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Post by Queen E on Jun 10, 2010 19:13:42 GMT -5
Well, can someone please feed it?
Sorry. Bad pun.
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Post by Riff on Jun 13, 2010 8:35:51 GMT -5
Well, can someone please feed it? Sorry. Bad pun. ;D |
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Jun 13, 2010 9:00:40 GMT -5
That was... disturbing and frightening, and sad, especially the conversation between The Doctor and the boy.  The Silurian was indeed lovely, though. They've much improved since the rubber suit days. FYI, I didn't see most of the Tennant episodes, so if they turned up then, I'm pretty much clueless. But then again, when am I not? |
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Post by Riff on Jun 13, 2010 9:01:18 GMT -5
“But who is this creature with terrible claws, and terrible teeth in his terrible jaws?”
It’s a Silurian. The episode deals with what to call these things. The name Silurian is wrong from a literal point of view, because the Silurian period was 443-417 million years ago, long before we had much life on land (except a few centipedes). Interesting enough, the third Doctor points this out in his encounter with the Silurian’s marine cousins, the Sea Devils, and suggest that they be called Eocenes (although, since the Eocene epoch was actually 55-34 million years ago, that probably isn’t old enough).
The Eleventh Doctor’s term, Homo Reptilia, actually comes from the 70s novelisation of the first Silurian tale, but it really doesn’t work: since homo means (hu)man, it’s not really appropriate; reptilia is the noun not adjective form, and such a combination doesn’t work in Latin; “reptilia” isn’t real Latin anyway, but a recent invention, as, for that matter, is “reptile” (these are drawn from the Latin verb repere - to crawl - but the closest the Romans really had to a word for reptile was “serpens”, I suspect “reptilia” isn’t specific enough, and the Latin verb to crawl as far as animals is concerned is serpere, anyway). We can get a sort of combination with Homo Reptans for “crawling man”, or Homo Squameus for “scaly man”. But since they aren’t human I think the best may be Serpens Sapiens (or Prudens), meaning “wise reptile”.
Write it out a hundred times before sunrise or I’ll chop your… Anyway, I’ll call them Silurians (as the Doctor does at least once in the next part!).
The ep is set in 2020, which is significant because when we last saw the real Silurians (as opposed to the ones in Warriors of the Deep - let’s just forget that story; this episode certainly does) it was 1970, and then they said they’d be back to cause bother in fifty years. This episode deliberately refers to elements of early 70s stories, like the energy dome, cutting off the village, that was in The Daemons. Also, it is ten years after now, and so Rory and Amy can see their future selves. The Doctor suspects they have come back to witness their younger days. As he says, “Humans – you’re so nostalgic”. He has noted before that the literal meaning of nostalgia is “the pain of memory”. Hmmm.
Amy’s biggest reaction to this is apparent amazement that her and Rory will still be together in ten year’s time, and this functions to lead into the scene in which Rory puts her engagement ring back in the TARDIS for safe keeping. That looks like a moment that will have importance at some point. Note how Rory is quickly thrown into a responsible role by Ambrose and Elliot (after being mistaken for a police offer - just like Amy was at the start of the series; interesting). Following this is the harrowing scene in which Amy is “taken”, despite the fact that the Doctor promised he wouldn't let her go. This is just the start of a number of reckless promises he makes in the episode, and also an example of him letting someone down.
His relationship with Elliot is interesting. As is usual with him and children, they bond rapidly, and through this the episode has a positive view of dyslexia. While Elliot’s loving father Mo insists that his son learn to read, the Doctor simply accepts the condition. Their discussion on leaving an idyllic setting for the bright lights is fascinating, because here (with two simple words) the Doctor is more open about his sense of loss than we have seen so far this season, and it is a child that brings this out of him. Similarly, the boy causes the Doctor to almost regretfully say that monsters are scared of him. It is to his absolute horror, then, that he realises he has not shown adult responsibility toward Elliot.
The Doctor’s interactions with all the characters are interesting. Him saying to the apparently much older Tony, “Good lad!” is a quick and effective character moment, as is his oddly threatening reaction to Ambrose assembling a small arsenal of Weapons: “Oh Ambrose, you’re better than this. I’m asking nicely. Put them away.” Nasreen is definitely companion material, and now that Amy is a prisoner of the Silurians, she effectively assumes that role. We see Rory come to show absolute trust in the Doctor, also.
Most interesting of all is his conversation with Alaya (whose make-up is great, but who looks a bit too human, IMO). His line, “No, you’re not. Because I’m the last of my species, and I know it sits in a heart,” obviously links back to his earlier conversation with Elliot. It’s a bit surprising, after this, that she mocking asks him what he’d be prepared to sacrifice. She actually intends to become a suicide martyr, goading one of the humans into killing her in order to precipitate a war. This and the Doctor’s assertion that ancient occupation of a land (or planet) doesn’t give one an automatic right to it now, relates to conflicts in our current world.
As a cliffhanger, we have a Silurian civilisation, and Amy about to undergo dissection (vivisection). We have a feeling she’ll escape this fate, but what about the former owners of the Earth? UNIT aren’t here to do a spot of genocide this time, so how will the situation be resolved?
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Post by Riff on Jun 13, 2010 9:09:25 GMT -5
That was... disturbing and frightening, and sad, especially the conversation between The Doctor and the boy. The Silurian was indeed lovely, though. They've much improved since the rubber suit days. FYI, I didn't see most of the Tennant episodes, so if they turned up then, I'm pretty much clueless. But then again, when am I not? Not true.  That conversation with Elliot is unexpectedly powerful, isn't it? I've put the last few lines in my sig. We haven't seen the Silurians since Peter Davison (and Warriors of the Deep isn't the best story from his era, IMO). They only real story they've had before now (i.e. when they were well-characterised) was with Jon Pertwee in 1970. |
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Post by Lola m on Jun 13, 2010 19:10:53 GMT -5
Hungry Earth? What's it hungry for, eh? **puts on scary voice** huuuungry for blooooooooood  ;D OK, bring on the ep! Flickering security screens and lights and what not? Never! A! Good! Sign! **hides** Don't put your hand in there!!!! Eeeep! **hides again** "Rio doesn't have a big mining thing." *snerk* Bodies going missing? the hungry earth is eeeeeeating them(You know, this "being sucked into holes in the ground" thing is even scarier since the recent big sinkhole.) Amy!! Eated!!! Eeeep!!  Ooooh. Clever Sherlock kid! "The graves 'round you eat people." "S'cuse me. I'm making perfect sense. You're just not keeping up." ;D "While you've been drilling down, somebody else has been drilling up." Ooooh, I love when he says stuff like that. ;D Sensors and cameras and watching for . . . what? (Hee! I love his "good lad" comment to the dad guy. Love those little bits to remind us how old the Doctor is no matter what he looks like.  ) The bit about him asking her nicely to put the weapons away . . . is that setting up something later? Like, she keeps one and that's a bad thing? Or . . .? "Do you ever miss it?" "So much." Awww.  "Oy!Don't dis the sonic!" Ha! Eliiot got grabbed by the . .. earth monster-people or whatever! Oh! Lizard like things. With tongues like weapons! Both sides have hostages. And then we see Amy again. Threatening to kick some back-sides. ;D "Did you just shush me?!" "I'm the last of my species." "No. You're really not." Oooooooh! "Do we have to say vermin? They're really very nice."  Classic Doctor - broker a peace is always his first solution. "They're not aliens! They're Earth . . . ians." "You have to be the best of humanity." So, yes, here is the "no weapons" connection. His solution depends on them showing that humans shouldn't be all wiped from the planet. Heee! The Doctor is always getting more humans wanting to come along. ;D TARDIS going into the earth! "I know which one of you will kill me." Hmmmm. Really? Or just trying to taunt your way into what you want? Ooooh! Is digger-guy gonna turn into a green-lizard-earth-ian? Dissect Amy! Vast numbers of Earth-ians! Aaaaaaaaand, cliffhanger. ;D (And where is little Elliot, eh? ) |
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Post by Lola m on Jun 13, 2010 20:03:20 GMT -5
That was... disturbing and frightening, and sad, especially the conversation between The Doctor and the boy. The Silurian was indeed lovely, though. They've much improved since the rubber suit days. Heee! Yes, very lovely pretty greeny thing it was. |
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Post by Riff on Jun 14, 2010 2:33:25 GMT -5
Both sides have hostages. And then we see Amy again. Threatening to kick some back-sides. ;D "Did you just shush me?!" *laughs* Imagine if it was Donna. I'd have had to turn the volume down! Great observations, BTW. You always pick up on the good stuff. |
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Post by Rachael on Jun 14, 2010 17:59:14 GMT -5
Hrm. I spent most of this episode (okay, the breaks) arguing with Dave about the Doctor being a sociopath. My position: you have to be human to be a sociopath. And also, it's not that he lacks empathy; he's just so far beyond humans, socially and mentally, that it's a whole different type of empathy. I conceded, though, that immortal beings tend to be rather cavalier with the lives of the mortals with whom they associate. And, while I'm busy defending him, the Doctor lets a child go back out into the night, alone, with the monsters, so that he can get his earphones. Way to undermine my argument, Doc. |
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Post by Riff on Jun 15, 2010 3:10:49 GMT -5
Hrm. I spent most of this episode (okay, the breaks) arguing with Dave about the Doctor being a sociopath. My position: you have to be human to be a sociopath. And also, it's not that he lacks empathy; he's just so far beyond humans, socially and mentally, that it's a whole different type of empathy. I conceded, though, that immortal beings tend to be rather cavalier with the lives of the mortals with whom they associate. And, while I'm busy defending him, the Doctor lets a child go back out into the night, alone, with the monsters, so that he can get his earphones. Way to undermine my argument, Doc. That's exactly what I thought, but on re-watching the episode I found that isn't what actually happens. Elliot goes to get his headphones some time before the Silurians darken the dome or arrive on the surface. It's still daylight and most of the adults are still outside setting up the security perimeter. In fact, the reason it's a shock that Elliot isn't in the church later is because, in that scene, it seems like he is in little danger. The Doctor was wrong and was suitably horrified, but it isn't quite as bad as it seems. BTW, the issue of his responsibility in this matter is resolved through some dialogue next ep. I agree with your assessment of a different kind of empathy. The Doctor's personality isn't human, but it isn't sociopathic either (LOL, especially compared to most of his species). Episodes later this season confirm his empathic-though-distanced credentials, I think. Incidentally, do you remember the original Silurians with the third eye? The latest Doctor Who Magazine has some stuff about that you may find interesting, if you haven't come across it before: "Fossil records reveal that many of the oldest vertebrates had a socket in the skull which did indeed house a functional third eye. Even today, several reptile and amphibian species retain a so-called 'parietal eye', a barely detectable photo-sensitive part of the epithalamus which helps the animals to regulate their circadian rhythms and body temperature. The owner of the most pronounced of these surviving 'third eyes' is the tuatara, a small lizard-like reptile native to New Zealand, which is often referred to as a 'living fossil' owing to the fact that in some respects it has changed very little since the Mesozoic era. Situated in the centre of its forehead, the tuatara's parietal eye is particularly well-developed, having a lens, cornea and retina." Of course, the original Silurians' third eye was some sort of energy weapon and could burn through hundreds of meters of solid rock, and in Warriors of the Deep it flashed when they talked for some reason, but I wouldn't want Doctor Who to be too realistic. |
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Post by beccaelizabeth on Jun 19, 2010 5:16:17 GMT -5
Hrm. I spent most of this episode (okay, the breaks) arguing with Dave about the Doctor being a sociopath. My position: you have to be human to be a sociopath. And also, it's not that he lacks empathy; he's just so far beyond humans, socially and mentally, that it's a whole different type of empathy. I conceded, though, that immortal beings tend to be rather cavalier with the lives of the mortals with whom they associate. And, while I'm busy defending him, the Doctor lets a child go back out into the night, alone, with the monsters, so that he can get his earphones. Way to undermine my argument, Doc. That's exactly what I thought, but on re-watching the episode I found that isn't what actually happens. Elliot goes to get his headphones some time before the Silurians darken the dome or arrive on the surface. It's still daylight and most of the adults are still outside setting up the security perimeter. In fact, the reason it's a shock that Elliot isn't in the church later is because, in that scene, it seems like he is in little danger. The Doctor was wrong and was suitably horrified, but it isn't quite as bad as it seems. BTW, the issue of his responsibility in this matter is resolved through some dialogue next ep. When Elliot says "I left my headphones at home" the Doctor is staring at a screen that we then cut to. It says "Time Remaining 01:00" then "00:59". It's still daylight, the adults are outside, but the Doctor's screen is telling them they have less than one minute left before the bad things arrive. Letting anyone go fetch things is only reasonable if it takes them less than 20 seconds to get to where they're stored. And Elliot could not be expected to figure this out if he's unable to read the number. I read this next to the Doctor saying 'Good lad' to the grandfather, and also combined with him calling himself a kid in previous eps when he's ages many humans wouldn't reach, like 90 when he visited the Medusa Cascade. The thing is, from the Doctor's point of view, we're all children. So he treats children like small adults, because he's treating us all the same. And that includes letting them run off into danger, and saving them when they've done that. Not what we'd call wise or responsible, but by the standards of his species it's what he does all the time. ... his species must think he's a creep. Unless they think of humans as somewhat more intelligent pets. By his home world's standards even Romana wasn't precisely an actual grown up, she'd only just finished being a student. Kid sidekicks the lot of them. |
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Post by Riff on Jun 19, 2010 7:59:28 GMT -5
That's exactly what I thought, but on re-watching the episode I found that isn't what actually happens. Elliot goes to get his headphones some time before the Silurians darken the dome or arrive on the surface. It's still daylight and most of the adults are still outside setting up the security perimeter. In fact, the reason it's a shock that Elliot isn't in the church later is because, in that scene, it seems like he is in little danger. The Doctor was wrong and was suitably horrified, but it isn't quite as bad as it seems. BTW, the issue of his responsibility in this matter is resolved through some dialogue next ep. When Elliot says "I left my headphones at home" the Doctor is staring at a screen that we then cut to. It says "Time Remaining 01:00" then "00:59". It's still daylight, the adults are outside, but the Doctor's screen is telling them they have less than one minute left before the bad things arrive. Letting anyone go fetch things is only reasonable if it takes them less than 20 seconds to get to where they're stored. And Elliot could not be expected to figure this out if he's unable to read the number. I read this next to the Doctor saying 'Good lad' to the grandfather, and also combined with him calling himself a kid in previous eps when he's ages many humans wouldn't reach, like 90 when he visited the Medusa Cascade. The thing is, from the Doctor's point of view, we're all children. So he treats children like small adults, because he's treating us all the same. And that includes letting them run off into danger, and saving them when they've done that. Not what we'd call wise or responsible, but by the standards of his species it's what he does all the time. ... his species must think he's a creep. Unless they think of humans as somewhat more intelligent pets. By his home world's standards even Romana wasn't precisely an actual grown up, she'd only just finished being a student. Kid sidekicks the lot of them. "The old man prefers the company of the young, does he not?" Perhaps that's one of the reasons children tend to like him. In certain ways he treats them as "adults" (whether that's actually approprate or not). From The War Games onwards, many of the Time Lords had attitudes to human beings that were patronising at best. Except when it came to Andred's feelings for Leela, but who can blame him? |
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Jun 19, 2010 17:22:02 GMT -5
That's exactly what I thought, but on re-watching the episode I found that isn't what actually happens. Elliot goes to get his headphones some time before the Silurians darken the dome or arrive on the surface. It's still daylight and most of the adults are still outside setting up the security perimeter. In fact, the reason it's a shock that Elliot isn't in the church later is because, in that scene, it seems like he is in little danger. The Doctor was wrong and was suitably horrified, but it isn't quite as bad as it seems. BTW, the issue of his responsibility in this matter is resolved through some dialogue next ep. When Elliot says "I left my headphones at home" the Doctor is staring at a screen that we then cut to. It says "Time Remaining 01:00" then "00:59". It's still daylight, the adults are outside, but the Doctor's screen is telling them they have less than one minute left before the bad things arrive. Letting anyone go fetch things is only reasonable if it takes them less than 20 seconds to get to where they're stored. And Elliot could not be expected to figure this out if he's unable to read the number. I read this next to the Doctor saying 'Good lad' to the grandfather, and also combined with him calling himself a kid in previous eps when he's ages many humans wouldn't reach, like 90 when he visited the Medusa Cascade. The thing is, from the Doctor's point of view, we're all children. So he treats children like small adults, because he's treating us all the same. And that includes letting them run off into danger, and saving them when they've done that. Not what we'd call wise or responsible, but by the standards of his species it's what he does all the time. ... his species must think he's a creep. Unless they think of humans as somewhat more intelligent pets. By his home world's standards even Romana wasn't precisely an actual grown up, she'd only just finished being a student. Kid sidekicks the lot of them. On the other hand, I saw the Doctor as so intent on what he was doing that he didn't really focus on what Eliot was saying. Elliot says "I left my headphones at home". The Doctor tells him, off-handedly, to go and get them then, and it seems like the Doctor then shifted focus back to what he was doing and forgot all about Eliot. It's unfortunate, but that does happen in a crisis. Not that I'm excusing the Doctor's neglect, but I don't think it occurred to him that he was talking to a child rather than an adult. I don't think he really understands children at all. Or, more succinctly, what Riff said. |
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Post by Riff on Jun 20, 2010 9:07:31 GMT -5
When Elliot says "I left my headphones at home" the Doctor is staring at a screen that we then cut to. It says "Time Remaining 01:00" then "00:59". It's still daylight, the adults are outside, but the Doctor's screen is telling them they have less than one minute left before the bad things arrive. Letting anyone go fetch things is only reasonable if it takes them less than 20 seconds to get to where they're stored. And Elliot could not be expected to figure this out if he's unable to read the number. I read this next to the Doctor saying 'Good lad' to the grandfather, and also combined with him calling himself a kid in previous eps when he's ages many humans wouldn't reach, like 90 when he visited the Medusa Cascade. The thing is, from the Doctor's point of view, we're all children. So he treats children like small adults, because he's treating us all the same. And that includes letting them run off into danger, and saving them when they've done that. Not what we'd call wise or responsible, but by the standards of his species it's what he does all the time. ... his species must think he's a creep. Unless they think of humans as somewhat more intelligent pets. By his home world's standards even Romana wasn't precisely an actual grown up, she'd only just finished being a student. Kid sidekicks the lot of them. On the other hand, I saw the Doctor as so intent on what he was doing that he didn't really focus on what Eliot was saying. Elliot says "I left my headphones at home". The Doctor tells him, off-handedly, to go and get them then, and it seems like the Doctor then shifted focus back to what he was doing and forgot all about Eliot. It's unfortunate, but that does happen in a crisis. Not that I'm excusing the Doctor's neglect, but I don't think it occurred to him that he was talking to a child rather than an adult. I don't think he really understands children at all. Or, more succinctly, what Riff said. Well, thank you. I think the one thing he does understand about children, if only inadvertently, is their desire to be all grown up. |
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;D OK, bring on the ep!
)
