griffith with Hannah. Uh. I know it has already played a part in the bus crash (at least in expanding our list of suspects) but I'm betting it might play an even bigger part.
I realized last night that I need to chart/list out what we know about the bus crash. The pieces are starting to come together but, when you're working on a 5000 piece jigsaw puzzle, you can't really start to see where the connections are until you've spread them about so you can see them all clearly. There was a lot of little information buried in the details of this episode: the day of the bus crash, the exact time it went over the cliff, another student on the bus, etc. Plus, we got more information on the Fitzpatricks and proof that they aren't always the ones calling the shots. That muddies up the water even more.
Then there's Logan and Hannah. Kudos to the writers for not drawing out that reveal. There's no doubt in my mind that Logan was lying about not knowing who she was at the carnival and, while I get why he had to say that, I'm annoyed that the writers have stirred up that pot again because I can see the fan arguments about it a mile away. I'm not sure what to think about the cokehead accusations. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we have no proof that he's telling the truth about that do we? I need to go back and look at what he and Veronica learned about the good doctor in NBiaC. Perhaps I missed something.
If we don't have proof that he's telling the truth, there's a possibility he planted the coke for Hannah to find. We know he used the bathroom so he had the opportunity and it seems a bit suspicious that he encouraged her to look around the house to see if she could find evidence that he was telling the truth. He either knew it was there because he found it himself or he put it there. Jason's portrayal was a bit ambiguous so I can't quite tell what to think. Logan is devious enough that he was purposely "hiding" their relationship because it would mean they'd couldn't be seen in public which would come close to guaranteeing him a chance to get into Dr. Griffiths' house. He conveniently presses to spend time with her on the weekend that she's there instead of at her mom's (and, if he knows who she is, he knows about the divorce and the custody details) and it's not until after he's assured that she'll be on his side that he is willing to openly be with her at school. Oh, sure, it looked like a genuine moment where he feels bad for what he's forced her to discover about her Dad but it's all a bit too... perfect for me. Plus, Logan is complicated enough that it's possible there is some genuine emotion in there but that doesn't mean I'm ready to believe it all just happened to fall into place for him. The dude has never had that kind of luck.
I did love how Veronica discovers who Hannah is and the look on her face. Though I don't think she gave a visual reaction to seeing Logan with a girl, I do think the fact that she even asked Mac who she was proves she was curious. Veronica had a very strong reaction to Logan's involvement with Kendall which definitely had heavy overtones of jealousy. However, there's a big difference between Kendall and Hannah. I don't think Veronica would find Hannah all that threatening. So, I never expected to see her get jealous in the same way. It's the implication of what Logan is doing that would bother her and I was happy to see that turn out to be true. Logan doesn't have to worry about Veronica interfering with his plans, though, now that Hannah knows most of the truth. He's already laid the groundwork and Veronica's too late to stop that.
I need to get back to work so more on the MoTW, continuity crack, and Mac/Veronica goodness later.
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Post by raenstorm on Mar 16, 2006 11:04:17 GMT -5
Oh... was reading something over at LJ and reminded that I was going to share a little comment from Austin. Michael had told us about a scene he just filmed where he kept trying to sneak something by the producers. He had to count down three things and he counted backwards so he'd end up with one finger pointing and he did it so that finger was his middle finger. He had done it several times before Dan Etheridge finally came "down" onto the set and asked the others if they even noticed what Michael was doing. They hadn't noticed it at all but Dan told him to knock it off... So, when I saw the scene last night, I laughed and noted that he still managed to pull it off - even if it wasn't quite how he intended, it still comes across that way:
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Post by Rob on Mar 16, 2006 11:31:39 GMT -5
I'll agree that Logan has developed some feelings. He is still using/manipulating Hannah but it is starting to hurt him and I agree that taking her hand was a sign of this. I don't think it will stop him and I still don't blame him. He's going to go to jail, his life will be ruined and no one is helping him. He's all alone (well unless Weevil is still in this mix) and he's doing whatever he can. Hannah will recover from a broken heart. That's normal at 15. But it's kind of hard to recover from a conviction for murder/manslaughter - whatever they end up charging him with. We have to hope that's all that will happen to Hannah.
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Post by Karen on Mar 16, 2006 11:39:49 GMT -5
Hee, hee. Funny about Lamb sneaking in the bird, Rae. Are you also going to spill what you know about how the title came about? I was interrupted for part of the episode, so I still have to rewatch, but I got the definite vibe - and agree with you and Pixi - that Logan probably planted the coke in those bandaids. And yes Pixi, that was totally lame how Hannah found it so quickly.
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Post by Pixi on Mar 16, 2006 11:41:10 GMT -5
Oh... was reading something over at LJ and reminded that I was going to share a little comment from Austin. Michael had told us about a scene he just filmed where he kept trying to sneak something by the producers. He had to count down three things and he counted backwards so he'd end up with one finger pointing and he did it so that finger was his middle finger. He had done it several times before Dan Etheridge finally came "down" onto the set and asked the others if they even noticed what Michael was doing. They hadn't noticed it at all but Dan told him to knock it off... So, when I saw the scene last night, I laughed and noted that he still managed to pull it off - even if it wasn't quite how he intended, it still comes across that way: I completely noticed that and thought hee!! MM has really had a blast this year hasn't he?
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Post by raenstorm on Mar 16, 2006 13:00:41 GMT -5
Hee, hee. Funny about Lamb sneaking in the bird, Rae. Are you also going to spill what you know about how the title came about? I was interrupted for part of the episode, so I still have to rewatch, but I got the definite vibe - and agree with you and Pixi - that Logan probably planted the coke in those bandaids. And yes Pixi, that was totally lame how Hannah found it so quickly. Oops, sorry! It's not all that interesting to be honest. Rob and Dan Etheridge had been talking about something and Dan used a gay/lesbian term, negotiable top (which means exactly what you think it means). Rob kept hearing it wrong and thinking he was saying versatile top. It became a joke between them so when they had a episode about outing gays and pizza muggings, he just knew he had to title it "Versatile Toppings".
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