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Post by William the Bloody on Aug 18, 2003 3:28:41 GMT -5
Written by Joss Whedon
Directed by Joss Whedon
Air date: 11/3/97
Buffy is lured into a trap by a group of vampire wannabes who hope Spike will turn them into vampires in exchange for giving him the Slayer.
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Alexandra
S'cubie
Founder
"You never had it so good as me. Never."
Posts: 108
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Post by Alexandra on Jan 28, 2004 14:56:03 GMT -5
I never understood the timeline for Ford asking Buffy to meet him at 9 PM when the vampires were going to invade the Wannabes' club at sundown (a little after 5 PM.) Did Ford think he would be exempted and sent by the vampires to bring Buffy to the club for their date at 9 PM ?
Was he so much a monster that he was going to stand aside and watch while all the other wannabes were slaughtered by the vampires? And then blithely go get Buffy?
I'm also surprised that Spike made good on his promise to turn Ford into a vampire. It always seemed to me that Spike was rather particular about who he turned. And he was NOT happy about being trapped in the wannabes' club by Buffy.
Alex
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Alexandra
S'cubie
Founder
"You never had it so good as me. Never."
Posts: 108
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Post by Alexandra on Jan 28, 2004 14:59:33 GMT -5
This episode has one of the best lines in the series in my humble opinion.
Buffy, talking to Ford: The vampires are going to, "pig out at the all-you-can-eat moron bar."
Love that line.
Alex
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Post by Linda on Jan 29, 2004 8:22:57 GMT -5
I never understood the timeline for Ford asking Buffy to meet him at 9 PM when the vampires were going to invade the Wannabes' club at sundown (a little after 5 PM.) Did Ford think he would be exempted and sent by the vampires to bring Buffy to the club for their date at 9 PM ? Was he so much a monster that he was going to stand aside and watch while all the other wannabes were slaughtered by the vampires? And then blithely go get Buffy? I'm also surprised that Spike made good on his promise to turn Ford into a vampire. It always seemed to me that Spike was rather particular about who he turned. And he was NOT happy about being trapped in the wannabes' club by Buffy. Alex Hi Alex, It was always a part of Ford's plan that Buffy would know him so well that she would go looking for him early. IIRC, he gloated about it just before they shut the door with no knob (not a smut-day reference, btw). And as to Spike's siring of Ford (aside from the fact that it would be in keeping with Spring's Spikecentricity point that Spike was the only character in the entire episode that did NOT lie), I think that Spike knew Buffy enough to know that it would cause her more pain than just killing him. And ITA about the moron bar quote.... Linda, who gained new appreciation for this episode on the strength of Spring's Spikecentricity analysis |
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Post by ellie on Jan 30, 2004 2:11:25 GMT -5
And as to Spike's siring of Ford (aside from the fact that it would be in keeping with Spring's Spikecentricity point that Spike was the only character in the entire episode that did NOT lie), I think that Spike knew Buffy enough to know that it would cause her more pain than just killing him. Linda, who gained new appreciation for this episode on the strength of Spring's Spikecentricity analysis Linda- thank you for clearing that up- Ihad never been able to explain satisfactorily just why Spike would have made good on his promise to turn Ford- the idea that it would cause the mazimum distress forBuffy makes absolute sense-  ellie |
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Post by Lola m on Nov 1, 2004 22:55:19 GMT -5
So much that is wonderful in this ep! And like others who've posted here, I found a lot of insight in reading Spring's analysis. As she mentions, so many lies and deceptions and secrets here. Angel lies to Buffy. Ford lies to the gang. Willow lies to Buffy after being asked to by Angel. Etc. etc. Including the most complicated lie and secret scene of all. Buffy and Ford - when he makes the arrangement for her to come to the vamp club. Ford is lying to Buffy about the secret special place he wants to show her when in fact it is a trap. Buffy is lying to Ford by pretending to not know he is lying when she knows it is a trap. Ford is lying to Buffy by pretending to not know that she knows that he is lying about the trap because he is counting on her trying to spring it early by herself.    ;D Whew. But everyone's favorite lie is the one at the end. Buffy asks for the lie of all lies - the one that says she doesn't have to grow up and face reality. Giles offers, ("Yes, it's terribly simple. The good guys are always stalwart and true, the bad guys are easily distinguished by their pointy horns or black hats, and, uh, we always defeat them and save the day. No one ever dies, and everybody lives happily ever after"), but of course even she knows it doesn't really work that way. Other random thoughts: In the opening scene with Dru in the playground - she says "My dear boy's gone all away, hasn't he? To her. . . . The slayer . . ." I find this very interesting because of her use of "my dear boy". She's speaking to Angel. And apparently about Angel. Because, he's the one in love with Buffy, right? I mean, this is season 2 still. But her use of "my dear boy"? That sounds more like Spike to me. Angel/Angelus is usually "daddy". Hmmmmm. Now, I don't really think the writers were being all foreshadowy and so on with the Spuffy idea. Not all the way back here. It's really just the use of a word in the first days of creating these characters and doesn't really mean that. But in a fanwanky way, looking back, it makes a lot of sense. Interesting how the scenes introducing Ford could be seen as a mirror of Willow and Xander. Known Buffy since childhood; Buffy had a big crush that he didn't reciprocate; the bantery talk; using embarrassing childhood secrets as blackmail; etc. (Also, of course, the whole jealousy thing of Xander about Ford is a nice mirror of Spike's jealousy of Angel "What might you guys have talked about, then? Old times? Childhood pranks?") LOL when Willow figures out the "I Touch Myself" song! Ford's big mistakes are all based out of his cockiness, his desperation, his need to show himself as "smarter" than others and see himself reflected in other's eyes. He needs to make others "admit" his cleverness. **sigh, sigh, sigh, swoon** Ahhhh, just love season 2 Spike and Dru! ;D   The lovely lovely bird scene. And then when Ford comes in. "Can I eat him now?" (Nice touch that she just gives Spike that look and a slight head shake and he realizes that she's getting a vibe about something.) Angel: Some lies are necessary. Sometimes the truth is worse. Buffy: I can take it. I can take the truth. Oh, boy. Can you, Buffy? Because this season is really gonna test that statement.  Moment when Ford truly lets the mask slip? It's not when he's talking with such anger and bitterness about his illness and death. It's when he gestures down at the kids below and says "these people are sheep". Buffy totally puts her finger right on it when she says that his justifications are just all part of his "little fantasy drama". Spike is (once again) a very good leader! All in charge and masterful and really has a pretty good (if basic) plan. Of course, Buffy is also the master of on-the-spot planning and grabbing Dru is a stroke of genius. Really, it's the only way she was getting out of there alive. Even with that, he almost gets to the door to catch her. Lola |
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Post by jeff on May 3, 2007 15:09:13 GMT -5
"So that what that song meant." God I just love cute little innocent Willow!
Is it me or did DB look really bad in this episode. When he is in Willow's room he looks like they went to the exteme on the white makup, trying to make him almost Goth like. " *shrug*
just looked weird
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Post by jeff on May 3, 2007 15:39:12 GMT -5
One of the best ending lines in the verse. In my humble opinion. The entire conversation while waiting on Ford to rise. Fantastic writing.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 3, 2007 16:50:08 GMT -5
"So that what that song meant." God I just love cute little innocent Willow! Is it me or did DB look really bad in this episode. When he is in Willow's room he looks like they went to the exteme on the white makup, trying to make him almost Goth like. " *shrug* just looked weird He's wearing way too much lipstick in that scene. LOL. |
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Post by Lola m on Aug 5, 2007 18:31:18 GMT -5
It's terribly simple. The good guys are always stalwart and true, the bad guys are easily distinguished by their pointy horns or black hats, and, uh, we always defeat them and save the day. No one ever dies, and everybody lives happily ever after.
Sounds like we’ve entered the fouth week of the 2007 Sizzlin’  Episode Festival.
Our seventh most requested Buffy episode is
Lie to Me
Jenny: (Re: Giles’ tweedy clothes) Do you own anything else?
Giles: Uh, w-well, not as such, no, um...
Ford: I'm finishing out my senior year at Sunnydale High. Dad got transferred.
Buffy:So. What'd you do last night?
Angel: Nothin'.
Ford: Diego, you gotta trust me. A couple more days and we'll get to do the two things every American teen should have the chance to do: die young, and stay pretty.
Willow: I-I'm gonna do work in the computer lab on school work that I have, so I cannot hang just now.
The dark can get pretty dark. Sometimes you need a story.
I'm sorry baby. I'm a bad, rude man.
Would you like a new bird? One that's not dead?
Chantarelle: It's gonna be alright, isn't it? They're not gonna let us down?
Ford: It's gonna be fine.
These people are sheep.
[/size] Want to get all fired up for discussing? Watch your DVD or tape, or read the episode here.
And don’t forget the wonderful Spikecentricity analysis of Lie to Me by our own Spring Summers, here on the Soulful Spike Society website, and the comment thread for her review, here. Giles: What do you want me to say?
Buffy: Lie to me. |
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Post by Lola m on Aug 9, 2007 12:09:49 GMT -5
One of the best ending lines in the verse. In my humble opinion. The entire conversation while waiting on Ford to rise. Fantastic writing. **nods to everyone who loves the final lines** I love how it gets at the heart of the whole series. That being the slayer, or just living in a world with demonic (and human) monsters (and how different is that from RL, really?), is never going to be simple. Never going to have easily distinguished bad guys who are easily defeated with no losses or pain along the way. |
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Aug 17, 2007 17:52:29 GMT -5
So much to love in this episode.
I keep thinking that there are connections between this episode and Lies My Parents Told Me, due to the similar titles and themes, but I haven't thought about it too much yet.
I love how Spring points out the garden of Gesthemane references in that scene in her Spikecentricity analysis.
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;D
The lovely lovely bird scene. And then when Ford comes in. "Can I eat him now?" (Nice touch that she just gives Spike that look and a slight head shake and he realizes that she's getting a vibe about something.)
