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Post by havoc on Jan 28, 2005 15:41:05 GMT -5
Open for business.
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Post by Lola m on Jan 28, 2005 23:14:21 GMT -5
Great great Starbuck episode. I really think they did a fine job of capturing Starbuck, the character, in this new version of BG.
Like the plotline of needing to bring some new pilots up to speed quickly - it fits nicely with the overall theme of taking stock of what assets they have. Materials and people. Which is nicely paralleled by our scavenging duo on the cylon controlled home-world.
Plus we got to hear Adama say to get out of the room while she still could. Which was a nice goose-pimply moment.
Lola
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Post by havoc on Jan 28, 2005 23:24:58 GMT -5
Great great Starbuck episode. I really think they did a fine job of capturing Starbuck, the character, in this new version of BG. Like the plotline of needing to bring some new pilots up to speed quickly - it fits nicely with the overall theme of taking stock of what assets they have. Materials and people. Which is nicely paralleled by our scavenging duo on the cylon controlled home-world. Plus we got to hear Adama say to get out of the room while she still could. Which was a nice goose-pimply moment. Lola Yeppers. That scene with Starbuck and Adama was like a gut punch. Saw it comin from the buildup and wanted to crawl away with her when she left the room - maybe give her a hug... and a kiss, maybe a little more - lol. Great writing and great acting. Very well done episode. And I knew ya'll would like it  |
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Post by Matthew on Jan 29, 2005 3:48:18 GMT -5
Great great Starbuck episode. I really think they did a fine job of capturing Starbuck, the character, in this new version of BG. Like the plotline of needing to bring some new pilots up to speed quickly - it fits nicely with the overall theme of taking stock of what assets they have. Materials and people. Which is nicely paralleled by our scavenging duo on the cylon controlled home-world. Plus we got to hear Adama say to get out of the room while she still could. Which was a nice goose-pimply moment. Lola Chillingly good dramatic sequence with Adama and Starbuck. She wanted him to forgive her, to comfort her, and he seemed to want to forgive her and comfort her: as sort of an undertone to his tightly controlled fury. A feeling of heartbreak and betrayal. I realized I was holding my breath when the commercial came on after that seen. TENSE. Good ep in general. Pissed that it is a two-parter, of course... didn't see that coming.  I personally thought that the fact that the nuggets made it back ALIVE on their first Carrier Battlestar landing was a testement to their skills, myself. And with the leading back to the shelter there on Caprica: I'm wondering if Boomer there is aware she's a cylon or not.. maybe she has implanted memories that made her think she came back for Helo. And the signal broadcast led them to that tailor-made bomb shelter without any collusion on her part. I've just complained on the Point Pleasant show that it doesn't have any sense of humour... takes itself too seriously. Whereas I don't get that feel from this show at all, despite the relative paucity of the funnies. It just feels like they are striking the dramatic balance right. Tense, dramatic, but not overblown. It somehow involves you. Sucks you in. Heh... liked the Doc smoking there in front of the president. What's it gonna do, kill her? One question, though. When Starbuck had the three nuggets out on the training flight with her, and they were shooting, I'd thought that they would not be doing that with live ammo. Were they just firing wide of each other? Seemed sorta fast and loose, is all. I'd thought that they had their guns loaded with blanks, until Maverick Hot Dog shot one of the cylons with his guns. Eh. But still, damn' good episode. I'm considering downloading the second half because I'm impatient. |
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Post by Karen on Jan 29, 2005 11:25:32 GMT -5
Great great Starbuck episode. I really think they did a fine job of capturing Starbuck, the character, in this new version of BG. Like the plotline of needing to bring some new pilots up to speed quickly - it fits nicely with the overall theme of taking stock of what assets they have. Materials and people. Which is nicely paralleled by our scavenging duo on the cylon controlled home-world. Plus we got to hear Adama say to get out of the room while she still could. Which was a nice goose-pimply moment. Lola I like your overall theme comment - about taking stock of assets. It made me think that maybe the characters themselves - esp. Starbuck and the President - were taking stock of their personal assets - and liabilties, too. A nicely layered ep. I liked how at the beginning we're shown that even the little things - like metal fatigue - can change our reality in a mere minute. Gaah- love and hate the "to be continued". Can't help but think, tho, that Starbuck would be toast by the time she landed on the planet.  Next week looks very good. |
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Post by Karen on Jan 29, 2005 11:27:53 GMT -5
Chillingly good dramatic sequence with Adama and Starbuck. She wanted him to forgive her, to comfort her, and he seemed to want to forgive her and comfort her: as sort of an undertone to his tightly controlled fury. A feeling of heartbreak and betrayal. I realized I was holding my breath when the commercial came on after that seen. TENSE. Good ep in general. Pissed that it is a two-parter, of course... didn't see that coming. I personally thought that the fact that the nuggets made it back ALIVE on their first Carrier Battlestar landing was a testement to their skills, myself. And with the leading back to the shelter there on Caprica: I'm wondering if Boomer there is aware she's a cylon or not.. maybe she has implanted memories that made her think she came back for Helo. And the signal broadcast led them to that tailor-made bomb shelter without any collusion on her part. I've just complained on the Point Pleasant show that it doesn't have any sense of humour... takes itself too seriously. Whereas I don't get that feel from this show at all, despite the relative paucity of the funnies. It just feels like they are striking the dramatic balance right. Tense, dramatic, but not overblown. It somehow involves you. Sucks you in. Heh... liked the Doc smoking there in front of the president. What's it gonna do, kill her? One question, though. When Starbuck had the three nuggets out on the training flight with her, and they were shooting, I'd thought that they would not be doing that with live ammo. Were they just firing wide of each other? Seemed sorta fast and loose, is all. I'd thought that they had their guns loaded with blanks, until Maverick Hot Dog shot one of the cylons with his guns. Eh. But still, damn' good episode. I'm considering downloading the second half because I'm impatient. I agree - BSG seems to suck you in more than P2 does - but personally, that's because of the action. P2 has shown a little bit of humor - with the tour group. I hope we get some more of that. |
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Post by Lola m on Jan 29, 2005 12:46:49 GMT -5
Yeppers. That scene with Starbuck and Adama was like a gut punch. Saw it comin from the buildup and wanted to crawl away with her when she left the room - maybe give her a hug... and a kiss, maybe a little more - lol. Great writing and great acting. Very well done episode. And I knew ya'll would like it Maybe a little more, huh? |
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Post by Lola m on Jan 29, 2005 12:50:49 GMT -5
Chillingly good dramatic sequence with Adama and Starbuck. She wanted him to forgive her, to comfort her, and he seemed to want to forgive her and comfort her: as sort of an undertone to his tightly controlled fury. A feeling of heartbreak and betrayal. I realized I was holding my breath when the commercial came on after that seen. TENSE. Good ep in general. Pissed that it is a two-parter, of course... didn't see that coming. I personally thought that the fact that the nuggets made it back ALIVE on their first Carrier Battlestar landing was a testement to their skills, myself. **nods a lot** And if she hadn't been dealing with her own issues, she would have seen that too. Or at least, would have been closer to seeing it. I have been wondering if Caprica!Boomer knows, myself. But since I missed the first couple of eps, I haven't wanted to speculate that much, not knowing what info or clues I may simply not have seen yet. For example, are we sure that it is Caprica!Boomer that is the cylon and not the one on the ship? Were we shown that she is a cylon or did the other cylons on the planet just start referring to her as one, and maybe they are making an assumption too? Maybe they can shoot both? Depending on how they are set? So that all they have to do is switch over to live, or something? Lola |
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Post by Lola m on Jan 29, 2005 12:54:39 GMT -5
I like your overall theme comment - about taking stock of assets. It made me think that maybe the characters themselves - esp. Starbuck and the President - were taking stock of their personal assets - and liabilties, too. A nicely layered ep. I liked how at the beginning we're shown that even the little things - like metal fatigue - can change our reality in a mere minute. Gaah- love and hate the "to be continued". Can't help but think, tho, that Starbuck would be toast by the time she landed on the planet. Next week looks very good. I like the "little things" idea. I bet we'll see more of these kind of things. Because it will underscore how they need to rely on what they have or what they can find. No more just going off to one of a supply house or one of their planets for a re-fit. As to the toasting, well, the outfits that they wear in the fighters are probably made to survive a potential ejection. So I would assume they would try to make them survivable in space, in re-entry, on the ground, etc. Still. It didn't look good.  Lola |
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Post by Karen on Jan 29, 2005 12:54:45 GMT -5
**nods a lot** And if she hadn't been dealing with her own issues, she would have seen that too. Or at least, would have been closer to seeing it. I have been wondering if Caprica!Boomer knows, myself. But since I missed the first couple of eps, I haven't wanted to speculate that much, not knowing what info or clues I may simply not have seen yet. For example, are we sure that it is Caprica!Boomer that is the cylon and not the one on the ship? Were we shown that she is a cylon or did the other cylons on the planet just start referring to her as one, and maybe they are making an assumption too? Maybe they can shoot both? Depending on how they are set? So that all they have to do is switch over to live, or something? Lola I think the whole Boomer thing is still a mystery, with a few hints. Do you want me to send you my tape of the first couple eps, Lola? |
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Post by Lola m on Jan 29, 2005 13:03:29 GMT -5
I think the whole Boomer thing is still a mystery, with a few hints. Do you want me to send you my tape of the first couple eps, Lola? Only if you have a spare one. I don't want to take your one copy. 'Cuz you know SciFi - they'll show the first half of the season and then re-run. So I'll be able to catch up pretty quickly. And I can always ask questions here and have you guys answer them. But thanks for the offer!  Lola |
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Post by Matthew on Jan 29, 2005 13:52:31 GMT -5
**nods a lot** And if she hadn't been dealing with her own issues, she would have seen that too. Or at least, would have been closer to seeing it. I have been wondering if Caprica!Boomer knows, myself. But since I missed the first couple of eps, I haven't wanted to speculate that much, not knowing what info or clues I may simply not have seen yet. For example, are we sure that it is Caprica!Boomer that is the cylon and not the one on the ship? Were we shown that she is a cylon or did the other cylons on the planet just start referring to her as one, and maybe they are making an assumption too? I think that ALL the Boomers are cylons. There are at least two: one was shown on the Ragnar station after the Galactica had left it. Don't know if it is the same one as we see on Caprica. I was wondering if they xeroxed a human, with an existing set of memories, or if they just MADE someone with a new life. #6 on the planet did not stop Boomer after she shot another of her avatars, and then ran off with Helo. I'm thinking it was a setup, that she's a cylon, whether she knows it or not. On the miniseries and the first eps: havoc's reviews are pretty comprehensive on summing up the action. You can probably catch up that way, pretty well. I'll see if TWOP is doing recaps, too. Good point. Though I can't see her letting them have live ammo after making sure they are that pissed off at her. But obviously, she did. Matthew |
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Post by havoc on Jan 29, 2005 13:57:32 GMT -5
Maybe a little more, huh? Oh, maybe |
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Post by havoc on Jan 29, 2005 14:15:43 GMT -5
**nods a lot** And if she hadn't been dealing with her own issues, she would have seen that too. Or at least, would have been closer to seeing it. I have been wondering if Caprica!Boomer knows, myself. But since I missed the first couple of eps, I haven't wanted to speculate that much, not knowing what info or clues I may simply not have seen yet. For example, are we sure that it is Caprica!Boomer that is the cylon and not the one on the ship? Were we shown that she is a cylon or did the other cylons on the planet just start referring to her as one, and maybe they are making an assumption too? Maybe they can shoot both? Depending on how they are set? So that all they have to do is switch over to live, or something? Lola I think Boomer is a cylon simply because a) she had no predisposition to believe she might be anything but human. b) she is doing things (apparently) that only a traitor would otherwise do and c) She seems subconsciously driven - not overtly. Ie the decisions she is making arent a matter of overt thought so much as instinctual direction. That would tend to point to programming. I could be wrong, easily; but, my money is on her actually being cylon; but, with the capacity to fight her programming - even if unsuccessfully so. Looking back at "Water" she seemed to have no real memory of planting the detonators; but, the evidence and the story seem to paint the picture that she did in fact do so. If she were a sleeper with subconscious coding, it would be literally no different than any of us picking up a bit of trojan code with a virus in it. By the time we realize we're infected and the machine is acting on instructions we didn't give it, sometimes it's too late to do anything about it. Like I said, could be wrong. I know some things further from what I have seen; but, no more really than what we have at the moment. Short of them coming right out and saying she is cylon - no ifs ands or buts about it, they've given us probably the strongest statements that she is. |
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Post by Lola m on Feb 2, 2005 21:02:04 GMT -5
Excellent review, Havoc!
Loved the way you organized it - from your division of the “fall” of Starbuck into chunks of story to the final summarizing paragraphs. You really explained the interweaving of the different timelines of the story so well, helped me better understand how the editing, directing and writing all played off each other so well in this episode. The falling Viper parallels the fall of Starbuck until she tells the truth and is forced to deal with the consequences.
I really liked how you pointed out that:
I loved how all the side stories played different variations on our main storyline and theme. The dead pilots, the secret that President Roslin is keeping (for good reason), cylon Boomer unknown on Caprica and the ship, nubie pilots that perhaps really shouldn’t be flying. All of it had something to contribute to the way Starbuck’s story was unfolding.
This episode was so much a dance between Adama and Starbuck, culminating in, as you said, the scene we had been building to. Man. Both actors were just so amazing in that. Her complete devastation and breakdown (mirrored, as you pointed out, by the shots of pilot and ship, separated and free falling). And Adama! Dude! Just. Perfect. So controlled and yet look in his eyes to see he’s completely out of control.
Your final summary just rang so very true. I particularly liked:
and
Thanks again, Havoc – very nice job!!
Lola
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Next week looks very good.
