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Post by Lola m on Apr 21, 2005 12:37:54 GMT -5
I totally agree. Although this discussion is probably one for a different thread, I always thought, ok well not until more of his inate character was revealed, that Spike's use of railroad spikes with his victims was because he was made to by Angelus and crew and the creation of Spike was part defense mechanism and part competition with Angelus. Assume the IMO. Well, I always figure that since so many of the episodes reflect back on earlier episodes or foreshadow or figure into future eps, it's natural for the conversations to interwine and wander. ;D In Intervention, for example, as others have mentioned in this thread, we get to see examples of the tender side (and other sides ) of Spike as a lover (some of his sweet behavior with the bot). Also, his loyalty to Buffy and protectiveness of Dawn - not giving in to the torture and revealing Dawn's identity as the key - is a taste of the loyalty and protectivness that led him to vamping his mother in order to save her.
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Post by Onjel on Apr 21, 2005 12:58:17 GMT -5
Well, I always figure that since so many of the episodes reflect back on earlier episodes or foreshadow or figure into future eps, it's natural for the conversations to interwine and wander. ;D In Intervention, for example, as others have mentioned in this thread, we get to see examples of the tender side (and other sides ) of Spike as a lover (some of his sweet behavior with the bot).
Also, his loyalty to Buffy and protectiveness of Dawn - not giving in to the torture and revealing Dawn's identity as the key - is a taste of the loyalty and protectivness that led him to vamping his mother in order to save her.
Right there with ya, scooter! ;D
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Post by Lynn on Apr 21, 2005 14:29:31 GMT -5
Spring, you are right, it wasn't you writing about Spike preparing his crypt in "Smashed"--it was Julia. As I guessed, it was handcuffs (and rose petals!). He likes to go where the woman wants, and he knows "Buffy likes it rough." BUT this is a sex game and consensual. IMO the infamous scene on the balcony in the Bronze is the same thing ("in the dark with me").
Lord, every woman's dream - he wants to please!!!
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Post by Onjel on Apr 21, 2005 14:39:22 GMT -5
Spring, you are right, it wasn't you writing about Spike preparing his crypt in "Smashed"--it was Julia. As I guessed, it was handcuffs (and rose petals!). He likes to go where the woman wants, and he knows "Buffy likes it rough." BUT this is a sex game and consensual. IMO the infamous scene on the balcony in the Bronze is the same thing ("in the dark with me"). Lord, every woman's dream - he wants to please!!! I, too, love the balcony scene in the Bronze. Sigh.
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Post by Lynn on Apr 22, 2005 7:26:46 GMT -5
Since we are sorta on the topic of Spike's treatment of women, what about the scene in Spiral when Tara opens the blinds which burns his hands badly and he says kindly something like "Open the blinds all you want" to the effect it helps with the boredom! Sorry, I like to quote exactly but I have a "real life" to get to.
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Post by SpringSummers on Apr 22, 2005 9:02:17 GMT -5
Spring, you are right, it wasn't you writing about Spike preparing his crypt in "Smashed"--it was Julia. As I guessed, it was handcuffs (and rose petals!). He likes to go where the woman wants, and he knows "Buffy likes it rough." BUT this is a sex game and consensual. IMO the infamous scene on the balcony in the Bronze is the same thing ("in the dark with me"). Lord, every woman's dream - he wants to please!!! OK. That makes more sense. Because I don't think of "cut out scenes" as being representative of anything about the character, since they end up cut out. I do think they represent something about what a particular writer might think, which can be interesting, but since they end up cut out, I don't "count them" when looking at doing my formal analyses. So - my own comment on what the handcuff and rose-petal scene meant about Spike is: It meant nothing about Spike. Spike never did it. Do agree on The Bronze thing: Dark, and not so healthy, and certainly not the move of someone who really selflessly and maturely loved Buffy, but still - very, very hot. At that point in time, those two were at that place. And there ya go.
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Post by SpringSummers on Apr 22, 2005 9:04:07 GMT -5
Since we are sorta on the topic of Spike's treatment of women, what about the scene in Spiral when Tara opens the blinds which burns his hands badly and he says kindly something like "Open the blinds all you want" to the effect it helps with the boredom! Sorry, I like to quote exactly but I have a "real life" to get to. Spike is definitely got a two-sided thing going, when it comes to women. Love/hate, etc. - one thing stays absolutely consistent though: He's very passionate about women, totally drawn to them, can't live without them, is at his best and his worst with them. Whichever face he's showing us, the deep and abiding passion is always there.
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Alexandra
S'cubie
Founder
"You never had it so good as me. Never."
Posts: 108
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Post by Alexandra on Apr 27, 2005 11:32:51 GMT -5
Spike is definitely got a two-sided thing going, when it comes to women. Love/hate, etc. - one thing stays absolutely consistent though: He's very passionate about women, totally drawn to them, can't live without them, is at his best and his worst with them. Whichever face he's showing us, the deep and abiding passion is always there. And didn't James Marsters do such an excellent job of portraying that!! It reminds me of the scene behind the Bronze in Fool for Love when Buffy throws the money at him on the ground. His face transforms from crushed and crumpled hurt, so terribly wounded by her treatment of him, to utter and complete rage at her - all in under ten seconds. One of the best scenes in the series IMHO. My other question is: If the rose petal scene was shown in the UK and Australia, does that mean there is a separate BTVS canon for those countries? Were there any other scenes that made it to other countries but not to the U.S.? (If so, I want them - and why weren't they put into the DVD products as outtakes - sigh - ?) So this gives Joss Whedon a chance to make another DVD product with outtakes - which I'd buy instantly. Alexandra
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Post by Lynn on Apr 27, 2005 13:02:05 GMT -5
What a great idea Alexandra! Outtakes that we never got to see! Someone somewhere must own those scenes that weren't shown here. I would certainly buy up whatever they had.
More on James' ability to show emotion - in "Afterlife" when Spike first sees Buffy on the stairs. When he thought she was lost forever.
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Post by SpringSummers on Apr 27, 2005 20:17:41 GMT -5
And didn't James Marsters do such an excellent job of portraying that!! It reminds me of the scene behind the Bronze in Fool for Love when Buffy throws the money at him on the ground. His face transforms from crushed and crumpled hurt, so terribly wounded by her treatment of him, to utter and complete rage at her - all in under ten seconds. One of the best scenes in the series IMHO. My other question is: If the rose petal scene was shown in the UK and Australia, does that mean there is a separate BTVS canon for those countries? Were there any other scenes that made it to other countries but not to the U.S.? (If so, I want them - and why weren't they put into the DVD products as outtakes - sigh - ?) So this gives Joss Whedon a chance to make another DVD product with outtakes - which I'd buy instantly. Alexandra I've never heard anything conclusive on the scene being shown anywhere . . . I mean, I remember some rumblings about this, but I've never read, say, Joss or one of the writers being quoted about it showing. But ultimately, I'd have to go with my DVDs. They are what Joss authorized as final, in my book.
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Post by Lynn on Apr 28, 2005 8:37:16 GMT -5
I have to agree about sticking with the "canon" for the purposes of the storyline, but now that there are no new episodes ever I am reading some of the fan fiction. Having trouble letting go! But just as scholars would love to see early drafts of "Hamlet" or "Ode to a Grecian Urn" if there were any, I would enjoy any rejects. I saw "Cool Money" that JM did and he played such an affectless character that I only missed Spike. He may never get such a perfect role again.
I apologize for getting off topic of "Intervention."
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