2.10: The Attic

[Queen E]

Shudder to think...

[artemis]

These were for sure my favorite pair of episodes of this season (especially "The Attic") and possibly of the entire series. I loved the mix of action, dreamlike sequences, thinky problem-solving, and emotional connections - it reminded me of vintage BTVS.

[artemis]

I also loved how Tony and Priya chose to help Echo, and insisted she honor their choice - and that it a choice with all the known facts, unlike Madeline's.

Any guesses as to who the mystery partner is?

[spacecat1974]

Could it be Adele? OR what about Summer Glau's character? Super smart but unquestioning. Possibly Mr. Harding though I think his assholeness is homegrown.

[Karen]

Dec 19, 2009 16:57:22 GMT -5 artemis said:

These were for sure my favorite pair of episodes of this season (especially "The Attic") and possibly of the entire series. I loved the mix of action, dreamlike sequences, thinky problem-solving, and emotional connections - it reminded me of vintage BTVS.

Oh, yeah. Especially the emotional connectedness. And ED got to break out of her doll roboticlike persona and show a wider ranger of acting her chops. Even Topher was less irritating and more human acting. They were all acting their parts perfectly in the past, but because that's the way they were written - they seemed so one-note. Now we get to see more emotions. More humanity.

Too bad Joss had to rush things, but it makes for a good story in any case. Can't wait to see how he wraps it up.

[Karen]

Dec 20, 2009 18:14:37 GMT -5 spacecat1974 said:

Could it be Adele? OR what about Summer Glau's character? Super smart but unquestioning. Possibly Mr. Harding though I think his assholeness is homegrown.

The mystery partner is someone that Caroline knew, right? I mean, isn't that why she was turned into a doll in the first place, because she knew things. She knew both Summer Glau's character and Alpha.

Or maybe it was Whiskey. Now, that would be cool.

I'm liking the very matrixy-type scenario.

As an aside.... I always thought that's the way they were going in LOST, too. Some kind of brain connection between all the parties - where a script was somehow put inside their heads in order to help them work through their issues.

[artemis]

Jan 1, 2010 15:24:42 GMT -5 Karen said:

The mystery partner is someone that Caroline knew, right?

But since all we've seen are echoes from Echo so far, not Caroline's full memory, we don't know if it's someone that Echo knows she knows. (I sound like Willow.) Plus, as the other partner noted, the person could switch bodies whenever they wanted, so maybe she knows them and doesn't even know it's the same person.

Interesting plot twist, I thought.

I mean, isn't that why she was turned into a doll in the first place, because she knew things. She knew both Summer Glau's character and Alpha.

Yep, things about Rossum. I think she met Alpha after she came to the DH.

Or maybe it was Whiskey. Now, that would be cool.

As far as we know so far, she also met Whiskey after coming to the DH (though see above re: possibly body switching ).

[artemis]

Jan 1, 2010 15:17:09 GMT -5 Karen said:

Oh, yeah. Especially the emotional connectedness. And ED got to break out of her doll roboticlike persona and show a wider ranger of acting her chops.

And we got to see into her subconscious! The dream sequences were always something I especially loved about BTVS. I thought the snippet about "my hateful relatives" was interesting background - it made me wonder if perhaps not feeling cared for/loved in Caroline's home life led her to seek out activism partially as an alternate means of connecting meaningfully with other people. (In the S1 episode about her past it looked like most, if not all, of the people she was close to shortly before attacking Rossum's lab were fellow on-the-fringe activists. I imagine she likely started out doing less radical activism.)

Even Topher was less irritating and more human acting.

I think this has been nicely, organically developed over recent episodes. Bravo to the actor and the writers for making it believable!

[Sue]

I need to watch the final few minutes again, but if Adele is really part of the "good guys" (or, slightly less bad guys) conspiracy then why did she give Topher's weapon to the Keith Carradine character a few episodes ago?

[Karen]

Jan 4, 2010 11:48:48 GMT -5 Sue said:

I need to watch the final few minutes again, but if Adele is really part of the "good guys" (or, slightly less bad guys) conspiracy then why did she give Topher's weapon to the Keith Carradine character a few episodes ago?

I think you might have answered your own question with your previous comment:

SPOILER: Click to show

So, when Adelle goes and gives Topher's part of the weapon of doom to Keith Carradine has he already altered it to be non-useful? Does she know that?

Done to garner his trust?

[Sue]

Jan 4, 2010 12:11:40 GMT -5 Karen said:

Jan 4, 2010 11:48:48 GMT -5 Sue said:

I need to watch the final few minutes again, but if Adele is really part of the "good guys" (or, slightly less bad guys) conspiracy then why did she give Topher's weapon to the Keith Carradine character a few episodes ago?

I think you might have answered your own question with your previous comment:

SPOILER: Click to show

So, when Adelle goes and gives Topher's part of the weapon of doom to Keith Carradine has he already altered it to be non-useful? Does she know that?

Done to garner his trust?

Yes, I thought of that when I was commenting on that episode. But only because Lola copied down that piece of dialogue and it made me think that maybe we needed to not take it at face value.

So I think this is still an open point, much like the "who is Senator Perrin really working for" point. Helpful that his wife/handler is dead. Probably easier to fool someone who doesn't know him well.

[Sue]

Some of this may actually come from ep 2.9 but I watched them together so ......

"Now you can be on my side or you can be on Rossum's but the time for playing both is over." (only I can't recall who said this to whom)

I like seeing Victor fight himself. So it wasn't just fighting, it was fighting himself that was his greatest fear. In what sense, I wonder? Fighting his own doubts about fighting or literally fighting a relative (his ancestry is unclear). Was that Enver's twin in the role?

Sad, sad: Tony wakes up 5 years later and asks about the war: "That's the same."

Adele to Echo: "You leave a wake of destruction wherever you go [later we learn the implied go destroy the attic]."

"She shouldn't be able to do that." (Welcome to the Joss-verse vision of women.)

"Welcome to the conspiracy." (Can anyone pinpoint when Adele decided to go up against Rossum and form a conspiracy. I'm not convinced it was from the get-go.)

Echo with her brain hooked up and dying in the attic made me think of Frankenstein in reverse.

Question: What do you think is up with Boyd's "stuff going on at home?"

[Karen]

Jan 6, 2010 12:44:06 GMT -5 Sue said:

Some of this may actually come from ep 2.9 but I watched them together so ......

"Now you can be on my side or you can be on Rossum's but the time for playing both is over." (only I can't recall who said this to whom)

I like seeing Victor fight himself. So it wasn't just fighting, it was fighting himself that was his greatest fear. In what sense, I wonder? Fighting his own doubts about fighting or literally fighting a relative (his ancestry is unclear). Was that Enver's twin in the role?

Sad, sad: Tony wakes up 5 years later and asks about the war: "That's the same."

Adele to Echo: "You leave a wake of destruction wherever you go [later we learn the implied go destroy the attic]."

"She shouldn't be able to do that." (Welcome to the Joss-verse vision of women.)

"Welcome to the conspiracy." (Can anyone pinpoint when Adele decided to go up against Rossum and form a conspiracy. I'm not convinced it was from the get-go.)

Echo with her brain hooked up and dying in the attic made me think of Frankenstein in reverse.

Question: What do you think is up with Boyd's "stuff going on at home?";

I am 99% certain that Echo said that to Adele.

And that would make sense in light of her turning over Topher's work to them.

His twin! I wondered that myself. He didn't have much screen time, but it would be cheaper than fancy camera work.

Very sad. So what was the point, right? He ended up pretty much as he started out and basically lost those 5 years and 'real' memories.

Well, she might have had Paul Ballard in her sights as a possible recruit and he was there from the beginning.

We'll probably never know about Boyd's past, like we never found out about Book's past.

[Queen E]

Jan 6, 2010 12:44:06 GMT -5 Sue said:

Some of this may actually come from ep 2.9 but I watched them together so ......

"Now you can be on my side or you can be on Rossum's but the time for playing both is over." (only I can't recall who said this to whom)

I like seeing Victor fight himself. So it wasn't just fighting, it was fighting himself that was his greatest fear. In what sense, I wonder? Fighting his own doubts about fighting or literally fighting a relative (his ancestry is unclear). Was that Enver's twin in the role?

Sad, sad: Tony wakes up 5 years later and asks about the war: "That's the same."

Adele to Echo: "You leave a wake of destruction wherever you go [later we learn the implied go destroy the attic]."

"She shouldn't be able to do that." (Welcome to the Joss-verse vision of women.)

"Welcome to the conspiracy." (Can anyone pinpoint when Adele decided to go up against Rossum and form a conspiracy. I'm not convinced it was from the get-go.)

Echo with her brain hooked up and dying in the attic made me think of Frankenstein in reverse.

Question: What do you think is up with Boyd's "stuff going on at home?"

I would have thought that was a reference to Dr. Saunders. In "Epitaph One," they are involved...

[Lola m]

Very creepy-icky, what they do to keep them in “stasis” or whatever in the Attic. Also? I find it very interesting that Echo’s medical file info does not label her as Echo, but uses her actual real-world name.

Disengaged? Yeah, don’t believe it! She’s gonna break out, isn’t she? Oh yeah, baby! Oh, ouch! Seriously. Ouch!!

“My real name’s Echo.” You tell ‘em, Echo! You’re your own creation now, baby!

Run run run from the Attic!! Sierra!!! Victor!!!!!

Oh, whoa. Damn. Damn!! All dreams? Are they being created by the Attic people? Eeeeeeeeeeeek!!

OMG, she wants to turn Ballard into a Doll now? Remove his “petulant personality”?

“Is everyone in this House in a coma?” Man, I can’t help but love the humor that Topher brings, even if he is a twisted little geek.

Topher, Topher, Topher. You say you don’t know what happens in the Attic, but you know that they are keeping them in a fear state. Hmmmmm. Except Echo is figuring it out, isn’t she?

“Well, that’s new.” And rather pretty, actually. Now, where will the terror come from?

Quarterback doesn’t even touch it . . . so, use a part of the brain that normally wouldn’t be in charge to be in charge, so to speak?

They’re comparing Adelle to Darth Vader now?

“I think we can all safely say that this isn’t real.” So, will her scary personalities help her the most in this nightmare they’ve created? Like, the psychopath(s) will out-scare the folks trying to scare her? “Come on, Echo, be your frikkin’ best.” How disturbing that she even uses that turn of phrase.

Reed Diamond!!!! **happy squeee** OMG, are her and Dominic somehow brain-linked?

Don’t wanna ruin your whole Highlander vibe. Ha!!

He moves from mind to mind? Is it just him, or can they all do it?

What did Adelle do/say to Ivy? Take over Topher’s job?! Scary!Adelle is scary.

So, why is Tokyo guy enjoying things and not being scared? (Excellent twisty ep, this is!)

Eeeep! Scary Sierra and Victor stuff! Zombies in bed with you and killing yourself over and over.

Oh! Tokyo guy is being hidden away because of what he knows. And scary shadow that is hunting them got to him. So, they are trapped in his reality now that he died or will the reality fall apart now that he is dead?

Boyd, what are you doing in your off time. “And you took her away from me!” Oooh, that was a . . . different Boyd than we’ve seen before. Why are you needling him, Adelle? Why are you poking at everyone? What is your plan, Adelle?

All the nightmare realities are linked together . . . hmmmm. Aren’t they worried that that is a bit, well, risky? That is contains the potential to warp and grow beyond their control?

Rigor mortis, the new viagara. Ewwwwwwwww!!

“There’s no reason to be afraid.”
“You sure about that?”
Oh, nice trap!!

OMG, the shadow guy was seeing the future!! Epitaph One!! Is he one of the guys who helped bring it about, maybe a tech guy?

That’s what we’re gonna do to Paul, take something away.
That’ll make him more pissed off that usual.
Not if I take away his anger.
**Damn!** This show can just sucker punch you right in the heart with a few lines, can’t it?

Oooooooh! They’re using all the Attic brains as the mainframe computer? Solving problems, etc. And he’s trying to ruin Rossum. And yes, he was a tech guy. Oh, a founder of Rossum! Helped come up with original tech!

Running statistical probabilities for eternity? Hell indeed! “All but 3%” of the possible futures include the end of civilization.


“2010? Then there’s still time!” (I just had a Scrooge flashback for a moment . . . )

Ah! And Caroline knew the original bad Rossum betrayers, so that’s why she was made into a doll!

“I know a way out.” That’s what she said in Epitaph One! (OMG, I just wondered if all of Epitaph One actually took place in the minds of people in the attic and not in reality . . . that would be a way to make Epitaph One true but also have an ending that avoids true Armageddon.)

“He’s not gonna take this well.” Understatement of the century, dude!

(Such an exciting ep!)

Paul and Adelle in a standoff! Echo w/answer but bleeding out! What did they take out of Paul to make room for himself?! **bounces excitedly**

Echo uses her own nightmare to teach her how to escape! Clever! And not unexpected, considering that earlier they used a faked “help everyone escape” to try to stop her glitching.

“Your plan is to come back from the dead?” See, this is why they had to being Reed Diamond back. Only he can say those kind of lines exactly how they need to be said.

“I guess I’m glad I never did kill you.”

Damn! So now she dies and escapes for real, or so she hopes. And Sierra and Victor . . .

Oh. My. God!!!!!!! She’s working for Adelle!! Adelle is the one trying to bring down Rossum!!!!!! And Victor and Sierra and Topher and Boyd are all part of it too!

**dies from the excellentness of this ep**