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Post by SpringSummers on May 28, 2009 20:09:35 GMT -5
So glad to see these analysis back, Spring! How very true when you talk about the expectations that everyone has of Buffy, that she will "make everything better". The heart of the spell to bring Buffy back was, in a way, selfish. Belief that they were saving Buffy, as well, but a core need that is all about them, about Buffy taking care of things for them. This line? "After life, there is just more . . . life? More of the same old life?" So! Insightful!! Because it is true. And Buffy is not in the place where she can appreciate the beauty of that simple idea. The very reality of things is horrific to her at first, as you say, "Buffy doesn’t want to know that". She's gonna need most of the season to learn to appreciate it. (Makes me think of that classic Zen saying. " Before enlightenment? Drink your tea, wash the cup. After enlightenment? Drink your tea, wash the cup." ) I also really liked how this idea continues into the comparison of the demon and how it mirrors reality. But I was expecting an exploration of these kind of issues. I mean, we've all discussed these eps before. But you totally delighted and surprised me with your comparison of imagery between this ep and Weight of the World! Buffy's hair and clothing, the "shelving books" scenes, and so on. I would never have put this type of detail together. Thank you! ETA: This post accidentally modified by me (Spring) when I was trying to respond it - but then brought back to its orginal state - I hope! Yes! We've come across the repetition of imagry before in episode discussions like Becoming/Chosen, but I'd never connected the imagry between Weight of the World and Afterlife. I love what Joss slyly hid behind his story, and, Spring, I love how you bring it back out again for us. leftylady Thanks so much for the encouragement, lefty. I have some work done on "Flooded," but have had some major challenges slowing me down. I definitely plan to keep going.
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Post by leftylady on Jun 3, 2009 18:28:05 GMT -5
Yes! We've come across the repetition of imagry before in episode discussions like Becoming/Chosen, but I'd never connected the imagry between Weight of the World and Afterlife. I love what Joss slyly hid behind his story, and, Spring, I love how you bring it back out again for us. leftylady Thanks so much for the encouragement, lefty. I have some work done on "Flooded," but have had some major challenges slowing me down. I definitely plan to keep going. So, you feel just like Buffy .... but without the need for full copper repipe? ;D Are you a "Method Reviewer"? leftylady
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Post by frankie on Jun 11, 2009 18:24:56 GMT -5
Dear Spring Summers,
This is my first post here, but ever since last year I have discovered and devoured all your existing Spikecentricity reviews, I have been a big fan. I am glad that you are able to return to writing reviews, they are very insightful and a pleasure to read.
What I wanted to add, that Scoobies indeed needed Buffy a lot, but it was Spike who needed her most of all. He was the one who knew exactly how many days and hours ago she died. I do think he needed her not only as the object of love, but also the reason and means for redemption. For all the punches, verbal and otherwise, she was the best thing that ever happened to him. Season six is somewhat depressing because of growing pains of the characters, but the story is amazingly human, nothing short of greatness.
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Post by SpringSummers on Jun 14, 2009 13:24:34 GMT -5
Dear Spring Summers, This is my first post here, but ever since last year I have discovered and devoured all your existing Spikecentricity reviews, I have been a big fan. I am glad that you are able to return to writing reviews, they are very insightful and a pleasure to read. What I wanted to add, that Scoobies indeed needed Buffy a lot, but it was Spike who needed her most of all. He was the one who knew exactly how many days and hours ago she died. I do think he needed her not only as the object of love, but also the reason and means for redemption. For all the punches, verbal and otherwise, she was the best thing that ever happened to him. Season six is somewhat depressing because of growing pains of the characters, but the story is amazingly human, nothing short of greatness. Hi, Frankie. Thanks so much for posting! Yes, I agree with all you say here. As the long time S'cubies know, I am having some challenges at work - my co-worker had to go out on 3 month leave and its pretty crazy trying to find time. But I really, really, really especially want to get to Once More With Feeling!!! And Smashed. And Dead Things . . . . So glad you like the analyses and thanks for taking the time to let me know.
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Post by SpringSummers on Jun 14, 2009 13:25:33 GMT -5
Thanks so much for the encouragement, lefty. I have some work done on "Flooded," but have had some major challenges slowing me down. I definitely plan to keep going. So, you feel just like Buffy .... but without the need for full copper repipe? ;D Are you a "Method Reviewer"? leftylady Good one, lefty.
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Post by Kate (K8) on Jun 23, 2009 10:58:20 GMT -5
While their sexual relationship was destructive and hurtful, it also kept Buffy alive. She would have killed herself by jumping off the tower--again--had Dawn not saved her, and so instead she chooses the "little deaths" (petite morts) with Spike instead. And while it was hard seeing Buffy treat Spike so poorly throughout the season, at least she wasn't taking out her misery on Dawn. In a way, Spike was still Dawn's protector, if indirectly. I hadn't thought about Buffy 'needing' someone (anyone) to take things out on but indeed this is what she does at other times when shes under stress or has 'died' like in 'When she was Bad'. Hope thats the right episode. It's a long long time since I've watched the early seasons. I didn't spot this before. Will definitely have to rewatch sometime. Also never noticed the theme of the words being tricky but totally see it now. Always nice to get new insights into episodes that I've seen a lots of times in the past.
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Post by SpringSummers on Jun 24, 2009 14:15:00 GMT -5
While their sexual relationship was destructive and hurtful, it also kept Buffy alive. She would have killed herself by jumping off the tower--again--had Dawn not saved her, and so instead she chooses the "little deaths" (petite morts) with Spike instead. And while it was hard seeing Buffy treat Spike so poorly throughout the season, at least she wasn't taking out her misery on Dawn. In a way, Spike was still Dawn's protector, if indirectly. I hadn't thought about Buffy 'needing' someone (anyone) to take things out on but indeed this is what she does at other times when shes under stress or has 'died' like in 'When she was Bad'. Hope thats the right episode. It's a long long time since I've watched the early seasons. Good catch, the connection to her early seasons behavior, when it comes to the need to "take it out on someone." Thanks for reading and commenting! If you get a chance, compare the Buffy-get-ups, and the shelving books scene . . . I think you'll see the connection.
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Post by S'ewing S'cubie on Jul 9, 2009 16:46:42 GMT -5
Well it was a long time coming, and even longer because I somehow missed that it had been published at all. But it's welcome, welcome, welcome! You haven't lost your edge, Spring. This is as perfectly crafted as any that came before.
Thanks so much!
Um.
When't the next one?
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Post by SpringSummers on Jul 10, 2009 18:56:17 GMT -5
Well it was a long time coming, and even longer because I somehow missed that it had been published at all. But it's welcome, welcome, welcome! You haven't lost your edge, Spring. This is as perfectly crafted as any that came before. Thanks so much! Um. When't the next one? Thanks, Diane. My plans to follow the Buffy-summer-viewing fest with reviews went awry with my co-workers "earlier than expected" departure on 3 months leave. I am getting some temp help in August.
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Post by LadyDi on Aug 1, 2009 13:26:01 GMT -5
Another interesting and thought-provoking analysis as usual. But here's my problem with s6: yes, making the transition from child to adult can be scary, painful and confusing, but it can also be a time of great excitement and unexpected discoveries (like, for instance, a vampire's latent humanity). Harping on the negative in such an unrelenting way...well, it sucks.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Aug 2, 2009 19:31:46 GMT -5
Another interesting and thought-provoking analysis as usual. But here's my problem with s6: yes, making the transition from child to adult can be scary, painful and confusing, but it can also be a time of great excitement and unexpected discoveries (like, for instance, a vampire's latent humanity). Harping on the negative in such an unrelenting way...well, it sucks. I think you've really hit the nail on the head vis a vis my dislike of Buffy. For me, when I was a child, I couldn't wait to grow up. I really hated being a kid. Being a kid meant that no one took me seriously, and I lacked control over my life in a multitude of ways. Even today, I've found adulthood to be a million +++ times better than childhood, despite various trials and tribulations and stresses and responsibilities. I find the view of childhood as a state of being that is to be clung to and desired almost impossible to identify with or sympathize with.
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Post by SpringSummers on Aug 3, 2009 8:18:40 GMT -5
Another interesting and thought-provoking analysis as usual. But here's my problem with s6: yes, making the transition from child to adult can be scary, painful and confusing, but it can also be a time of great excitement and unexpected discoveries (like, for instance, a vampire's latent humanity). Harping on the negative in such an unrelenting way...well, it sucks. I think you've really hit the nail on the head vis a vis my dislike of Buffy. For me, when I was a child, I couldn't wait to grow up. I really hated being a kid. Being a kid meant that no one took me seriously, and I lacked control over my life in a multitude of ways. Even today, I've found adulthood to be a million +++ times better than childhood, despite various trials and tribulations and stresses and responsibilities. I find the view of childhood as a state of being that is to be clung to and desired almost impossible to identify with or sympathize with. Thanks for the comments; especially good to see you pop your head in again, Di. I think what you're both missing is that s6 isn't just about trying to grow up. It's about trying to grow up while recovering from devastating trauma and, at the same time, shouldering backbreaking responsibility. Also Buffy does make it through, and she does let herself grow up, in an imperfect, but a steady, admirable way, given what she's faced this. It is impossible to sympathize and identify with, if you look at it as a "girl with basically normal childhood refusing to grow-up." But that is not what this story is. Buffy takes on massive responsibility at a young age, and does it well; later, after enormous trauma, she goes through, in s6, the experience of trying to continue to push forward despite her severely depressed and traumatized state. If you leave that out of the equation, you leave out an essential part of the story of s6. To characterize Buffy - who took on her slayerhood at 15 -as a whiny wimp who did nothing but harp on the negative and didn't want to grow up - I can't see it.
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Post by Lola m on Aug 3, 2009 21:08:21 GMT -5
I think you've really hit the nail on the head vis a vis my dislike of Buffy. For me, when I was a child, I couldn't wait to grow up. I really hated being a kid. Being a kid meant that no one took me seriously, and I lacked control over my life in a multitude of ways. Even today, I've found adulthood to be a million +++ times better than childhood, despite various trials and tribulations and stresses and responsibilities. I find the view of childhood as a state of being that is to be clung to and desired almost impossible to identify with or sympathize with. Thanks for the comments; especially good to see you pop your head in again, Di. I think what you're both missing is that s6 isn't just about trying to grow up. It's about trying to grow up while recovering from devastating trauma and, at the same time, shouldering backbreaking responsibility. Also Buffy does make it through, and she does let herself grow up, in an imperfect, but a steady, admirable way, given what she's faced this. It is impossible to sympathize and identify with, if you look at it as a "girl with basically normal childhood refusing to grow-up." But that is not what this story is. Buffy takes on massive responsibility at a young age, and does it well; later, after enormous trauma, she goes through, in s6, the experience of trying to continue to push forward despite her severely depressed and traumatized state. If you leave that out of the equation, you leave out an essential part of the story of s6. To characterize Buffy - who took on her slayerhood at 15 -as a whiny wimp who did nothing but harp on the negative and didn't want to grow up - I can't see it. Hmmmm. I think I agree more with Spring on this one. Now, I too had no problem with moving on to adulthood - enjoyed childhood but no desire to stay there, etc. But I see Buffy's struggles with Dawn and household and money and so on in seasons 5 and 6 as due to trying to handle grief and coming back from the dead and all and it seems pretty appropriate. (Well, as best we could know how one might react after returning from the dead. ) Of course, I always come back to my pet theory about the heart of Buffy's issues - her push and pull between her Slayer life and her desire to be "normal". Which, first, what is normal anyway (no one is "normal"). Second, she can't be not the Slayer. Third, she doesn't really want to not be the Slayer, to be "normal", she just thinks she should want to be "normal", plus she wants the non-danger and the freedom from stress sometimes. And so she struggles with juggling it all and blaming herself for having trouble juggling it all. And does some rather self-destructive, other-destructive, and just plain confusing, stuff. At least that's how I see it.
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Post by SpringSummers on Aug 4, 2009 18:40:37 GMT -5
Thanks for the comments; especially good to see you pop your head in again, Di. I think what you're both missing is that s6 isn't just about trying to grow up. It's about trying to grow up while recovering from devastating trauma and, at the same time, shouldering backbreaking responsibility. Also Buffy does make it through, and she does let herself grow up, in an imperfect, but a steady, admirable way, given what she's faced this. It is impossible to sympathize and identify with, if you look at it as a "girl with basically normal childhood refusing to grow-up." But that is not what this story is. Buffy takes on massive responsibility at a young age, and does it well; later, after enormous trauma, she goes through, in s6, the experience of trying to continue to push forward despite her severely depressed and traumatized state. If you leave that out of the equation, you leave out an essential part of the story of s6. To characterize Buffy - who took on her slayerhood at 15 -as a whiny wimp who did nothing but harp on the negative and didn't want to grow up - I can't see it. Hmmmm. I think I agree more with Spring on this one. Now, I too had no problem with moving on to adulthood - enjoyed childhood but no desire to stay there, etc. But I see Buffy's struggles with Dawn and household and money and so on in seasons 5 and 6 as due to trying to handle grief and coming back from the dead and all and it seems pretty appropriate. (Well, as best we could know how one might react after returning from the dead. ) Of course, I always come back to my pet theory about the heart of Buffy's issues - her push and pull between her Slayer life and her desire to be "normal". Which, first, what is normal anyway (no one is "normal"). Second, she can't be not the Slayer. Third, she doesn't really want to not be the Slayer, to be "normal", she just thinks she should want to be "normal", plus she wants the non-danger and the freedom from stress sometimes. Yes, it is all inter-related. Buffy's sometime-desire to return to the simplicity of childhood is very much related to the "push and pull" of Slayerhood. She wishes she wasn't so burdened, but at the same time, her Slayerhood is a huge and important part of her identity and her sense of purpose in life. When her slayer duties take her to the point where she might have to kill Dawn, that is when we see her truly wishing to stop her progress toward adulthood - we see little Buffy, we see her say "I like it here." And then she ends all progress (she thinks) by jumping off the tower. So the story isn't a story of a normal girl just petulantly refusing to grow up. Buffy does the work of growing up, all through the seasons, but she gets to this point, in S5, where it all seems too much to her; she becomes catatonic, she dreams of a time when it was all simpler, and she didn't "live in a world, where these are the choices." This is mostly because she's being asked to possibly kill her sister/sacrifice her sister - though it is significant that this is on top of having already had to "kill Angel," losing Riley in a way that confused her, and then, losing her mother. Yep. Agree. But ultimately, despite it all, Buffy does take the crucial steps toward adulthood.
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Post by Queen E on Aug 6, 2009 14:41:32 GMT -5
I think, too, that Seasons 6 and 7 really represent Buffy "trying on," so to speak, different kinds of adulthood. You have Breadwinner Buffy, working at the Doublemeat; you have "adulthood means I can do whatever I want" Buffy (ie, casual sex), Buffy-as-mom, and Buffy as general. Some work better than others, but perhaps all are necessary so that she'll understand that adulthood doesn't mean just one thing; it means a lot of different levels of both freedom and responsibility.
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