Becoming, Part 1 Discussion

[William the Bloody]

Let the discussion begin!

[Spaced Out Looney]

Some thoughts on this analysis:

What does it all mean? We see Angel before and after, Buffy before and after, and most disturbingly – Dru, before and after. How terribly sad it is to listen to an innocent Drusilla sob to Angel in the confessional: "I don’t want to be an evil thing!"

This is such a poignant scene, and it makes me think of Spike everytime I watch it. He never states this directly, but by the end of season 6 he's practically screaming in subtext "I want to be good! I don't want to be an Evil Thing!"

But neither did Buffy want to have "a destiny", and Angel, who only wanted to see the world, spends 90 years in isolation. And when Willow suggests that she do the spell to re-ensoul Angel, Giles tells her that "channeling such potent magicks through yourself . . . it could open a door you may not be able to close." That seems to be the last thing Willow wants: "Big ‘no’ to danger," she says. Sorry about your luck there, Will.

Willow and danger: there's a progression in the series that starts with this episode. By the end of season 3, she "eats danger for breakfast." And in season 6, when Willow and Amy are talking about Racks: Willow asks, "Is it dangerous?" and Amy responds, "Would that stop you?"

Final sidenote, I did find it interesting that Buffy pre-Slayerness had klepto issues, probably in response to her parents relationship problems, much as Dawn's later klepto issues are in reponse to Buffy's dysfunctional parenting.

[SpringSummers]

Spaced said:

Some thoughts on this analysis:



This is such a poignant scene, and it makes me think of Spike everytime I watch it. He never states this directly, but by the end of season 6 he's practically screaming in subtext "I want to be good! I don't want to be an Evil Thing!"

Yes - the way Spike reacts to Buffy calling him an "Evil Thing" . . . you can see how conflicted he is; how it is all getting to him until he ends up, as you say, practically screaming at the end of Season 6.

Willow and danger: there's a progression in the series that starts with this episode. By the end of season 3, she "eats danger for breakfast." And in season 6, when Willow and Amy are talking about Racks: Willow asks, "Is it dangerous?" and Amy responds, "Would that stop you?"

Final sidenote, I did find it interesting that Buffy pre-Slayerness had klepto issues, probably in response to her parents relationship problems, much as Dawn's later klepto issues are in reponse to Buffy's dysfunctional parenting.

Love the Willow/danger comments. Nice catch. And the klepto-issues as well - I had never noticed.

[where they teach lunch]

Hey all!

I re-watched S2 recently and noticed that the season is bookended by the same mini-plot.

In 2.1 Buffy gets a message from a vampire that she needs to meet them to save a life (Cordelia's). Despite warnings from her friends (Willow: "P.S. This is a trap?") Buffy leaves them in the library and goes off to fight alone. When she realises it’s a trap, she runs back to the library to find an injured Xander, and Giles, Willow and Jenny missing.

In 2.21 Buffy gets a message from a vampire ("You will come to him or more will die.") Her friends are more supportive of her going alone than they were in 2.1 (she gets Kendra to guard them) but still somewhat hesitant (Cordelia: "Why don't you just wait here to find out if it worked, see if he phones you?") Buffy leaves them in the library and goes off to fight alone. When she realises it’s a trap, she runs back to the library to find Kendra dead, Willow and Xander injured and Cordelia and Giles missing.

2.21 is long after 2.1, but how much has Buffy learned? She’s still leaving her friends in the library (I wonder if this is significant beyond the library being one of the main sets. Does the library with its books represent knowledge/hard truths etc that Buffy runs from? In 2.1 she literally runs away from knowledge, not waiting for Giles to check his translation before running off).

We don’t notice it as much in 2.21 because she’s “normal” Buffy (as opposed to 2.1’s “bad” Buffy – there’s another post or 20 right there!) and her friends are behind her, but – as in 2.1 – isn’t Buffy dashing off before seeing the bigger picture? I always think of “I Only Have Eyes For You” – the episode and the song - during the Buffy/Angelus fight in this episode:

Buffy: Come on. Let's finish this. You and me.
Angelus: Y-you never learn, do you? This wasn't about you. This was never about you.

Buffy only has eyes for Angel, and is still trying to make everything about them. As he’s Angelus now the only way she can do this is by fighting him (and we all know how fighting and sex will get mixed up later in the series).

There’s a quote (I forget the episode) about how Angelus is like Angel in that he’s obsessed with Buffy, how much is he really? We hear what Angelus did to Drusilla before turning her – don’t his games with Buffy seem a bit half-hearted in comparison (killing Willow’s fish!?) I always see Angelus as giving up on or plain getting bored of torturing Buffy as S2 progresses, and moving on to the bigger plan of “making history…end”. All she is to Angelus by this point is the good guy who could get in the way of his plan.

[Michelle]

Sept 8, 2010 7:06:57 GMT -5 @where they teach lunch said:

Hey all!

I re-watched S2 recently and noticed that the season is bookended by the same mini-plot.

In 2.1 Buffy gets a message from a vampire that she needs to meet them to save a life (Cordelia's). Despite warnings from her friends (Willow: "P.S. This is a trap?") Buffy leaves them in the library and goes off to fight alone. When she realises it’s a trap, she runs back to the library to find an injured Xander, and Giles, Willow and Jenny missing.

In 2.21 Buffy gets a message from a vampire ("You will come to him or more will die.") Her friends are more supportive of her going alone than they were in 2.1 (she gets Kendra to guard them) but still somewhat hesitant (Cordelia: "Why don't you just wait here to find out if it worked, see if he phones you?") Buffy leaves them in the library and goes off to fight alone. When she realises it’s a trap, she runs back to the library to find Kendra dead, Willow and Xander injured and Cordelia and Giles missing.

2.21 is long after 2.1, but how much has Buffy learned? She’s still leaving her friends in the library (I wonder if this is significant beyond the library being one of the main sets. Does the library with its books represent knowledge/hard truths etc that Buffy runs from? In 2.1 she literally runs away from knowledge, not waiting for Giles to check his translation before running off).

We don’t notice it as much in 2.21 because she’s “normal” Buffy (as opposed to 2.1’s “bad” Buffy – there’s another post or 20 right there!) and her friends are behind her, but – as in 2.1 – isn’t Buffy dashing off before seeing the bigger picture? I always think of “I Only Have Eyes For You” – the episode and the song - during the Buffy/Angelus fight in this episode:

Buffy: Come on. Let's finish this. You and me.
Angelus: Y-you never learn, do you? This wasn't about you. This was never about you.

Buffy only has eyes for Angel, and is still trying to make everything about them. As he’s Angelus now the only way she can do this is by fighting him (and we all know how fighting and sex will get mixed up later in the series).

There’s a quote (I forget the episode) about how Angelus is like Angel in that he’s obsessed with Buffy, how much is he really? We hear what Angelus did to Drusilla before turning her – don’t his games with Buffy seem a bit half-hearted in comparison (killing Willow’s fish!?) I always see Angelus as giving up on or plain getting bored of torturing Buffy as S2 progresses, and moving on to the bigger plan of “making history…end”. All she is to Angelus by this point is the good guy who could get in the way of his plan.

Great thoughts! Thanks for posting this, and I hope you come back and comment more often.

I think that on the face of it, a souless vampire killing a fish seems a little silly. And this was a show confined by that fact that it was on a fledgling network geared somewhat toward a tween/teen crowd. But I think Joss was very clever in the way he built up to tension culminating with the murders of Jenny Calendar, then Kendra.

Angelus leaving the drawings and killing Willow's fish was a clear warning to Buffy and her friends: If I can get in your house, I can get to you. I'm watching you, and I'm watching the things you love. Kinda creepy, yes?

I totally agree with your comments on how almost from the beginning Buffy mixed fighting and sex. Buffy is the Slayer, and being a Slayer means fighting for what you love, and sometimes fighting with WHO you love.

[SpringSummers]

Sept 8, 2010 7:06:57 GMT -5 @where they teach lunch said:

Hey all!

I re-watched S2 recently and noticed that the season is bookended by the same mini-plot.

In 2.1 Buffy gets a message from a vampire that she needs to meet them to save a life (Cordelia's). Despite warnings from her friends (Willow: "P.S. This is a trap?") Buffy leaves them in the library and goes off to fight alone. When she realises it’s a trap, she runs back to the library to find an injured Xander, and Giles, Willow and Jenny missing.

In 2.21 Buffy gets a message from a vampire ("You will come to him or more will die.") Her friends are more supportive of her going alone than they were in 2.1 (she gets Kendra to guard them) but still somewhat hesitant (Cordelia: "Why don't you just wait here to find out if it worked, see if he phones you?") Buffy leaves them in the library and goes off to fight alone. When she realises it’s a trap, she runs back to the library to find Kendra dead, Willow and Xander injured and Cordelia and Giles missing.

2.21 is long after 2.1, but how much has Buffy learned? She’s still leaving her friends in the library (I wonder if this is significant beyond the library being one of the main sets. Does the library with its books represent knowledge/hard truths etc that Buffy runs from? In 2.1 she literally runs away from knowledge, not waiting for Giles to check his translation before running off).

We don’t notice it as much in 2.21 because she’s “normal” Buffy (as opposed to 2.1’s “bad” Buffy – there’s another post or 20 right there!) and her friends are behind her, but – as in 2.1 – isn’t Buffy dashing off before seeing the bigger picture? I always think of “I Only Have Eyes For You” – the episode and the song - during the Buffy/Angelus fight in this episode:

Buffy: Come on. Let's finish this. You and me.
Angelus: Y-you never learn, do you? This wasn't about you. This was never about you.

Buffy only has eyes for Angel, and is still trying to make everything about them. As he’s Angelus now the only way she can do this is by fighting him (and we all know how fighting and sex will get mixed up later in the series).

There’s a quote (I forget the episode) about how Angelus is like Angel in that he’s obsessed with Buffy, how much is he really? We hear what Angelus did to Drusilla before turning her – don’t his games with Buffy seem a bit half-hearted in comparison (killing Willow’s fish!?) I always see Angelus as giving up on or plain getting bored of torturing Buffy as S2 progresses, and moving on to the bigger plan of “making history…end”. All she is to Angelus by this point is the good guy who could get in the way of his plan.

Definitely agree on the "you fell for it again" thing - Angel is using his knowledge of Buffy's intense focus on herself and their relationship to manipulate her.

He does seem to have a continuing obsession with Buffy, even soulless - ending history is an ultimate way to mess with the world-saving Slayer. And it puffs up his own ego. One thing is for sure, whether he's bored with, or still into Buffy at that time - he's most definitely into himself.

Thanks for posting your interesting thoughts on this.