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Post by Dalton on Oct 10, 2003 14:48:12 GMT -5
I can't go all off incensed and appalled about this article. Just seems to me like the writer decided to take a very unpopular opinion and write up a piece supporting it -- for the attention it would no doubt attract.
Athene V
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Post by Dalton on Oct 10, 2003 14:49:18 GMT -5
I used to enjoy their articles so much, I bookmarked their website!! No longer, if that's what they must resort to for attention.
Lee Parish
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Post by Dalton on Oct 10, 2003 14:56:35 GMT -5
Strangely enough, as partisan as I am, I try to see, if possible, the other guy's (girl? "Jaime?) point of view.
Tough playing the devil's advocate on this one, though. Spring hit the nail on the head, I think, when she pointed out that the reviewer just "doesn't get it" (like the TwoP folk). Like looking at the world upside, backwards and through a funhouse mirror. (Or like the Parent's council on TV--so focused on one single tree they aren't even aware that a forest is growing!)
Sorting through the dreck (and an unpleasant task it was) he makes a few valid points: too much time on the SITs, not enough bonding and just plain interaction between the Core Four. (I mean, none of us like Giles' new personality worth a ding-dong--but we keep hoping there's some explanation for why he is being written like that. How can you blame that on Spike?).
The two biggest factual errors (not just difference of opinion) he makes are:
1): //And James Marsters, a good actor who has shown himself capable of the kind of underplaying this show used to thrive on, made matters worse by playing this scene as an over-the-top fit of lurching and moaning, like one of William Shatner's lesser method moments on "Star Trek." (The gratuitous shirtlessness just adds to the comparison.) //
Them thar's fighting words! Just the fact the JM has always been so subtle in all of his portrayals makes this scene leap out at you. When one is in agony (real life true gut-wrenching emotional pain) the normal person does not "suck it up" and go all stoic. Spike's always been an emotional guy, now he's on the verge of madness, the reviewer thinks he should go all "Peter O'Toole school of acting?" (P. O'T has a very DB style--one expression conveys all.) Personally I think it was closer to Richard Burton! (showing my age here) And to compare him to Shatner. That's just....just.....just....SACRILEGE!
getting myself under control.
As for the shirtlessness--draping himself on the cross might have been just a little bit less dramatic with the shirt ya think? Besides the shirt was a legit plot point re trying to wear a "costume."
2)//But it's not just the overemphasis on Spike that's the problem; it's the way this emphasis has betrayed one of the most appealing themes of the show: that it's OK to be uncool. //
Strangely, I never saw this as a major theme. Yes, Xander and Willow were somewhat "uncool", but I never saw it as "It's OK to beuncool", but more as accept yourself for who you are and build on that. They did a pretty good job of showing that the "cool" kids also had their own issues. Either way, where he really messed up was in comparing Spike to Fonz. Just how badly can you not get it? Spike was "uncool" too. He never fit in, as a human, as a vampire, as a vampire with a chip in love with the Slayer. (That's not the Fonz, or even Richie, that's Pottsie on a bad day.) And he went through the same struggle Xander and Willow have: trying to fit in, trying to be what Buffy wanted him to be and give her what she needs. He's still struggling. It's somehow cool to be TFE's trigger controlled "butt-monkey"? Be used, kicked, beaten and tortured by Bringer's and Turok-han? Then get yelled at by Buffy about being available if she needs someone to be "weepy and get whaled (?) on." Cool's not what it used to be, clearly.
I'm not angry with the reviewer--I'm just sad for the folks who will read the review and think the the guy knows what he is talking about. They need to watch the show and make up their own minds.
Edited By Sue P at 5/13/2003 11:17:00 AM.
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Post by Dalton on Oct 10, 2003 14:58:40 GMT -5
Did the writer of the article even READ the shooting script with the original final scene of BY? It sounded dreadful, and way more over the top than the revised scene was! In fact, had they stuck with the original ending, Spike detractors worldwide would have had a field day with the results. Okay, maybe I AM getting a little incensed and peevish with this article...  Athene V |
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Post by Dalton on Oct 10, 2003 15:01:57 GMT -5
//Patience is a virtue always rewarded. Dori's spikefeed had the missing information. So now you don't need to bother confirming or denying any possible differences between the spoiler, wild-feed and episode. So much less work for you all. Oh well, 7 minutes to go before episode 13 airs here so I better go start making preparations. //
Just so you know, Kerrie, the one thing I don't do is read the complete wildfeeds. I enjoy reading the bits and pieces of information I find here and there, but if I don't read the wildfeeds, there's still some wow factor when the final episode airs and I can see how the whole thing came together. Wildfeeds completely blow the whole effect. To each his own, if you like wildfeeds then have a ball. But they are the one spoiler element I don't induldge in.
David Crenshaw
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Post by Dalton on Oct 10, 2003 15:05:28 GMT -5
I emailed Ellie and Josh last week, asking how they were and telling them that we all missed them over here on the boards.
As we all know, Ellie popped in a few days ago and I just heard from Josh. He's done with his exams and has been for awhile but "real life" (OK, I've heard of those but what are they?) has taken over since. He moved, went camping for a week and other "real life" stuff - in fact, he even missed the last episode of "Buffy" and the season finale of "Angel"! He did want me to let everyone know that he is now in an internet friendly location so he'll be back with us shortly!
-L :-)
Edited By Lee Hollins at 5/13/2003 11:30:00 AM.
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Post by Dalton on Oct 10, 2003 15:09:33 GMT -5
Hi All, I see all the archive messages to me and I promise to answer them tonight. Just got the WB's Fall Schedule email and thought I'd pass on the link to the Angel section of it: www.thewb.com/Shows/Special/0,11116,114399||,00.html. Yay! JM is second on the cast list! Rae Hanson |
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Post by Dalton on Oct 10, 2003 15:11:09 GMT -5
Rae said: //JM is second on the cast list! //
I wonder how that is decided? Other than DB being first. Some shows do it alphabetically. Clearly this must have been negotiated by his agent. Wonder how the other leads feel?
Estrogen-addition suggestions: A female-demon girlfriend for Lorne (hey, it could happen)
or
a "mother-superior" type: older female ala Giles in Buffy. (still probably wind up looking like middle-aged Raquel Welch rather than a real human being)-- I know, Jean Stapleton!
Sue P
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Post by Dalton on Oct 10, 2003 15:13:23 GMT -5
//Now some of his ideas I agree with - the core four not getting enough screen time, the annoying as piss SiTs - those ideas I can get on board with! Dissing Spike? Nuh-uh, no way, nada - not cool with me.//
The author is definitely way off base on a lot of points. For example, I used to watch Happy Days -- it's true that the status of the Fonz was elevated after the first season, but the focus never shifted off of Richie and the rest of the cast until after Ron Howard left the show. And once Richie was gone, they made the mistake of trying to continue (unlike Joss' decision to stop BtVS without Sarah), which is why the show died a season later. Fonzie was never the focus of the show until AFTER Ron Howard quit, at least not to the point that this author suggested.
Similar thing here. Yes, true that there has been a lot of emphasis on Spike the last couple of seasons. And this season, with the introduction of the slayers-in-training, there's been a lot less screen time for the original Scooby Gang, and notably Spike hasn't given up much if any of his spotlight, but that's not because he's "cool", it's because right now he still has a serious story to tell. Maybe when the ME writers had brought in the potentials, they could have balanced the lessened time a bit more between Spike and the other Scoobies, and not given so much time to the potentials, but I still don't think the way they're doing things is because Spike is "cool".
But what if Spike is cool? Who cares! Are we worried that our youth are going to want to emulate him, all become vampires and check into government run facilities to get chips put in their heads, but that won't be enough so in a year or two all of our youth will suddenly mount pilgramiges to Africa in hopes of having their souls restored? All because they wanted to be like Spike?
David Crenshaw
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Post by Dalton on Oct 10, 2003 15:16:48 GMT -5
I agree that I sort of liked Kennedy at first. But we don't know how much slayer training she actually had. The two people who I think would have been better at training the SITs (besides Buffy herself) would be Xander or Amanda. Think about it: Xander still retains his military memories from "Halloween" but I admit he's been busy with the sisyphean task of constantly rebuilding Casa Summers. That's why I'd go with Amanda. Of all of the SITs, she's most battle-tested. And she's actually not annoying.
Becky Henderson
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Post by Dalton on Oct 10, 2003 15:17:24 GMT -5
//It's in print, so it must be true... Now, if there was a reason for Giles to make regular trips to LA, I would be content. //
Don't be surprised when it happens. Anthony Stewart Head has said he's interested. Nick Brendon also voiced interest, but doesn't believe it will happen since Xander never really liked Angel.
David Crenshaw
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Post by Dalton on Oct 10, 2003 15:44:54 GMT -5
I too remember when Salon wrote great articles about Buffy. Seemed like Joyce Milliman would pen something for them nearly every week.
David Crenshaw
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Post by Dalton on Oct 10, 2003 15:45:43 GMT -5
Oh, my, now it's really all official-looking, isn't it? I wonder about the order of the cast myself -- didn't Alexis Denisof, this year, get a "And Alexis Denisof" credit at the end? So he doesn't get that anymore? How strange. Maybe I'm imagining it.
Athene V
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Post by Dalton on Oct 10, 2003 15:46:30 GMT -5
From the WB directly -- We made the opening paragraph!
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2003-2004 schedule
Admit it. You've been worried. Would your Angel return? Should you take that Wednesday night class this fall? Could The WB's Big Sunday get any hotter? You'll find the answers in the schedule you see at the left (in case you're in a hurry, the answers are: 1) yes; 2) not unless you want to miss Smallville; and 3) three words: Tarzan and Jane).
And you'll find out lots of other stuff too - like what happens when a woman's born without the fear gene, why Steve Harvey and Holly Robinson Peete are back, and news about some guy named Spike. Plus a downloadable image gallery, and gorgeous, printable posters for every show. (P.S. to Smallville fans: finale spoiler alert!)
Needless to say, there's a lot more. We'll be adding news and info about the upcoming 2003-2004 season to these pages often, so check back soon. Or subscribe to The WB Insider newsletter to get the latest news delivered to your mailbox!
You don't have to wait until fall to see a hot new series on The WB, though - Boarding House: North Shore premieres Wednesday, June 18th at 8/7c!
David Crenshaw
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Post by Dalton on Oct 10, 2003 15:46:59 GMT -5
Angel Returning Series Hour Drama Wednesdays 9/8c
Being undead for a few centuries and cursed with a soul, Angel has a unique perspective - and tons of free time. So, what does this righteous man do to pass the centuries? Put a team together and go vigilante on the City of Angels, which has become a lot less safe since evil demons and their scary minions started buying up all the real estate.
Last season, Angel narrowly managed to stop the apocalypse, which begs the question, "Where do we go from here?" Well, Angel reunites with Wesley, Fred, Lorne, Gunn (and SPIKE!) - to take over the L.A. office of a formerly evil and currently annihilated law firm. Of course, there's always a hitch. (What do you expect from demonic lawyers?) And a few surprises... like visits from some of the Sunnydale gang.
Executive producer Joss Whedon, co-executive producer Jeffery Bell and consulting producer David Greenwalt with Twentieth Television.
David Crenshaw
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