1/7: Angel

[Julia, wrought iron-y]

k8 said:

Certainly the past is a hinderance in the progress of Buffy's romantic life and living in the now is good for getting through immediate difficulties. Also, as Buffy tells Willow, it is important to live life to the full coz tommorrow you may be dead especially if your a slayer.

However living in the now too much may, sometimes, lead to short-termist attitudes like when Joyce accuses Buffy of just reacting to each new danger and Buffy thinks they mean what she is going to do immediately when the Scoobies are wanting to know what she plans to do with her life.

Were you thinking of any particular times when living in the now was important? Enjoyed reading your earlier posts by the way.

k8, much of my reaction to this comes from too many months of discussing the way Buffy behaves when she is successful, but the short-hand is that she is strongest and most likely to make good choices when she is acting on instinct and impulse- for instance when the plan to share Slayer Power comes to her when she is mostly trading ripostes with TFE!Buffy in "Chosen".

Looking back on her successful it's possible to see how they hold up to logical analysis, but what we're shown of how they come to her is as an AHA! moment, a grasping of the gesthalt, grocking the shape of the present, not a sober study of the past to meticulously plan out actions in the furture.

Julia, it's not a criticism to say someone exists in the now

[Patti - S'cubie Cutie]

Julia said:

Praise from Caesar is great praise indeed.

Thanks, Nan.

Julia, still feeling that reviewing this episode properly is beyond mere mortal powers

Julia, thank you so much for the excellent review! You put a lot of work into it and I hope it was worth it to you - it was for me!

[Julia, wrought iron-y]

PattiT said:

Julia, thank you so much for the excellent review! You put a lot of work into it and I hope it was worth it to you - it was for me!

Thanks, Patti, I'm hoping for enough uninterrupted time tomorrow morning to read and appreciate your review, too.

Julia, counting the days until my brain will not be the playground for teenagers with loud voices

[beccaelizabeth]

Lola said:

Very insightful, Julia. How often we have key scenes in front of or involving that door. Joyce learning about her daughter's slayerness, for example. Or the door as barrier, or not, to the danger outside.

liminal spaces
I read an essay about that. or possibly heard it. but, doors, important

Janus god of doors. Not doors important because Janus, but Janus important because of what doors signify- choice, and the moment of change.
also shutting out and letting in, defence and welcome, specific choices.



also windows significance
eyes windows to the soul
windows something that lets you see and be seen without being part of it
smash the window, cant stand seperate.

[beccaelizabeth]

Julia said:

Giles of Season 1 is not a Giles who could have been Ripper, is he?

big not agreeing.
Giles of season 1 is a Giles who got scared down to his boots by the way things went as Ripper.
that pattern of behaviour led to such badness he rejected it entirely
somewhat the way a born again Christian rejects sin or a child of alcoholics rejects alcohol
they've seen the root of all evil and they need to identify with something as far away from it as possible.
he embraced the nice quiet orderly has all the answers council
like running back to parents, like letting one book tell you it has all the answers.
if they are right then there is a way to be safe, a way to make things right again.
so they have to be right. because the alternative is too frightening to contemplate.

[beccaelizabeth]

Rachael said:

Didn't there used to be a mirror on Buffy's closet door? Convenient that it's gone, if so.

There is the mirror of looking at outfits in 1st ep, 'I'm an enormous slut', on the inside of the closet door. but by 'Never kill a boy on the first date' theres a closet door with no mirror, and they are using Xander for a mirror, not holding up clothes in front of a mirror. Xander uses the little jewel box mirror to try and sneak a peek. Buffy doesnt look in any mirror to put her lipstick on.

Angel is sooo young, for being so old. He knows kissing Buffy is wrong, and he shouldn't, and all the why nots that she doesn't know. The adult behavior in that situation, when dealing with a smitten sixteen-year-old, would be to NOT tell her you were having kissy feelings. But instead, Angel tells her he can't be around her 'cause he wants to kiss her. Which is the ideal way to get her to never leave him alone.

Angel was an immature brat at whatever age he was turned, looked like rich kid with no reason to grow up. Then he spent centuries being a vampire, the want-take-have monsters. after that he tried the whole hermit thing. learning moderation in emotional matters isnt something he has had a reason to start on, too busy either acting on or suppressing without evaluating either way. so he is kind of a teenager, and a young one at that.

Finally, a very trivial observation: Buffy sleeps in her bra. I've noticed it more than once, and not just when Angel's in her room. Bra, under jammies. Weird.

my mum finds it wierd that I ever take my bra off, and with what gravity has been doing to my anatomy I realised she has a point.

[Julia, wrought iron-y]

beccaelizabeth said:

liminal spaces
I read an essay about that. or possibly heard it. but, doors, important

Janus god of doors. Not doors important because Janus, but Janus important because of what doors signify- choice, and the moment of change.
also shutting out and letting in, defence and welcome, specific choices.



also windows significance
eyes windows to the soul
windows something that lets you see and be seen without being part of it
smash the window, cant stand seperate.

In BtVS and AtS, it seems that doors are more about regular transitions: invitation, orderly exit, acceptance or rejection (thinking here especially of the door in Buffy's dorm room, the role of the front door at 1630 Revello in OaFA, and doors in LMPTM, Kate's Door in Reprise and Epiphany) whereas windows are about lack of control and subversion (School Hard, the innumerable throwings of Angel and Spike through windows in all seasons, Angel and Buffy in "Bad Eggs", Angel pitching Russell Winters, The Bringers breaking into Buffy's basement).

Or so it seems to me.

Julia, trying to get my brain heading in some meaningful direction

[Julia, wrought iron-y]

beccaelizabeth said:

big not agreeing.
Giles of season 1 is a Giles who got scared down to his boots by the way things went as Ripper.
that pattern of behaviour led to such badness he rejected it entirely
somewhat the way a born again Christian rejects sin or a child of alcoholics rejects alcohol
they've seen the root of all evil and they need to identify with something as far away from it as possible.
he embraced the nice quiet orderly has all the answers council
like running back to parents, like letting one book tell you it has all the answers.
if they are right then there is a way to be safe, a way to make things right again.
so they have to be right. because the alternative is too frightening to contemplate.

Well, that's not what I meant, so much as his behavior is an utter rejection of Ripper-ness; I don't mean "not capable of having been" but rather "not showing the qualities necessary to have been so". Giles in Season 1 makes sense as Ripper in retrospect, but as he is presented originally, his personality is not evidence that Ripper is possible, let alone constantly present.

Julia, because it's not always easy to discern the repressed from the utterly inexperienced

[beccaelizabeth]

Julia said:

Well, that's not what I meant, so much as his behavior is an utter rejection of Ripper-ness; I don't mean "not capable of having been" but rather "not showing the qualities necessary to have been so". Giles in Season 1 makes sense as Ripper in retrospect, but as he is presented originally, his personality is not evidence that Ripper is possible, let alone constantly present.

Julia, because it's not always easy to discern the repressed from the utterly inexperienced

now agreeing

[Julia, wrought iron-y]

beccaelizabeth said:

now agreeing

Thought we probably were actually in agreement here- my commpsed expression (conclusion without supporting argumentation) does leave me open to misunderstandings of this sort.

Julia, avoiding the sticky humid outside as much as possible

[Rachael]

my mum finds it wierd that I ever take my bra off, and with what gravity has been doing to my anatomy I realised she has a point.

But when you're lying down, you're not having that effect of gravity, and the one you are having, bras can't help with.

This is an odd conversation for the ep thread.

[beccaelizabeth]

Rachael said:

But when you're lying down, you're not having that effect of gravity, and the one you are having, bras can't help with.

This is an odd conversation for the ep thread.

truly odd
but the effect I meant was that once gravity has made parts mobile they end up in odd places. Which can get uncomfortable. so then deciding which discomfort is less.
of course on tv the appearance thing is more the issue. you never see tv people looking anything but perky.

[beccaelizabeth]

that 'previously on BtVS' voice is really wierd

theres clues in the opening 'who is Angel' montage- it goes
B: Who Are you?
A: I'm a friend.
W: That must be Angel.
X: That wierd guy that warned her about all the vampires?
G: The brethren from his order <--- clue! blatant clue! cut together so its Angel's order.
G: would come to the Master to bring him the Anointed.
W: Who's that?
M: The Anointed will be my greatest weapon against the Slayer. <-- so you are meant to listen to the different cut clips as if they were one conversation answering each other.
M: Welcome my friend.

Yes I know we routinely ignore these previously montages because we've seen it all, but I just noticed that and thought it was neat. its all 'Who?' and vampires.

wierd, wierd voice doing the 'in every generation' speech. Why wasn't it Giles?

Big red blob in the darkness, turns out to be the pool of blood in front of the Master's throne. He's holding stones for the Anointed to plop into the pool.

I'm wondering if the Seal is down there, not opening because they didnt have the right sacrificial knife, or if they just got the wrong spot.

Also, the Master is so carefully parental with the Anointed. Its a bizarre and disturbing compare/contrast with how Giles is with Buffy. Each raises their chosen child to be a weapon against the other. Obviously the Master is creepy and Giles isnt. Right? But, differences, small. Actually the Master seems to hold his protege in greater esteem sometimes.

Darla comes down the steps, in school uniform. In this light it looks blue. But so do the Master's leathers. Except for when they look gold. Theres more than one reason I dislike the lighting down there. Improbable and distorting. Which actually are appropriate words for that little court.

Colin, the Anointed, in red and black still. Wears red when the master is around but only black after he is dead. Given what Spike wearing red means about him and Dru I just got the most icky possibility spring to mind.

The Master doesn't send Darla because she has a personal interest in this. So doing stuff because she wants to isnt good enough reason? Later vampires are all want-take-have, but the Master keeps them under control, so they only do what they want to if it is also what he wants. Therefore slightly different picture of vamps given in early eps.

The Three, Darla repeating the name in surprise.

Nice lighter, with the skull.
three tattooed skinheads, scary.
three chainmail clad vampires, scarier. (Darla, crossbow, gun. always upping the stakes.)

cockroach. You know I've never bothered thinking on the potential symbolic significance of the nasty little bug things. They feature here and also in Rm w/a vu. In both the exterminators try and get rid of them, in both the only result is much hardier bugs. And a whole lot of crunchy dead ones admittedly. Roaches=vampires? Because, really hard to kill, and always more of them, and icky. Would inherit the earth in the event of the end of civilization. Have exterminators after them. Constantly at war with humans, though humans try and pretend they dont exist in out of sight out of mind fashion. and, infesting the Bronze.
possible comparison to other refusing to die characters in respective episodes. Angel, Darla (very), the two ghosts in the new apartment.

and now I have the overwhelming urge to go wash my hands a lot. and possibly my hair, though I think I can keep that under control. back in a tick... ew, bad word, um back in a little while...

*cleans*


Buffy in black crochet top. Want. Willow in green.
Willow being dreamy about Xander, so of course Xander is at his most 'huh?' and leaves one wondering why. We know why, but right then, its more of a 'I voluntarily associate with that?' kind of moment.
dancing, enthusiastically, and trying to talk to a girl. while dancing like that. *facepalm* on so many levels...
red and yellow top with wierd pattern that seems to be like a low res optical illusion without the illusion part. over a plain white t. The amount of times he'd be fine if he just took off the shirt *pauses for images that lack t-shirt in them* oh yes, very fine...

Xander asks Buffy to dance and she totally ignores it. Crushed Xander, meet crushed cockroach.

Angel behind bars. And in front of lava lamp and wierd baroque plaster thing. Black jacket over white t, surprise.
Buffy can sense him, sense she is being stared at.
place with no Angel in now has a rainbow. colored top. hmm.

Buffy not wearing Angel's jacket, wearing the blue one she had I think in the first episode first time she went to the Bronze/hunting vampires who took Willow. And first meets Angel. I think. I would have to change discs to be sure.
so now is black and blue.

Also, lookit, random street scene. Some actual Sunnydale that isnt the Bronze, school, or graveyard. New. Not one of Buffy's places.

Sensed the three with enough confidence to call them out. But didnt sense they were three. Must be the vamp sense isnt that precise.
Vamp drops down from above. We see super strength people do that a lot, possibly because it looks impressive, but possibly also the whole higher=superior thingy. Like when we see Buffy on the bar high up over Angel when she first meets him.

The Three might dress scary but they dont follow through on the original surprise. Restrain her and pull her out of the street, presumably to feed. Act like they have her under control. And they arent far from wrong.
First time we've seen Buffy fight more than one opponent?

after credits

hand reaches in, big chunky chain round wrist, and I think a ring but its very blurred. Angel, chain also round neck, hanging down under shirt. Angel often wearing chains.
bad guy grabs handy pointy burglar bar. which breaks off.

I like Buffy's double kick thing. If they'd have let her go she'd have landed on her ass, but they were all confident so she could use that.

So Angel comes to Buffy's rescue but gets injured, and Buffy decides to run rather than fight. Three against two and the two are outmatched, at this point in their careers. Not enough XP obviously.

Buffy says "Get in! Come on!" (Not just 'come on'. the get in part would be the invite. more of an instruction actually.)

The other vampire gets its hand through the door.
perhaps 'get in' would apply to all that hear it?
because usually an uninvited vamp would bounce off before they could get that far.
which leaves the question, why on earth didnt they break the door down?
ooc, because they were just then inventing the rules and went for the dramatic shot. ic, must be a lack of imagination.

vampires dont reflect but they do refract, multiple images in the prisms in the door glass.

tattoo looking very black.
chain doesnt appear to have anything on it.

Angel looks pretty in first season.

The framing on the Buffy tends to Angel shot is interesting. We can't see the wound or the bandages at all, we see Buffy and Angel all up close on one side of the shot and a big empty stretch of cabinet behind them, which kind of emphasises how close they are cause look at all the space they could be in and look at where they are. And all you can see of Angel is skin, and nipple. Not his arm, so its like hes not active, he's just there. Being done too, passive eye candy.
Angel's injury is on his side, Buffy is around his front, close enough to be in kissing range. very practical.

Then hears the door and jumps away to the new threat.
guilty jump for there or scared for outside?

That crochet thing leaves a lot not covered yet also covers everything. Its why I like them, and mesh tops. maximum skin and yet the appearance of modesty. but it also means there was a lot of Buffy skin close to a lot of Angel skin without her getting naked.
Of course the top she is wearing underneath it is perfectly decent as outerwear, I think.
so, top looks like webs or dreamcatchers.
oh what a tangled web we weave?

[beccaelizabeth]

Joyce comes back from the gallery after teenagers are socialising at the Bronze. long hours.
wearing black.

Joyce: That's sweet! What'd you do?
mom to a teenager

incidentally, do we know her name is Joyce yet?
quick scan of transcripts says not named in first three, and she isnt in Teacher's Pet at all, or Never Kill a Boy on the First Date, or The Pack. Doesnt get a first name spoken in this one either. She is nameless mom person, often completely absent. Which since we're watching Buffy's world makes sense.

Buffy introduces her to Angel as 'my mom'. No names there. Which is typical for a teenager meeting, but not between adults. So in some ways Angel is being treated by teenager rules here, even by Joyce.

Names are a thing with me. Meanings, uses, huge layers of stuff.

On the stairs there is one big picture with a black background and lots of colors, looks to me rather like blue arms reaching out of the earth in front of a rainbow gravestone. But could also be trees. And theres another picture further up the stairs. I mention this specifically because there was something in the essay on doors and liminal spaces that made mention of a series of pictures of doors/archways lining the stairs at Buffy's house, which I think I've seen but they are not present here.

Rings on Angel- one on right hand little finger, one on left hand middle I think. goes past very quick. but two rings.

Buffy has posters up on the slopy ceiling bit, and stuff tied to the bars of the bed.
Keep your back turned while I change- because she couldnt go in the bathroom and do that?
well, okay, they probably hadnt built the bathroom bit of the set yet, but ooc is not a good reason.
Its like when she got Xander to turn his back. This to her is acceptable privacy from boys.
Only Angel doesnt try and sneak a look.

Looking out through blinds. Blinds are down and mostly closed in this ep. Buffy blind(s)? also nice dramatic dark and light behind Angel.

"Somebody has to." is true and yet utterly useless compared to the important bits of truth. Angel's good at that.

Buffy asking what his family thinks. Again, example of teenage thinking, treating him like a fellow teenager. part of family is the default, the assumption, and not-family (They're dead) necessarily means drama.
I'm comparing this to AtS, lots of singles in the city, where family is a factor but not the first thing you ask about.

"So this is a vengeance thing for you?"
and Angel changes the subject. By saying Buffy is pretty. I'm finding that deeply creepy, because I'm reading it as older man in bedroom of teenager avoiding telling her he's a serial killer by telling her she is pretty. Even without the serial killer part the older man part has all my he-should-know-better buttons going.

the mirror from the first ep was inside a cupboard door, and most of the doors are shut, so even if it is still there it wouldnt be a giveaway now.

Buffy has a big paper parasol by her bed. reminds me of the prom present.
oh, and the poster on the sloping bit is sunflowers

she has a teddybear in her bed with her. Two cushions with dark with spots on covers, as well as pillow with crochet cover that kinda matches the bed spread. one uplighting blue lamp on her right, one sort of frilly thing on her left. phone, box with suns on it, snowglobe with princess castle (you know, the turret kind, not the siege kind). more blinds, closed. Thats how many sides of the room with outside windows? door on the side next to the closets, windows in the wall with the slopy ceiling, window in the wall next to the bed head. two walls with windows, one wall unaccounted for, but with the chest of drawers we just see as they enter the room, the one with the jewelry box on it Xander played with.
um, I'm boring people. sorry. I'm trying to get the layout straight in my head cause it keeps having too many walls from the camera angles.

Angel sleeps between Buffy and the door, not between her and the window on the other side of the bed that would be hidden if someone opened said door. I think theres room, he was just walking there.

theres lots of nice stripy light on Buffy, but Angel in this whole in her room sequence is mostly in shadow. You cant see his expression when she is questioning him about motives, just shadow. And now the shadow side is nearest the camera so again you can barely see him. Shadowy guy.
Then he says 'It's been a long time since anybody's been in a position to let me know.' and turns to look at her, and we see the grin. still there when we see from above and his face is pretty well lit but with encroaching shadows.
which I'm sure I thought was sweet back the first time I watched these, but I now read as slightly creepy.

New day, and Buffy a black leather jacket. also a white dress, short like usual in first season, and with a pink hairband.
Xander in brown with a white stripe, black trousers, big chain hanging down one side.
Willow in two kinds of blue.
Giles in the cardigan (shudders) with the sleeves pulled up. stripy shirt, stripy tie. looks like varying shades of brown but in different light I think we've seen that tie look burgandy and gold, Sunnydale colors. The cardigan remains dark and dreary however much light you put on it tho. leave it off Giles! Cardigans just not a sex symbol. anti sex symbol. fuzzy slippers wimp symbol.
Watch and ring on left hand as per usual.

"you weren't here from midnight until six researching it."
which is the good line because Giles knowing everything without research would be convenient, but with research makes him the hero of librarians everywhere.
but.
midnight until six of the same night Angel spent with Buffy?
the night we saw Buffy from the battle through to settling in to bed?
did she phone Giles right after we went away?
does he have marvellous powers of ESP with regards to the activities of his Slayer?
Or was he Watching her?

Giles drinking out of a mug. given how little time for sleep he had it might even be coffee.

glasses off and being cleaned. talking about how the master wouldnt send the three for just anyone.

Xander's "You should stay at my house"
Xander's house can't suck as bad as some fanfic would have it if he's inviting girls round to stay with him.
except he probably knows theres no chance of it working.
and the part of the plan where they tell Angel to get out of town
Xander's just really consistent on some things.

"the Three, having failed, will offer their own lives in penance."
Giles seems very sure of that, specially since he is telling his Slayer this as something she can bet on. But. If they had ever failed before they would be dead, right? So, they've never failed. So how could anyone know if they failed they would die? I'm sure it could get written down somewhere as some great oath, but until its put into effect then you dont know for sure it will be. Therefore, since they aint dead yet, you dont know for sure they will be.
seems like maybe he is putting too much faith in predictions.

Buffy failed, didnt kill the vampires, but theres no penance demanded of her. More training offered.

[beccaelizabeth]

Teaching the Anointed.
Darla, little blonde chick, gets the power, spear, kills the Three.

weapons training, first time. Buffy's all 'cool' about the weapons. agreed.

The weapons cabinet is one of those Sunnydale blindness things. Its a *school library*, with a cabinet full of deadly weapons.

weapons for the first time. The Three were armoured but carried no weapons. grabbed one from a window tho. of course vamps always have their weapons on them, grrrr.

quarterstaff, something to lean on. staff like on the Hermit card in the Tarot, traditional wise man prop. Giles weapon. Not so much Buffy weapon, specially since is way taller than she is.

Buffy in training clothes, light blue again. with purple nail varnish. which I bet she wont even chip.

Buffy being all pouty when he takes the crossbow away. I have a speech about idiots who point weapons without knowing enough about them. It uses the word 'idiot' a lot, especially when I'm trying not to be ruder. So I'm all on Giles' side about stages of training. But this little sequence seems to be there to prove he is wrong, too slow, too rule bound.

Spike uses a staff often, so it is a weapon her enemies will use. Buffy used a pool cue already, roughly speaking a staff. so complaining it wont be useful is plain wrong. also, '20th century'? Since when does she ever use a weapon from this century? Even the crossbow is a very old fashioned version, not a modern one with all the bells and whistles.

We've seen one training session, which Giles ended so he could wait for the feeling to return to his arms. Now he gets whupped again. He is wearing protective pads, she is not. He starts out obviously going slow and gentle. Buffy looks to be focusing on the moves for about a second, then speeds up, splats him. He has the skill, she has the speed and strength. She wins a lot.

This is also the first time we see her using violence against Giles to get her way. She doesnt learn any particular moves, so I wouldnt call her training with the staff finished at all, but she beats up Giles, so he agrees to her request. not the last time this happens. Somewhat disturbing.

They try to make Buffy the strong character. They do this by making the guys weak? Giles anyway. Male authority figure=> gets hit a lot. Is easy to undervalue his martial arts skills because he never gets to use them. He just gets to be a target. Like puffy Xander. Buffy doesnt go all out, which we can tell because Giles doesnt get multiple fractures, but she does hit once she is told to train. And sometimes it comes off like she is bullying Giles, using the fact that he will stand there and be a target to push him into doing stuff. Not so much like that yet, but here just an edge of it.

but it also looks funny, because funny falling down and being wrong. only on this viewing I'm not seeing the funny. I just remember on other times I thought it was.

He never tells her off for hitting him. He's lying there with the breath knocked out of him and he says 'good'.

Angel stayed all day and well into the night.
Buffy gets home after dark. What time of year is this meant to be? First time she has been home? Was the training with Giles after school?

The blinds are half raised and turned so they are mostly open, and the windows are both open, the one near Angel more than the other.
It is dark. Buffy turns on the light. Angel has been lurking in the dark looking out the window. Even after Buffy turns the lamp on he is still way more shadowed.

Buffy puts her hands behind her back, grips them together, and sort of wiggles in a way that sticks her chest out. um, not subtle. really. or, possibly an example of the way nervous and flirty can look like the same signals.

Angel still half in shadow and with the horizontal lines from the blinds cutting across the lit half. also the outside light, whatever it is, lights him way more than the inside lamp.

the subtitles really cant cope with the way Buffy and Angel are talking over each other.

And I'm all grr, bad Angel. no way anyone, with half a brain, could say the kiss you line and mean it to meaning he really will be going away. I mean I can accept that he's a little conflicted, but he is so totally *playing* her. It has to be deliberate. He just cant be that clueless. And I'm taking into account that Angel is the king of clueless dorks.

smoochies. and the vampire crosswiring between the three fs (feed fight frell), so tasting = want to other taste = vamp face. oops.
in the guys defence this is the first time he has even kissed anyone since the previous century, so thats kind of a lot of stimulation after fasting.

Buffy screaming in terror. I dont think its fear for her life terror, I think its paradigm clash, something that is but cannot be. Also it would be like he had died right then when she kissed him. I mean would your first thought be that he was a good vampire, or that he was a good person who helped you and got killed and is now a vampire?

Is that the only time we hear her scream? Theres Hush, but that was sort of forced and embarrassed.

Joyce runs in (wearing light blue too). Pretty good reaction time if stairs were involved.

"I saw a shadow"
Angel=shadow

Also I'm thinking again, there must have been one time I watched this and didnt know. I mean there are clues, but not enough to make me wonder, let alone figure it out. But I cant remember reacting to it. *sulk* should be a fun memory.
*sigh* maybe I just wasnt invested enough to be OMG about it yet.


I had a thought, and my thought is I'm *really* not being nice about the Buffy/Angel relationship. And I don't want to offend any B/A shippers. I can even see their point. sort of. But, what keeps getting me is, the first time I watched these I was all about how romantic it was. I was all 'Angel, *sigh*'. It was shiny and pretty and I wanted them to be forever. I think. But I mean, I never saw it as creepy. But on this viewing I keep on getting these creepy themes running right through it, and I keep noting them because its such a surprise to me. I like Angel, really I do, even when he's being a great big idiot he's *our* idiot. I get mad at him like he is family, but I basically like him. But the way he is around Buffy, that I dont like. Possibly its that I read him as much older now. I expect more from him. I dont know. But I just dont feel like he is what Buffy sees him as, the big romantic hero, and the mismatch between her perceptions and the other stuff that is going on bugs me.
or possibly something else is bugging me.
I've written about a half dozen versions of that paragraph and its still all fuzzy, what I was trying to say with it.

also, I cant actually think of a single relationship I'm all 'yaay!' about right now anyway.

so, onward.