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Post by Pixi on Mar 23, 2006 9:18:45 GMT -5
I'm getting the sense, too, that he's getting pangs of conscience. And yet, did he sleep with Hannah or not? The kiss blowing thing could be ambiguous...yes, they did, or no, he "proved her mom wrong" and just wanted to hang out and say schmoopy things. It's intriguing...does all this focus on his "evilness" mean he is more willing to prove people wrong? Or that he feels he is unredeemable and therefore nothing he does matters? I definitely think he's getting pangs of conscience. And I think it's supposed to just be all shades and shades of grey. Agreed. And so nicely done. A joy to watch. I love the way they are throwing bones to the LoVe shippers - the true love by the expresso line (which even I think now a little corny but awwww) and the fact that Heidi went back to her first love. Hopefully - if there is a third season - Veronica will find her way back to Logan. I loved the fact that they played Veronica upset at Logan's final lines instead of the ho hum look she had in the bathroom earlier in the season.
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Post by Pixi on Mar 23, 2006 9:20:50 GMT -5
I definitely think he's getting pangs of conscience. And I think it's supposed to just be all shades and shades of grey. One of the thing that always intrigues me about this show is the grey areas that the main characters inhabit. Veronica, last year especially, went to any lengths and used people in order to serve her greater good (solving Lilly's murder). Now we see Logan doing the same...using people to serve his greater good (solving Felix's murder and exonerating himself). What I don't get, when I've read some of the recaps at TWoP, is why there is such a focus on L's serious greyness when almost every character has done seriously morally ambiguous things. I agree Erin and excellent point. Duncan, Veronica, everyone on the show has shades of grey. And they should - this is a noir show. That is what noir is all about. But Logan is always portrayed as the ultimate whipping boy. It does get frustrating. And now - all the frenzy over his corrupting of poor innocent Hannah. He is doing what he has to do to not go to prison. She is offering sex. Yes - maybe he should say no but geez - Logan has never been portrayed as some white, shining saint. I love his layers of grey.
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Post by Sharky on Mar 23, 2006 10:19:29 GMT -5
She's not 14. She's a sophmore. Hudson is 14 and he's in 8th grade so that makes her 15 or 16. Rob has no problem with teenagers having sex. Look at all the sex last season. The problem is the actress looks like she's 12. Poor casting is my opinion. I don't blame Logan in the slightest here. I respectfully disagree, oh perky one. I think RT knew she looked younger than even the age she's playing but wanted that look to ratchet up sympathy for her. I really think he cast for effect here and succeeded.
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Post by Pixi on Mar 23, 2006 10:32:08 GMT -5
She's not 14. She's a sophmore. Hudson is 14 and he's in 8th grade so that makes her 15 or 16. Rob has no problem with teenagers having sex. Look at all the sex last season. The problem is the actress looks like she's 12. Poor casting is my opinion. I don't blame Logan in the slightest here. I respectfully disagree, oh perky one. I think RT knew she looked younger than even the age she's playing but wanted that look to ratchet up sympathy for her. I really think he cast for effect here and succeeded. I grant your position but I still feel it was poor casting. Having sex with someone who looks like she's 12 is just too squick inducing. Which I don't believe is the intent. There are other actresses who wouldn't look like Logan is committing child abuse with who could still play sweet and innocent. But if it works for you . . . . . ;D
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Post by Sharky on Mar 23, 2006 10:46:49 GMT -5
I grant your position but I still feel it was poor casting. Having sex with someone who looks like she's 12 is just too squick inducing. Which I don't believe is the intent. There are other actresses who wouldn't look like Logan is committing child abuse with who could still play sweet and innocent. But if it works for you . . . . . ;D Don't know if it works for me. Part of the problem is that, at this point in life, anybody under 30 looks like they might be 12. Or at least I've become less adept at judging age by appearances. What I remember (dimly) from my own high school years is that some could switch from Pooh-dragging pony-tailed purity to va-va-va-vixen at willl, depending on whom they were trying to impress at the time. Anyway, we'll see how this plays out.
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Post by Michelle on Mar 23, 2006 11:26:02 GMT -5
I'm just typing all of this on the fly, so it might not come off very coherently. Please forgive me. I'm definitely going to have to re-watch this one with a pad of paper by my side to take note of everything I liked about it. Right now, all I can think is: WOW! I enjoyed the heck out of this episode. We had three great interactions between Logan and Veronica. Veronica popping up behind Logan's locker door (a door! Who is it on S3 that always notices doors?) and calling him on his scheme with Hannah. And yes, Logan's right, Veronica is just a wee bit jealous. The second interaction was the little "Aww" from Veronica in the FBLA meeting when Logan caught Hannah's kiss. Too funny. And then of course, the LoVe-ly meet up by the espresso machine. OK, it was a little corny, yes, but. I. Can't. Resist. The. LoVe. The scene where Hannah "seduces" Logan and later with her blowing a kiss to Logan just reminds me of Kendall's comment about how Logan won't want to go back to girls who have barely mastered missionary. And I have to say-- Kendall's right. Logan didn't exactly look enthused about deflowering the 12 year old. OK, but having said all that, I do see something in Hannah that Logan has probably been missing since he dated Lilly. He's Demonstrative Boy. He's Touchy-Feely Guy. He likes to hold hands, and touch foreheads, and he likes to show how he feels about the person he cares for. He didn't get much of an opportunity to do that with Veronica because they had to keep things a secret while Duncan was gone. And he certainly didn't have that kind of relationship with Kendall. So maybe he has to dump Hannah now to keep his side of the agreement with Dr. Griffith, but for a little while, he got to stroll the halls holding hands, and wrestle on the couch, and catch air kisses. It was a sweet interlude in his life. Uh, even though the whole relationship was initiated under false pretenses. But what I really enjoyed were the interactions Kendall had in this episode, mainly because they were such a pleasant surprise. This episode really used her character to its fullest potential. Her scenes with Cassidy, Aaron, and Logan were so fun. The dialog was chock full of double entendre. Sometimes just single entendre. Cassidy is playing her like a violin, of that I'm sure. It's kind of squicky that she acted so seductively toward him in the elevator, trailing her finger up and down his chest, but that's Kendall. I don't think she knows how to interact with a man without sex being involved somehow. Harry Hamlin's attempt at a Hannibal Lecter impersonation was a scream! I wonder how many times they had to shoot that scene before they did it without cracking up? And finally, her scene with Logan and later Dr. Griffith. She appreciates being appreciated for her good looks, no doubt about it. The shot of her through the hour glass-like vase was inspired. I don't think Charisma Carpenter will bag the Wonder Woman role, but she's sure to get more acting jobs after this episode. And we got to enjoy both Vinnie Van Lowe and Cliff!! An embarrassment of riches!! As you can tell by my new signature, I loved the exchange between Cliff and Logan. I am so, so glad Logan is sticking with Cliff for his defense. I mean, logically, Logan *should* be hiring a high-priced lawyer or ten to clear his name. He's got the money, after all. But I'm confident Cliffie will get him off when it comes down to the wire. Vinnie and Veronica are comedy gold together. The look she shot him across the bowling alley, the way he basically admitted to her that she'd figured out why he was hired by the fiance's family, the "You know what disturbs me about you" exchange at the end. Perfect. Just perfect. But I'll admit it, I don't get the joke (if there is one) about the "One-eyed Ducks" name for his bowling team. He made a quacking noise when Veronica was questioning him. Later, something was said about "ducking out" on the wedding, by Veronica perhaps. I don't know if there is a connection or not there. Can someone enlighten me?
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Post by KMInfinity on Mar 23, 2006 14:13:48 GMT -5
Helluva great episode.
The long, intense "previously on.." actually snagged my husband into watching....so maybe I'll get to watch season 1 on DVD with him and hook him. It took a few accidental viewings before he became the diehard buffy fan he now is. ;D
I am really looking forward to the rest of the season now.
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Post by Lola m on Mar 23, 2006 17:25:33 GMT -5
Hee! I'm just gonna wait for Sue's review. Arrgh. No pressure! The good news is J, C and A all have all day Saturday activities so hopefully I'll be able to rewatch tomorrow and get some serious writing done by then. (Even with 2 daughters as well as Carolyn's 3 college friends staying here.) Heck, make 'em help you write the thing! **starts singing "it's a family affair, it's a family affair . . ."**
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Post by Lola m on Mar 23, 2006 17:33:26 GMT -5
Oh, this is Wallace's chickiepoo. It took me the longest time to figure that out. Personally, I tend to think only a little baby bit. Mostly I think she (rightly) is ooked out by how Hannah is being used. But he's also got a point. Since they were involved she's never gonna have total impartiality cred. Too too too funny. Cassidy is way smart. But I worry about how much influence his dad's ways may have on him . . . There is no snarkage like Logan and Cliff snarkage. Well, unless it's Cliff and Veronica snarkage. Or Veronica and Vinnie snarkage. Or Veronican and Logan snarkage. Either he really prefers Cliff - real lawyer or not - or he hasn't got as much money as we all think.
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Post by Lola m on Mar 23, 2006 17:37:45 GMT -5
She's a barrista/detective. **snorfle** You know? I really liked her too! ;D Getting DNA for daddy Echolls is my guess. But why? Why? Why? Yup. I think it's been sort of building up in him since he started in with her. But, oddly enough, I think it was the sleazy tabloid show about his family that really tipped him over the edge in truly understanding what he was doing.
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Post by Lola m on Mar 23, 2006 17:45:36 GMT -5
My initial reactions - copied from LJ before I read the board: I enjoyed this episode a great deal. I love that I'm loving my show again. It wasn't perfect - but overall, I really enjoyed this. The sex issue seems to be causing stress and I must admit - coming to LJ and visiting various sites, I'ma little surprised. So even if Hannah and Logan did have sex - what of it? It sure looked like she was pushing for it in my opinion. (Hannah's characterization is kind of all over the place, all shy and giggly one week and let me jump your bones the next). Dohring was magnificent in this episode. He played all the despair, the conflict, the determination - everything needed in this arc to perfection. I mean his life is an expose on television, PCHer's hate him - they even spit on him (ewwww and poor Logan), his ex-girlfriend has treated him like something that crawled out of the primordial ooze all season, he has no family, no home and his lawyer just told him the best he could hope for was two years in prison. I would be doing the same thing - anything and everything to prove my innocence. And last time I checked - offering sex to a teenage boy really seldom leads to the boy saying no. Yeah, I mean she was the one saying "let's have sex" - probably just as much to piss her mom off as because she wanted to. But, it's not like we don't see this is pretty much the norm with these kids, so . . . They were very squeeeworthy in this ep. It really was perfect. And it was also perfect to show it to us through various eyes watching it. Dick and Logan (that was an illuminating scene), Hannah and her parents, Veronica. Nice comparison of the Heidi story and Logan's arc! Another wonderful bit of insight! It was all about the ring and yet also by the end, the ring (standing in for the idea of being rich in Neptune - being "good enough") is discarded - sold off to help her get what she really wants in life. ;D
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Post by Lola m on Mar 23, 2006 17:53:11 GMT -5
I'm just typing all of this on the fly, so it might not come off very coherently. Please forgive me. I'm definitely going to have to re-watch this one with a pad of paper by my side to take note of everything I liked about it. Right now, all I can think is: WOW! I enjoyed the heck out of this episode. We had three great interactions between Logan and Veronica. Veronica popping up behind Logan's locker door (a door! Who is it on S3 that always notices doors?) and calling him on his scheme with Hannah. And yes, Logan's right, Veronica is just a wee bit jealous. The second interaction was the little "Aww" from Veronica in the FBLA meeting when Logan caught Hannah's kiss. Too funny. And then of course, the LoVe-ly meet up by the espresso machine. OK, it was a little corny, yes, but. I. Can't. Resist. The. LoVe. ;D Very very true about him being all about the touching. Especially his girlfriend, but also just people in general. Totally agree that Cassidy is playing a deeper game than most of the kids around him would probably realise. Now, whether or not Kendall knows . . . I think she at least has a clue. But there's not much she can do about it. So, yup, she's using sex with every man she possibly can to try and hit the jackpot somewhere. Cliffie may not be a "real lawyer", but he's devious. And that's not to be sneezed at. I don't have a big revelation. I guess I just thought of it as the team name. But someone out there will have some brilliant ideas, I'm sure. We just have to wait for it to surface. ;D
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Post by Lola m on Mar 23, 2006 17:53:44 GMT -5
Helluva great episode. The long, intense "previously on.." actually snagged my husband into watching....so maybe I'll get to watch season 1 on DVD with him and hook him. It took a few accidental viewings before he became the diehard buffy fan he now is. ;D I am really looking forward to the rest of the season now. The "previously on" was killer good, wasn't it?
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Post by Reetta on Mar 23, 2006 18:29:07 GMT -5
Been swamped with work so I kind of skipped last week. Watched it once though.
In no sensible order, my immediate reactions:
Exactly how long is the “Previously” part? They are practically recapping the whole series. But not a bad thing to do at this point; I enjoyed it enormously.
So this is it. Small scale scandals and big scale scandals. Can you stand the pressure and all the bad things said about you? The expectations and the assumptions people make about you? How does that affect what you do? Nice contrasts and parallels between Logan and Heidi for this episode, and to Kendall, to some extent, too. Most of the episode is night time action, too. Works nicely with the theme.
Keith has to go to Lamb once again. Man, that’s gotta sting. And what a prick he is.
Just like Lamb refuses to do anything, Dick also refuses to change the channel when he’s with Logan (Are you kidding? I want to see how this ends. Well, don’t you kind of know that already, Dick?). All of them are more interested in the big scandal. Well, we finally see actual proof of the existence of scandal press in Neptune. I don’t want to be all Logan Logan Logan here once again (because, frankly it kind of scares me how much repeat that sometimes) but JD acted the hell out of that scene.
Hannah’s mother? Looks familiar, the lady from Chicago Hope, I think.
Wallace, my dear Wallace! And Cliff! My two favourite men. In addition to Logan and Keith, of course.
Logan taps Veronica on the nose. Damn. You (two) are cute when you’re jealous.
“I’m with Stupid” T-shirt. Hee.
Maserati (no idea how that is spelled). Oh yeah, the car of the evil (and dubious).
Aaron and Kendall? Not that I didn’t expect to see them together at some point but why is this is happening right now? Not that I mind. This thing sounds positively scandalous already.
Hannah didn’t look quite so young this week, whereas last week I had to keep reminding myself that Logan is supposed to be 18 whereas Jason Dohring is 24 (I think).
Vinnie’s attempts at negating all the things he’s done, peppered with the smirk. Hee. And yes, I think it is almost impossible to embarrass the shameless. I didn’t care too much about the first time we saw him, but I like him more and more each time we see him.
Logan is definitely thinking of Veronica in more than one occasion in this episode. I don’t know why, but I think it’s just something in his eyes that tells me so.
Also glad that FBLA and Mr. Pope is back. He’s not even looking too bitter.
You can laser a guy’s name off your ass but I wonder whether you can really ever cut him out of your heart? Hell, I’m going to use that phrase somewhere.
If true love comes looking for me I’ll be over by the espresso machine. Of course it isn’t a coincidence that Logan comes in right that moment. Nice cliffhanger.
I really really really liked this week’s guest star, the Heidi character. And let’s be honest here, it’s been a while since I’ve felt that way.
Excellent episode. Of course, I still have no friggin’ clue what’s going on but that’s just me.
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Post by artemis on Mar 23, 2006 19:33:28 GMT -5
i loved this episode, i loved reading all your thoughts on it, and i'm so glad to be back on S3!
coherent, thought-out comments of my own to follow at a later time ;D
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