|
Post by beccaelizabeth on Jun 29, 2004 22:23:49 GMT -5
Lots and lots of puppy analogies (and behaviors) in this episode. The Master is "your faithful dog", Jesse follows Cordelia around "like a puppy dog", and Darla (still massively out of character by comparison with later) really is like the Master's puppy-dog. Angel puppy much later. Master's court like a pack of hounds? Hunting. yup. Willow had all the dark Willow signs painted up right from this first episode. The daft writers just detoured by way of addiction and muddied it all up.
|
|
|
Post by Rachael on Jun 29, 2004 22:45:28 GMT -5
yup. Willow had all the dark Willow signs painted up right from this first episode. The daft writers just detoured by way of addiction and muddied it all up. Agreed. The addiction metaphor was just. . .stupid. Especially since they proceeded to basically discard it in favor of "the magic is a part of you, so you can't not use it".
|
|
|
Post by S'ewing S'cubie on Jun 30, 2004 1:52:24 GMT -5
... so far, I've actually noticed much more of the personality of the person still there after vamping than I was expecting. Jesse is still fixated on, crushing on, Cordy. He still talks to Xander in a different, oddly jokey-friend, way than he does to others. And he is trying sooooo hard to deny his previous loser status, it's like - protesting too much, eh? ... Thank you. That was one point I meant to make and forgot. There are sharp parallels between Jesse's turning and another vamp who saw himself as a loser. What do you suppose Jesse would have done had he the century and a quarter given someone else we know...
|
|
|
Post by Lola m on Jun 30, 2004 5:59:02 GMT -5
Angel in these first eps - so different from later. But, is he different or just showing one side of himself so far?
'Cuz there's already some sparkage with Buffy. They're trading jibes and verbally sparring. And Buffy's all: "Angel. It's a pretty name." Not sure what to make of his saying he won't help stop the Harvest: "Because I'm afraid." On one hand, he is right to be afraid; we saw in the wishverse that Cordy went to what a bad time Angel had with the Master and so on. But, he also has a little smirk on his face as he says it, so . . . hmmm.
I tried to place this time for Angel in context of what we later learn. He's been wandering and lost until just recently. Whistler told him to help Buffy, but he probably doesn't know exactly how and is feeling a bit uncertain. So, now I think he's still holding himself off a bit til he figures out what these people are like and what he should be trying to do. Offering cryptic clues and then leaving is because he doesn't really know how this is supposed to work yet; what's safe to tell Buffy, what's not. Is he interferring with her training, her life, what she's supposed to be doing if he hangs around too much? And she's a slayer, which has gotta have some bad vibes for a vamp. Plus, he's still very much in his "brooding alone is what makes me comfortable" place.
Like becca said - he has such a lost little face when Buffy says "Do you know what it's like to have a friend?" And of course now we know that, well, he probably doesn't really know - especially recently - what that's like. I don't know that during his time on BtVS he ever really had a "friend". Not really 'til Doyle finds him in L.A. and he forms his own fang gang do we see him with "friends". Buffy is his grand sweeping passion love, not a friend. He doesn't spend that much time really being friends with the scoobies. Spike and Dru may be family, but I wouldn't call their Sunny D time "friendly".
Interesting that he is hanging around outside the Bronze when they fight the Master - not helping, but not staying away either.
And he thought Buffy was gonna probably gonna lose.
Lola
|
|
|
Post by Lola m on Jun 30, 2004 6:00:27 GMT -5
Huh.
Luke talks about tasting Buffy. When she smacks him off, she says "How'd it taste?"
Sounds like Dracula conversation to me.
Lola
|
|
|
Post by Cal on Jun 30, 2004 6:50:46 GMT -5
Wonderful review, Diane! I'm enjoying watching each episode and then reading everyone's comments on them. All very interesting and insightful observations. There isn't much I can add that hasn't already been said. I agree with Diane's comments on Luke. I'm so looking forward to watching Season 2 and getting to the Spike episodes. I'm sure I shall have much more to say then! As I said before, Season 1 is my least favourite season, but one I still enjoy watching. After all, it's still the season that started it all and I love watching the early Scoobie interactions. For me, I really became hooked from Season 2 onwards. I bet you're all really surprised about that!
|
|
|
Post by Lola m on Jun 30, 2004 18:47:10 GMT -5
More random thoughts.
* Several mentions of demon souls in here, including one from Giles in his "old ones" speech - says "infected by demon's soul".
* Second ep and they are already establishing that Giles will not have the "normal" Watcher authority role. We see several instances of the gang cutting him off, interrupting or not doing what he says. Buffy cutting off his "one girl in all the world" speech. Several interruptions during the "we gotta find Jesse" meeting. First Xander and then Willow take strong roles in the fight at the Bronze.
* When they find Jesse in the sewer, he says "I was bait." And, gosh darn it - he was, wasn't he? I guess that means that you can tell the truth all the time when you are evil. ;D
* Buffy's fighting skills a little better here, but yeah - I agree with the comment earlier that the staging/filming of it is still a bit stilted and forced looking. Like smacking you with a hammer - "see - girl fighting and being strong - look look!" And what's up with the Slayer not being able to push the rusted metal door shut but Xander lends a hand and "whoosh" - it's shut?!
* Watching this was a good reminder that Xander's "I don't like Vampires" mindset really stems from Jesse's death more than any later jealousy of Angel. Much more explains the very emotional and sometimes ambivalent nature of that attitude. And I agree with the early post that said they didn't think Xander would have been able to stake Jesse. Hard enough to deal with that it was your hand on the stake even with it being an accident.
* I forgot that Harmony wasn't that successful at being popular gal. She's only a part-time Cordette; we don't see her at the Bronze with Cordy and her hangers-on, for example.
Lola
|
|
|
Post by beccaelizabeth on Jun 30, 2004 18:58:54 GMT -5
* Second ep and they are already establishing that Giles will not have the "normal" Watcher authority role. We see several instances of the gang cutting him off, interrupting or not doing what he says. Buffy cutting off his "one girl in all the world" speech. Several interruptions during the "we gotta find Jesse" meeting. First Xander and then Willow take strong roles in the fight at the Bronze. * I forgot that Harmony wasn't that successful at being popular gal. She's only a part-time Cordette; we don't see her at the Bronze with Cordy and her hangers-on, for example. Harmony gets more successful later after the Xander thing pushes Cordy from the top spot but year, to start with, not so much a success. And Giles reacted to them ignoring his authority by letting them. Not getting uptight and trying to assert himself, just taking orders no worries. Not big on being a leader.
|
|
|
Post by Matthew on Jul 1, 2004 0:51:40 GMT -5
One of those trying to be cool scenes that actually totally works- Darla doing the happy skipping little schoolgirl impression, vamp faced, leading a pack of vampires to the feast. Black and red again on the vamps. I frequently envy their wardrobe. This surprises no one who ever met me. with 'Ballad for dead friends' in the background isnt it? Good music for the moment. <SNIP> I love that little tag scene. The schoolkids together and Giles clutching his bag like a shield. Walking with them but heading off his own way before the end. Fits so very well. I love these anylyses of yours, be. Regarding Buffy's speech habits: I think it was more a case of the writers and SMG both getting used to the way the character talks, feeling her "voice" if you will. I honestly don't think that the watcher's council is aware how much of the creature that was there before is left behind when a person is turned: how many vamps have they found that would co-operate, after all? It's as if we learn all the new stuff with the characters, as the show progresses.. that we age, and our perceptions of the demonkinds age, along with them. Again, fascinating, and please, do continue doing this..
|
|
|
Post by Matthew on Jul 1, 2004 1:04:06 GMT -5
More random thoughts. * Several mentions of demon souls in here, including one from Giles in his "old ones" speech - says "infected by demon's soul". <SNIP> * Watching this was a good reminder that Xander's "I don't like Vampires" mindset really stems from Jesse's death more than any later jealousy of Angel. Much more explains the very emotional and sometimes ambivalent nature of that attitude. And I agree with the early post that said they didn't think Xander would have been able to stake Jesse. Hard enough to deal with that it was your hand on the stake even with it being an accident. <SNIP> Lola First part: I thought, that "Vampire soul" was the same as saying "vampire demon". Never really struck me as a disjunction. In either case, an animating force. One much more powerful and active than the other, of course. Second part: I've always felt this way: whenever Xander sees a vampire, of ANY sort, he sees that which took Jesse from him and Willow. That he is able to offer a little sympathy to Spike, to even play a game with him of pool in Triangle, shows how much he has grown in, well, not accepting them as people, but in accepting that his friend was still alive when he killed him. Getting to know Spike as a person, not just a monster, made staking Jesse into.. murder, in his mind? which may be why he resisted it so much, and turned his back so strongly on their earlier overtures once Buffy returned. To allow him to maintain the idea that Jesse was already gone, completely, when he went Poof on him.
|
|
|
Post by Rachael on Jul 1, 2004 8:10:07 GMT -5
More random thoughts. * Buffy's fighting skills a little better here, but yeah - I agree with the comment earlier that the staging/filming of it is still a bit stilted and forced looking. Like smacking you with a hammer - "see - girl fighting and being strong - look look!" And what's up with the Slayer not being able to push the rusted metal door shut but Xander lends a hand and "whoosh" - it's shut?! I thought much the same thing about Xander, initially, but now I sorta see it as an early example of Buffy not being able to go it alone - she needs her friends to back her up, even for the little things. So it was a symbolic door-pushing: the two of them, together, was more than the sum of the parts.
|
|
|
Post by Kate (K8) on Jul 1, 2004 11:37:38 GMT -5
Huh. Luke talks about tasting Buffy. When she smacks him off, she says "How'd it taste?" Sounds like Dracula conversation to me. Lola Thought so too. Deliberate or just coming up with similar snappy come backs coincidently? One thing that suprised me was how long the vampires took to dust. When buffy staked one with a pool cue I kept waiting for the cue to drop to the ground but it never did the vampire it was stuck in just fell over. Did they ever do any other morphs into vampire face like the fast one Darla did?
|
|
|
Post by Queen E on Jul 1, 2004 13:07:14 GMT -5
Thought so too. Deliberate or just coming up with similar snappy come backs coincidently? One thing that suprised me was how long the vampires took to dust. When buffy staked one with a pool cue I kept waiting for the cue to drop to the ground but it never did the vampire it was stuck in just fell over. Did they ever do any other morphs into vampire face like the fast one Darla did? I think that was limited to those 2 episodes. Funny, too, because the vamp face in the first episode of Angel was all weird too...
|
|
|
Post by KMInfinity on Jul 3, 2004 8:45:13 GMT -5
I thought much the same thing about Xander, initially, but now I sorta see it as an early example of Buffy not being able to go it alone - she needs her friends to back her up, even for the little things. So it was a symbolic door-pushing: the two of them, together, was more than the sum of the parts. I agree. Watching this season, while in the midst of Season 5 with my hubby watching for the first time, really emphasized the group dynamic that was set up in the beginning. The later seasons explored that dynamic by threatening the group, or isolating Buffy (especially in S6 and S7), but I think a strong subtext throughout the years is the obvious one that *we* (BuffY) can't do it alone. It might be interesting to note how many times it's explicitly stated that Buffy needs her friends, including how many times Buffy says it herself. It's clear as early as this that her unconventional slayer experiences and training will result in her being the most successful slayer ever. (Or is there something in ths canon that says or suggests there was a longer lived or more successful slayer than Buffy?)
|
|
|
Post by Rachael on Jul 4, 2004 17:07:18 GMT -5
I agree. Watching this season, while in the midst of Season 5 with my hubby watching for the first time, really emphasized the group dynamic that was set up in the beginning. The later seasons explored that dynamic by threatening the group, or isolating Buffy (especially in S6 and S7), but I think a strong subtext throughout the years is the obvious one that *we* (BuffY) can't do it alone. It might be interesting to note how many times it's explicitly stated that Buffy needs her friends, including how many times Buffy says it herself. It's clear as early as this that her unconventional slayer experiences and training will result in her being the most successful slayer ever. (Or is there something in ths canon that says or suggests there was a longer lived or more successful slayer than Buffy?) Nothing in canon; in one of the Tales of the Slayer stories there's a Slayer who made it to 30, but that's not canon.
|
|