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Post by Queen E on Jun 10, 2010 19:14:34 GMT -5
Post away!
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Post by Riff on Jun 17, 2010 19:04:44 GMT -5
The episode begins with a voiceover by Eldane (or a desendant of his), the silurian leader, explaining he is to tell a story about “the day a thousand years past” when silurians and humans came to share the earth. This implies that he is speaking from a point in history when the two races have been sharing the planet for a millennium. This may or may not be true, depending on how we interpret it. (The ending of the episode implies that Eldane is actually speaking when the silurians have just woken from a thousand-year sleep. It may be two different people speaking, of course.) Anyway, we’re given a narrative warning at this point, because we hear that the Doctor incurred terrible loses when setting up this peace.
Initially we see something like mythical hell from the silurians (i.e. a subterranean world of sadistic monsters). The scientist Malohkeh’s attempted dissection (vivisection) of Amy, is an example of this, as is the fact that he has already performed this procedure on Mo. Then there is the strange condition that Elliot is being kept in. In regards to this, Amy becomes like the Doctor in the last episode when she reassures Mo: “Trust me. We’ll get him out.”
Nasreen isn’t pleased with the Doctor when he tells the silurians that their three-eyed cousins were all slaughtered by the Brig and UNIT. It was something he was outraged by himself at the time, but to be fair they had just attempted to wipe out the entire human race by biological warfare, and the Brigadier’s actions were understandable if blinkered. As in that first silurian story, we see people from both species who are liberal and prepared to offer the hand of peace, who are mistrustful, and who are openly xenophobic.
Like Midnight, this is very much a story about how people respond under stress. Will they be the “best of humanity”? Ambrose is considerably less, but she is nowhere near as monstrous as the vile character Val in midnight. She has difficulty accepting the silurian’s equal claim to the planet, but it seems likely she would be far more open to the idea if they hadn’t behaved aggressively toward Mo, Elliot, and Tony. While she does reluctantly torture Alaya, she doesn’t actually intend to kill her, and Alaya deliberately goads her into doing it. Note how, like Amy, Rory takes on the Doctor’s qualities in the scene.
As in the original silurian story, there is a kind of triumverate: leader, military commander, scientist. Eldane is balanced and can see the possibilities of a truce with humanity; Restac is xenophobic and intent on genocide (just like Alaya and possibly the entire warrior caste); Malohkeh has an actual affection for humans. Again, this echoes the attitudes from the original 1970 tale. They seem, for me, a little too human. Presumably, these are reptiles that have developed a limbic brain, as is suggested even with Restac in her reaction to Alaya’s death. After all, the female warrior caste all have breasts venom sacs. Malohkeh’s obvious liking for humanity is a little odd when we see that he has been “dissecting” us without anaesthetic and he has captured children and experimented on them also. If I was Mo, I think I’d ask for an apology! Malohkeh says he doesn’t harm the young (unpleasant echoes of the 456, there), but what does he do with them after he has “stored” them, taken samples and slowed down their life cycles?
With his Time Lord spider sense, the Doctor knows that this a tipping point in history and that time is in flux as far as the events of the story and their consequences are concerned. In the three silurian and sea devil stories that have preceded this, he has tried and failed to negotiate a truce. As he says in one of the better moments in Warriors of the Deep (LOL - not just because it’s the very last line), when surveying the massacre all around him, “There should have been a better way.” Now for the first time we get actual negotiations between humans and silurians. I assume this first attempt at discussion isn’t supposed to be actual binding diplomacy in any sense.
Elliot’s, “It’s okay. I forgive you.” to the Doctor is one of the many things that marks him out as the best of humanity. He is shocked at his mother’s killing of Alaya and immediately understands the Doctor’s proposal that the return of the silurian race be made part of culture as “legend or prophecy or religion”. Remarkably, Ambrose is actually given a role in the peace by helping Elliot grow up as a better person than she could be (I can't help thinking he'll be more of an influence on her). Nasreen and Tony are united by staying in the silurian city and entering hybernation. Will we see them again in a thousand years? And will Tony’s mutation become a plot point later?
And so, the season arc! The Doctor is able to reach into the crack to retrieve “shrapnel” from whatever explosion has caused all the mayhem this season. The time energy doesn’t erase him from time as it seems to do to everyone else. Is this some kind of Time Lord immunity? Rory’s death is conspicuous, since he died in the last story, too. Although that was in a dream, not reality. Since this is reality, isn’t it? He actually dies saving the Doctor.
Within the TARDIS, we see the Doctor struggling to help Amy remember Rory. It seems there is no absolute rule here. On the one hand she is a time traveller and her perception allows her to remember such things; on the other, Rory is part of her personal history and so she can forget him. If she concentrates, she will retain memories of him. But is it really that simple? When the Doctor says, “Don’t forget him. If you forget him, you’ll lose him forever … Rory’s only alive in your memory. You must keep hold of him. Rory still lives in your mind,” is it all purely figurative?
“Remember us. Dream of us,” Signora Calvierri said. River Song said they are all fairytales. Amelia becomes Amy because “Amelia” is too fairytale, but Amy dreams of Amelia. “This dream must end.” We have heard that thoughts and dreams may become independent of us. The Angel was alive in Amy’s memory. The Dream Lord confuses dream and reality by reaching into their memories. This means something, but what? Like us, the Doctor in the TARDIS doesn't know.
There is arguably a moment of misdirection at the end. In the final scene, the Doctor is obviously sorrowful not only at losing Rory, but also at Amy forgetting him. We witness his reaction to her seeing her lone future self. After this, we discover that the shrapnel from the explosion is a piece of the TARDIS! So the TARDIS will blow up at some point and fracture time? Tragedy and dread! And so we miss entirely what is inserted here. Remember that final shot in Vampires of Venice, the one that zooms into the TARDIS lock? In between Amy seeing herself and the Doctor seeing the shrapnel, the Doctor says, “Just fix this lock. Keeps… jamming.”
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Jun 19, 2010 22:56:36 GMT -5
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Post by Riff on Jun 20, 2010 9:04:28 GMT -5
I’m making a leap of faith and saying we can trust Mr. Moffat. As in, we can trust him to have an agenda that is ultimately about making us happy, and happy endings only ever work if we’re shown the darkness first. I’m holding on for that, myself.  |
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Jun 20, 2010 10:30:28 GMT -5
I’m making a leap of faith and saying we can trust Mr. Moffat. As in, we can trust him to have an agenda that is ultimately about making us happy, and happy endings only ever work if we’re shown the darkness first. I’m holding on for that, myself. Yeah, well, I trust Joss, but that doesn't mean I trust him to make things come out happy.  Anne, could use a bit less darkness right now  |
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Post by Riff on Jun 20, 2010 11:24:48 GMT -5
Yeah, well, I trust Joss, but that doesn't mean I trust him to make things come out happy. Anne, could use a bit less darkness right now I'm confident. Even though I have no information about what will happen. Even though I’ve religiously avoided spoilers. Even though I’ve seen the first part of the finale and things are very dark indeed. Let’s consider Steven Moffat’s contributions to the series: The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances Everybody lives! Mother and son united! The Doctor and Rose dancing! The Doctor is Father Christmas! The Girl in the Fireplace Erm, let’s put the end of this episode to one side. Ahem. Blink The Angels defeated! Sally gets to meet the Doctor and the puzzle resolves itself! Sally and Larry united as Sparrow and Nightingale! Lucky, lucky, Larry! Silence in the Library/Forrest of the Dead Everyone from the library brought back to life! River Song and the others given an afterlife in a computer system that will last forever! Everyone is saved - even Donna’s pretend children are saved! “Sweet dreams, everyone”! That’s a 75% happy-ending strike rate, so on past form I’m trusting the Moff. In fact, if episode 13 is ultimately bleak, I’ll post a picture of myself dressed as Amy Pond. You see? Confident.  (You’d better not let me down, Moffat…) |
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Jun 20, 2010 12:55:58 GMT -5
Yeah, well, I trust Joss, but that doesn't mean I trust him to make things come out happy. Anne, could use a bit less darkness right now I'm confident. Even though I have no information about what will happen. Even though I’ve religiously avoided spoilers. Even though I’ve seen the first part of the finale and things are very dark indeed. Let’s consider Steven Moffat’s contributions to the series: The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances Everybody lives! Mother and son united! The Doctor and Rose dancing! The Doctor is Father Christmas!The Girl in the Fireplace Erm, let’s put the end of this episode to one side. Ahem. Blink The Angels defeated! Sally gets to meet the Doctor and the puzzle resolves itself! Sally and Larry united as Sparrow and Nightingale! Lucky, lucky, Larry! Silence in the Library/Forrest of the Dead Everyone from the library brought back to life! River Song and the others given an afterlife in a computer system that will last forever! Everyone is saved - even Donna’s pretend children are saved! “Sweet dreams, everyone”! That’s a 75% happy-ending strike rate, so on past form I’m trusting the Moff. In fact, if episode 13 is ultimately bleak, I’ll post a picture of myself dressed as Amy Pond. You see? Confident. (You’d better not let me down, Moffat…) Who gets to choose the outfit?  Afterthought: The Doctor was Father Christmas (which I'd forgotten, very good episode) previously, so when little Amelia prayed to Santa/Father Christmas to fix the crack in her wall and got the Doctor... I don't know what it means, but it's interesting. |
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Post by Riff on Jun 20, 2010 15:18:59 GMT -5
I'm confident. Even though I have no information about what will happen. Even though I’ve religiously avoided spoilers. Even though I’ve seen the first part of the finale and things are very dark indeed. Let’s consider Steven Moffat’s contributions to the series: The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances Everybody lives! Mother and son united! The Doctor and Rose dancing! The Doctor is Father Christmas!The Girl in the Fireplace Erm, let’s put the end of this episode to one side. Ahem. Blink The Angels defeated! Sally gets to meet the Doctor and the puzzle resolves itself! Sally and Larry united as Sparrow and Nightingale! Lucky, lucky, Larry! Silence in the Library/Forrest of the Dead Everyone from the library brought back to life! River Song and the others given an afterlife in a computer system that will last forever! Everyone is saved - even Donna’s pretend children are saved! “Sweet dreams, everyone”! That’s a 75% happy-ending strike rate, so on past form I’m trusting the Moff. In fact, if episode 13 is ultimately bleak, I’ll post a picture of myself dressed as Amy Pond. You see? Confident. (You’d better not let me down, Moffat…) Who gets to choose the outfit? Afterthought: The Doctor was Father Christmas (which I'd forgotten, very good episode) previously, so when little Amelia prayed to Santa/Father Christmas to fix the crack in her wall and got the Doctor... I don't know what it means, but it's interesting.The Santa thing is probably deliberate, but I suspect it's just Moffat being intertextual with himself. Which sounds faintly rude. Speaking of which, I was thinking of a cheeky number with hot pants and- What am I saying? I wasn't thinking of any such thing! |
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Post by Lola m on Jun 23, 2010 18:41:16 GMT -5
Interesting (and kindly, if true) that we get the end before we go thru the rest of the story. That the two races will find a way to get along on Earth. Although, of course, there are those terrible losses for the Doctor. It's a very cool looking underground city, isn't it? Dissected while awake is a very eepsome prosepct. Is the kid in suspended animation or something? Are they making him like the guy up top who's turning into a lizardy Silurian? Here's hoping that Rory can keep her from going all medieval on the Silurian warrior's ass. Something tells me that would End Badly. Captured Silurian is still trying to goad someone into violence, I see. And shouldn't the Silurian scientist guy who specializes in aliens have figured out the Doctor isn't human on his own? Sloppy work, dude! Celery!! Heeeee!!! ;D Amy is all Doctor-like in her exploring, isn't she? So, they didn't kill Doctor and her right off? They're taking them somewhere? Well, there goes the hurting of the prisoner Silurian. Then again, she kept pushing her to do so and threatening and so on. So . . . "We have to be better than this!" "Knew this would come!" Wanted a self-fulfilling prophesy, more like. So, this is all a "prove the humans should all be killed" plan then? Crap! She died. Oooh, but there's dissent in the Silurian ranks about the killing thing! "Ok, sorry. This rescue sure didn't live up to its potential." "I'm glad you're ok!" "Me too! Lizard men, though!"  Ooooh, now we get the head of another branch of Silurians. "We're not monsters. And neither are they." Rory is the voice of reason . . . being like the Doctor too! He's right that they have to be honest about what happened, bring the dead Silurian down. Oooh, I like the traditional "there are fixed points in time" paired with "this is not one of them, this is an opportunity". Cool! Continuity with a twist! "We can't share the planet. No one on the surface is gonna go for that, it's too big a leap!" "Come on - be extraordinary!" What does she want her dad to do? It's going to turn out to be a spectacularly bad idea. Who hoo! The kid is awake! "Well, I've got to be honest with you son. We're in the center of the Earth and there are lizard-men." The negotiation actually sounds like a hell of a deal for the humans and the Silurians. Which of course means it's all going to go to hell as the humans bring the dead Silurian down and the soldiers are all waking up ready to kill all the apes. Oy! Yeah, that all goes rather spectacularly badly. Drill threat and all. Oooh! Am I right and dad is turning into a lizard person perhaps? How does she feel about the destruction of her life's work? Yes, well, let's get to it then.  Oh, he's going to sacrifice some of his people, the ones who won't stand down? Damn. Earth isn't ready, but it should be. A thousand years to get ready to share. Oh, cool! She's staying behind to hibernate with them all. Into the TARDIS! Oh nooo! The crack!! Don't reach in - nooo!! Rory!! Noooooo!! Not just dead, but never was at all. Well, the Doctor really couldn't save Rory's body, it was already almost gone. And no matter how he tried, he couldn't make her remember. "I had to show your son how wrong you were." So he can be the best of humanity, like she couldn't. Oooooooooooooooh!1 So, it was the TARDIS that blows up at some point and causes the time/space crack and rift thingee?? Whoa! |
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Post by Riff on Jun 24, 2010 11:14:13 GMT -5
Yes! That deserves a cheer. Hurray! She does show a number of Doctor-like qualities in this ep, doesn’t she? She even gets in a “ha-hah!” at one point. Absolutely! He shows a level of understanding and responsibility that indicates he’s moved a long way beyond the character he was only three episodes ago. Well, he shouted a bit, but the Doctor was fine, either because he has Time Lord superpowers, or because handkerchiefs (or possibly bowties) make one immune. Is it the end for Rory? Is this actually real? Will all this be rewritten? Who knows? Wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey! |
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Post by Rachael on Jun 27, 2010 18:12:16 GMT -5
*sigh*
I really have only one remark about this ep, other than...Rory's end seemed entirely appropriate somehow, if sad. And the juxtaposition between Rose choosing the Doctor over her earthly boy but winding up stranded with him anyway...and Amy choosing Rory (admittedly a much better prospect, IMO) and then losing him is...interesting.
But what I came to say is this: the Doctor is absolutely adorable in thinking that Ambrose's actions aren't typical of humanity. I have to disagree; what she did was expected and entirely typical of most of humanity. As with any bell curve, the "best of" humanity is going to be a very small number of people indeed.
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Post by Lola m on Jun 27, 2010 21:01:28 GMT -5
*sigh* I really have only one remark about this ep, other than...Rory's end seemed entirely appropriate somehow, if sad. And the juxtaposition between Rose choosing the Doctor over her earthly boy but winding up stranded with him anyway...and Amy choosing Rory (admittedly a much better prospect, IMO) and then losing him is...interesting. But what I came to say is this: the Doctor is absolutely adorable in thinking that Ambrose's actions aren't typical of humanity. I have to disagree; what she did was expected and entirely typical of most of humanity. As with any bell curve, the "best of" humanity is going to be a very small number of people indeed. Indeed. "Best of" kinda automatically means that not many are gonna be in that group, eh? I wonder, though, does the Doctor really think that the actions aren't typical or does he just always hope? |
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Post by Riff on Jul 11, 2010 7:37:53 GMT -5
*sigh* I really have only one remark about this ep, other than...Rory's end seemed entirely appropriate somehow, if sad. And the juxtaposition between Rose choosing the Doctor over her earthly boy but winding up stranded with him anyway...and Amy choosing Rory (admittedly a much better prospect, IMO) and then losing him is...interesting. But what I came to say is this: the Doctor is absolutely adorable in thinking that Ambrose's actions aren't typical of humanity. I have to disagree; what she did was expected and entirely typical of most of humanity. As with any bell curve, the "best of" humanity is going to be a very small number of people indeed. It's interesting, isn't it? There are a number of races in the Doctor Who universe who've been shown to be morally better than us, but it's humans that he likes. When we're at our best he loves us; when we're at our worst he despises us. Perhaps that's part of what makes us interesting to him. I have to agree that Ambrose is typical. She could hardly be described as the worst of humanity. |
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Post by Riff on Jul 11, 2010 7:44:26 GMT -5
*sigh* I really have only one remark about this ep, other than...Rory's end seemed entirely appropriate somehow, if sad. And the juxtaposition between Rose choosing the Doctor over her earthly boy but winding up stranded with him anyway...and Amy choosing Rory (admittedly a much better prospect, IMO) and then losing him is...interesting. But what I came to say is this: the Doctor is absolutely adorable in thinking that Ambrose's actions aren't typical of humanity. I have to disagree; what she did was expected and entirely typical of most of humanity. As with any bell curve, the "best of" humanity is going to be a very small number of people indeed. Indeed. "Best of" kinda automatically means that not many are gonna be in that group, eh? I wonder, though, does the Doctor really think that the actions aren't typical or does he just always hope? It's hard to say. He knows enough about us to realise that we can often be close to evil (and Ambrose hardly fits that description). He certainly does feel disappointed and let down by us quite a bit of the time. Is that because of hope or expectations? |
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