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Post by Riff on May 1, 2006 15:16:58 GMT -5
Um. Something tells me it's not gonna be as easy as "here's a battery, bob's your uncle". And I don't think the Doctor really thinks it's gonna be that easy. Making up stories about your dad to tell your dad? Don't make them too unrealistic, Rose. He won't buy a "him" that's your fantasy daddy. Yup. He figured out that he's really dead. As the dad, it's his job to take the blame. Oh you stupid cow!!! Didn't he say, don't touch the baby! Well, crap. Now you're all done for. Dude - you gotta step out there and get hit by a car. For puppies, and Christmas. I really like this actor. You can see he knows what he needs to do. And you can see he's gonna do it - he's working himself up to it. But you also really feel what it would be like to be in that spot. To really know that you have to just . . . go out there and get killed. I thought he was excellent. You know, I have to wonder if part of Rose's connection with the Doctor is that she see something of a father figure in him (not in a creepy way). Jackie's last words to Peter are "Don't say that." This is worth remembering.
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Post by Riff on May 1, 2006 15:20:07 GMT -5
Um. Something tells me it's not gonna be as easy as "here's a battery, bob's your uncle". And I don't think the Doctor really thinks it's gonna be that easy. Making up stories about your dad to tell your dad? Don't make them too unrealistic, Rose. He won't buy a "him" that's your fantasy daddy. Yup. He figured out that he's really dead. As the dad, it's his job to take the blame. Oh you stupid cow!!! Didn't he say, don't touch the baby! Well, crap. Now you're all done for. Dude - you gotta step out there and get hit by a car. For puppies, and Christmas. I really like this actor. You can see he knows what he needs to do. And you can see he's gonna do it - he's working himself up to it. But you also really feel what it would be like to be in that spot. To really know that you have to just . . . go out there and get killed. Yeah.. he's brave as all hell.... it's in his eyes when he realizes it. Oh, god that heartbreaking "my daddy!" God, but Pete Tyler is an incredible man. So beautiful in his acceptance of it, and so grateful for being allowed to see his daughter as she's grown. Damn. "Go to him" Yes. the last thing he sees is his daughter smiling at him and loving him. And the way history changed in the story of Pete's death: but he's still the same daddy: Still "the most wonderful man in the world"Because he's an ordinary man? That's what the episode seems to suggest: that ordinary people rise to the challenge when called upon.
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Post by Riff on May 1, 2006 15:21:50 GMT -5
And so they get the "goodbye kiss" they never had in real life. Even if Jackie doesn't remember it later, they had it. Run towards the car! So, she gets what she said she wanted at first - for him not to be alone when he died. So now things are changed only slightly, and Rose is in the story that mom tells to Rose. Interesting circular story thingee. But I still wouldn't pick that kind of day to visit. I wouldn't either: but it showed her truly what kind of man he is, deep down at the core. She sees how deep the steel in him goes, even if he's a screwup in everyday life: he's got the guts to do what he needs to do when push comes to shove. Yes, when push comes to shove. I wonder how many people are like that, ultimately?
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Post by Riff on May 1, 2006 15:24:20 GMT -5
Such good snarking. ;D Yeah, about the odd choice. I mean, that exact moment? "Gosh, out of all of time, I'd really like to see my dad smacked by a car!" Did she pick the time? I missed the first few minutes. For a kid's program, that was a very dark episode. What with the kids disappearing in the playground and all. Rose got to have a real memory of her father doing a wonderful thing. Oh, and there was one scene of Rose very close to the camera in the foreground and the inside of the church in the background that was kind of eerie. Loved this ep! Definitely one of the half dozen excellent eps in the season. Oh, and if you thought that one was dark for children, wait until next week...
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Post by Riff on May 1, 2006 15:26:48 GMT -5
Did she pick the time? I missed the first few minutes. For a kid's program, that was a very dark episode. What with the kids disappearing in the playground and all. Rose got to have a real memory of her father doing a wonderful thing. Oh, and there was one scene of Rose very close to the camera in the foreground and the inside of the church in the background that was kind of eerie. Loved this ep! Yeah, she wanted to be there because she knew that he had died with no one there to be with him. She wanted someone to be there and she'd be the one, so she asked the Doctor to travel to that moment. And then, when they'd watched once, she felt like he died too fast and she still didn't get to make sure he wasn't alone, so she wanted to visit again. Only that made it even more dangerous because her and the Doctor were already there, so now there we two sets of them watching. And then she (the second Rose) ran out and stopped him dying. Which is just . . . well, dang, didn't she think watching might make her feel like that? And why didn't the Doctor think of that? Actually, I know that the writers did it this way to emphasise that he is an alien, with different sensibilities.
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Post by Riff on May 1, 2006 15:28:32 GMT -5
Yeah, she wanted to be there because she knew that he had died with no one there to be with him. She wanted someone to be there and she'd be the one, so she asked the Doctor to travel to that moment. And then, when they'd watched once, she felt like he died too fast and she still didn't get to make sure he wasn't alone, so she wanted to visit again. Only that made it even more dangerous because her and the Doctor were already there, so now there we two sets of them watching. And then she (the second Rose) ran out and stopped him dying. Which is just . . . well, dang, didn't she think watching might make her feel like that? Ah, now I remember from when I watched it originally. That's why I thought the Doctor was off-base when he came down hard on Rose for saving her dad - because I don't believe she had planned to save him, but seeing him die and having another chance was just too much for her to take. Loved little Mickey imprinting on Rose, too. Funny, he is quite a bit older than her than I imagined.Well, chronologically, maybe. ;D
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Post by Riff on May 1, 2006 15:30:36 GMT -5
Something tells me, he's got to go out there and get smacked by a car to make this better. Ah, he's figuring it out. She's your daughter, time is wonky. Awww. Sweet moment with the getting married couple. I like that - "who says you're not important?". Like, the story is taking a moment to acknowledge that in RL, all the "characters" are important. Life doesn't have main characters and walk ons. Heeeee! Mickey. ;D Grabbin' on to Rose. Baby!Rose looks rather shocked/offended at all that's going on. ;D ;D ;D The Time Lords would have fixed this. But you're a Time Lord, so it's up to you Doctor. Hey! Glowy key thing! I was about to say just how much I loved that moment. Julia, there's a look of recognition, there I also noticed that. I wonder if it was just serendipity during the filming?
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Post by Riff on May 1, 2006 15:37:39 GMT -5
Interesting: two sets of Rose and the Doctor Ah, this could be interesting. What effect does Rose's father's not dying have? This is kind of Back to the Future, no? An ordinary man; that's the most important thing in the world Wow, the TARDIS is gone. Didn't see that one coming. Better to have the stories than the man himself? The older something is, the stronger it is. So, there's something out there that attacks when things get out of whack. Ah, the first phone call. Cool! Wow, her father's pretty cool. and pretty quick on the uptake. Mickey! Hee. He hasn't changed a bit. Don't. Touch. The Baby! lol. Aw, sweet story. Though we don't see how the future would have been different with Rose's father in the picture. Only now I'm confused, cause what about the alien dude in the last episode who threw things out of whack? There were no dragons then.The creatures are called Reapers on the web, in fanzines, and so on, but are actually Vortisaurs - parasites who live in the space/time vortex, feeding from anomalies. As Lola has noted, the situation was different because the two sets of Rose and the Doctor made the point in time weak to begin with. I don't think he'd have done that in the first place if it wasn't for how he feels about Rose. As for a future with Pete in it... *sews lips closed*
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Post by Riff on May 1, 2006 15:41:58 GMT -5
That was - ahem - fantastic. Of COURSE the marriage wasn't what she was brought up to believe it was. Having witnessed this firsthand, I saw it coming - he was a bad husband, they didn't get along, probably would have divorced eventually if he hadn't died. But then, they die, and you forget all the bad stuff, or at least make it seem far less bad. Poor Rose. Never stopped to consider what her parents' marriage might really have been like. I mean, I knew the second I saw the "get-rich-quick" apartment mess. And Rose. I get that she wanted to save her father, and maybe she doesn't read a lot of science fiction. But "don't touch the baby" is very clear. She can't take simple instructions? Reached right out to grab her little self. A lovely episode. You know that eeeeeeyowwwwww! noise just before the theme music begins (the "sting", as it's known in fan circles )? At the start of this ep, we hear it while seeing Peter's photograph. We know at that moment that Rose is in for a shock. *laughs* Poor Rose - I think you're all being a little hard on her. Herself-as-a-baby is thrust into her arms and she doesn't react quickly enough? I've watched that scene a few times now, and she barely has time to do anything. It doesn't seem unreasonable to suggest she was in a state of shock about the day's events. ;D
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Post by Rachael on May 1, 2006 17:14:46 GMT -5
That was - ahem - fantastic. Of COURSE the marriage wasn't what she was brought up to believe it was. Having witnessed this firsthand, I saw it coming - he was a bad husband, they didn't get along, probably would have divorced eventually if he hadn't died. But then, they die, and you forget all the bad stuff, or at least make it seem far less bad. Poor Rose. Never stopped to consider what her parents' marriage might really have been like. I mean, I knew the second I saw the "get-rich-quick" apartment mess. And Rose. I get that she wanted to save her father, and maybe she doesn't read a lot of science fiction. But "don't touch the baby" is very clear. She can't take simple instructions? Reached right out to grab her little self. A lovely episode. You know that eeeeeeyowwwwww! noise just before the theme music begins (the "sting", as it's known in fan circles )? At the start of this ep, we hear it while seeing Peter's photograph. We know at that moment that Rose is in for a shock. *laughs* Poor Rose - I think you're all being a little hard on her. Herself-as-a-baby is thrust into her arms and she doesn't react quickly enough? I've watched that scene a few times now, and she barely has time to do anything. It doesn't seem unreasonable to suggest she was in a state of shock about the day's events. ;D Ahem. I cut her all kinds of slack for being 19 and wanting to see that her dad didn't die alone (hell, at 32, I'd love to be able to go do that) and not being able to help herself saving him. Totally understandable. HOWEVER...jeez. The Doctor almost had an aneurism the first time she tried to touch the baby - and honestly, that kind of stimulus should at least have resulted in an inhibitory effect for more than half an hour. I think Rose is just so young she doesn't fully grasp the concept of "Oh, I could die doing this."
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Post by Lola m on May 2, 2006 7:21:05 GMT -5
I wouldn't either: but it showed her truly what kind of man he is, deep down at the core. She sees how deep the steel in him goes, even if he's a screwup in everyday life: he's got the guts to do what he needs to do when push comes to shove. Yes, when push comes to shove. I wonder how many people are like that, ultimately? Both fewer and more than would be expected, I tend to think. In that there would likely be surprises. Folks that you'd think would stand up and don't and folks that you'd never suspect of being that noble. IMHO.
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Post by Lola m on May 2, 2006 7:24:19 GMT -5
Um. Something tells me it's not gonna be as easy as "here's a battery, bob's your uncle". And I don't think the Doctor really thinks it's gonna be that easy. Making up stories about your dad to tell your dad? Don't make them too unrealistic, Rose. He won't buy a "him" that's your fantasy daddy. Yup. He figured out that he's really dead. As the dad, it's his job to take the blame. Oh you stupid cow!!! Didn't he say, don't touch the baby! Well, crap. Now you're all done for. Dude - you gotta step out there and get hit by a car. For puppies, and Christmas. I really like this actor. You can see he knows what he needs to do. And you can see he's gonna do it - he's working himself up to it. But you also really feel what it would be like to be in that spot. To really know that you have to just . . . go out there and get killed. I thought he was excellent. You know, I have to wonder if part of Rose's connection with the Doctor is that she see something of a father figure in him (not in a creepy way). It's certainly a possibility. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
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Post by Riff on May 2, 2006 14:14:00 GMT -5
A lovely episode. You know that eeeeeeyowwwwww! noise just before the theme music begins (the "sting", as it's known in fan circles )? At the start of this ep, we hear it while seeing Peter's photograph. We know at that moment that Rose is in for a shock. *laughs* Poor Rose - I think you're all being a little hard on her. Herself-as-a-baby is thrust into her arms and she doesn't react quickly enough? I've watched that scene a few times now, and she barely has time to do anything. It doesn't seem unreasonable to suggest she was in a state of shock about the day's events. ;D Ahem. I cut her all kinds of slack for being 19 and wanting to see that her dad didn't die alone (hell, at 32, I'd love to be able to go do that) and not being able to help herself saving him. Totally understandable. HOWEVER...jeez. The Doctor almost had an aneurism the first time she tried to touch the baby - and honestly, that kind of stimulus should at least have resulted in an inhibitory effect for more than half an hour. I think Rose is just so young she doesn't fully grasp the concept of "Oh, I could die doing this." Her age is a factor, no doubt, but I think it's also to do with her current situation making her feel even more alive. It's an interesting contradiction in the show: on the one hand, it's very life-affirming and optimistic; on the other hand, it's bleak, fatalistic, and morbid. It's about death, as Russell T. Davis has said. I won't add another comment about next week's ep, followed by a sinister ellipsis.
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Post by Riff on May 2, 2006 14:16:12 GMT -5
Yes, when push comes to shove. I wonder how many people are like that, ultimately? Both fewer and more than would be expected, I tend to think. In that there would likely be surprises. Folks that you'd think would stand up and don't and folks that you'd never suspect of being that noble. IMHO. I suspect you're opinion matches up with fact.
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Post by Riff on May 2, 2006 14:17:04 GMT -5
I thought he was excellent. You know, I have to wonder if part of Rose's connection with the Doctor is that she see something of a father figure in him (not in a creepy way). It's certainly a possibility. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
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