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Post by Sue on Nov 6, 2012 5:41:50 GMT -5
Let's hear it: What do you think of an opposite sex couple's (like Kristen Bell and Dax Shepard) decision not to marry until their state allows gay marriages? I confess I have varied reactions to it. On the one hand, I can respect the committment to marriage equality for all. But on the other, it sounds so . . . pretentious and very much like a public excuse for what is surely a private reason. Bear with me, I'm still trying to sort this out in my head . . . what do gays think of such "protests?" I wonder. Do they feel supported, or used? Say back in the day when interracial marriage was against the law, I wanted to marry a black man. And some good friends of ours, a "one race" couple, told me "We won't get married unless you can, too!" What would I think of that? Would I feel grateful and supported, or I would be suspicious of their true, underlying (maybe subconscious) motives? After all, what good are they doing me and my sweetheart, by not marrying? And why would they think that it would hurt us or our cause in any way, for them to marry? Would I urge them to marry or to stick with their pledge not to marry? Honestly, I think I would feel rather . . . intruded upon. Eh, their POV, their decision -- I have no issues with their choice. Doesn't affect me and doesn't harm anyone else. Don't see that it should offend anyone else, but then I also don't get to decide who gets offended by what. Still, as "protests" go it seems a little "cut off my nose to spite my face-ish" -- but only because as a big supporter of marriage I don't think NOT getting married is the way to go. Still, I have no issues with them having their own opinion. I also have no issue with celebrities expressing their opinions as long as they stick with "this is MY opinion, as a human being I can express it but that doesn't mean that I think the mere fact of my celebrity means I expect you to follow or agree with me. You (media, fans) are the whack-adoes who think you need to know what I think about everything."
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Post by Sue on Nov 6, 2012 5:42:45 GMT -5
And, maybe after today or tomorrow is a fitting time to close out this OT thread and start a new one?
After the election stuff is over maybe?
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 6, 2012 10:34:58 GMT -5
Let's hear it: What do you think of an opposite sex couple's (like Kristen Bell and Dax Shepard) decision not to marry until their state allows gay marriages? I confess I have varied reactions to it. On the one hand, I can respect the committment to marriage equality for all. But on the other, it sounds so . . . pretentious and very much like a public excuse for what is surely a private reason. Bear with me, I'm still trying to sort this out in my head . . . what do gays think of such "protests?" I wonder. Do they feel supported, or used? Say back in the day when interracial marriage was against the law, I wanted to marry a black man. And some good friends of ours, a "one race" couple, told me "We won't get married unless you can, too!" What would I think of that? Would I feel grateful and supported, or I would be suspicious of their true, underlying (maybe subconscious) motives? After all, what good are they doing me and my sweetheart, by not marrying? And why would they think that it would hurt us or our cause in any way, for them to marry? Would I urge them to marry or to stick with their pledge not to marry? Honestly, I think I would feel rather . . . intruded upon. Well, I can see your point. But Kristen Bell isn't the first person I've heard this from; I've got a friend who has expressed the same thing about herself and her partner, and it is very personal, in terms of knowing, through friends of theirs who want to get married and can't and the hurt it causes those friends. It could also be using their celebrity to advance a cause they feel strongly about. Honestly, I don't know whether it is sincere or using or both. So, my comment wasn't very helpful, was it? In the end, whether or not a couple gets married is an extremely personal decision, and their reasons are personal too - it's all up to them, etc. It is hard for me to imagine feeling hurt because my friends got married, and I can't. I have gay friends, including a couple that has been together for over 10 yrs . . . I can't imagine them feeling hurt by me getting married, I really can't. They're my friends! They'd be happy for anything that would make me happy. They know I support them . . . Mostly, it is just hard for me to relate to this decision. As I said, I'm still thinking this through . . . NOW, I would be angry at friends who joined a club say, where Italians were not allowed (can you imagine, Erin? That would be one dull club, no? ) . . . but say I knew they were campaigning hard to end the discrimination? Would I be OK with it then? Probably not. Is this different? Is getting married like joining a club? Yes, and no. More thought needed.
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 6, 2012 10:38:14 GMT -5
Let's hear it: What do you think of an opposite sex couple's (like Kristen Bell and Dax Shepard) decision not to marry until their state allows gay marriages? I confess I have varied reactions to it. On the one hand, I can respect the committment to marriage equality for all. But on the other, it sounds so . . . pretentious and very much like a public excuse for what is surely a private reason. Bear with me, I'm still trying to sort this out in my head . . . what do gays think of such "protests?" I wonder. Do they feel supported, or used? Say back in the day when interracial marriage was against the law, I wanted to marry a black man. And some good friends of ours, a "one race" couple, told me "We won't get married unless you can, too!" What would I think of that? Would I feel grateful and supported, or I would be suspicious of their true, underlying (maybe subconscious) motives? After all, what good are they doing me and my sweetheart, by not marrying? And why would they think that it would hurt us or our cause in any way, for them to marry? Would I urge them to marry or to stick with their pledge not to marry? Honestly, I think I would feel rather . . . intruded upon. Eh, their POV, their decision -- I have no issues with their choice. Doesn't not affect me and doesn't harm anyone else. Don't see that it should offend anyone else, but then I also don't get to decide who gets offended by what. Still, as "protests" go it seems a little "cut of my nose to spite my face-ish" -- but only because as a big supporter of marriage I don't think NOT getting married is the way to go. Still, I have no issues with them having their own opinion. I also have no issue with celebrities expressing their opinions as long as they stick with "this is MY opinion, as a human being I can express it but that doesn't mean that I think the mere fact of my celebrity means I expect you to follow or agree with me. You (media, fans) are the whack-adoes who think you need to know what I think about everything." Oh, I don't really have "issues" with them doing this. It is totally their business. I don't think it should be looked down upon or discouraged or anything like that . . . but when I read about it, I just got that sort of "hmmmmm" feeling I got when reading the same thing about Brad and Angelina. And I was curious what people here thought, because you are all good thinkers, and I can tell that I haven't quite thought this through to my satisfaction.
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 6, 2012 10:42:21 GMT -5
And, maybe after today or tomorrow is a fitting time to close out this OT thread and start a new one? After the election stuff is over maybe? T'would be good timing. Have gotten two calls from Barack himself this morning! That's a first. He's urging me to vote, telling me it will make all the difference for us to keep the country moving forward! Yes, that's right, it's up to us . . . i.e., Barack and me! I would love to just go vote, but I think it will be worth it to wait on the girls. Nicole (elder one, alias) got very scornful of the whole thing last night, saying she was never going to vote, all politicians were liars and it was stupid to vote, and other stuff she has heard from somewhere. But I have a feeling once she sees the polling place, she will find it pretty interesting. The younger one, "Roxanne," is already interested.
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Post by Julia, wrought iron-y on Nov 6, 2012 11:32:21 GMT -5
Let's hear it: What do you think of an opposite sex couple's (like Kristen Bell and Dax Shepard) decision not to marry until their state allows gay marriages? I confess I have varied reactions to it. On the one hand, I can respect the committment to marriage equality for all. But on the other, it sounds so . . . pretentious and very much like a public excuse for what is surely a private reason. Bear with me, I'm still trying to sort this out in my head . . . what do gays think of such "protests?" I wonder. Do they feel supported, or used? Say back in the day when interracial marriage was against the law, I wanted to marry a black man. And some good friends of ours, a "one race" couple, told me "We won't get married unless you can, too!" What would I think of that? Would I feel grateful and supported, or I would be suspicious of their true, underlying (maybe subconscious) motives? After all, what good are they doing me and my sweetheart, by not marrying? And why would they think that it would hurt us or our cause in any way, for them to marry? Would I urge them to marry or to stick with their pledge not to marry? Honestly, I think I would feel rather . . . intruded upon. After today, they could move to Washington? Julia, awaiting a wave of marriages: Kathi and Barb, Darcy and Catherine...
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 6, 2012 14:35:12 GMT -5
Let's hear it: What do you think of an opposite sex couple's (like Kristen Bell and Dax Shepard) decision not to marry until their state allows gay marriages? I confess I have varied reactions to it. On the one hand, I can respect the committment to marriage equality for all. But on the other, it sounds so . . . pretentious and very much like a public excuse for what is surely a private reason. Bear with me, I'm still trying to sort this out in my head . . . what do gays think of such "protests?" I wonder. Do they feel supported, or used? Say back in the day when interracial marriage was against the law, I wanted to marry a black man. And some good friends of ours, a "one race" couple, told me "We won't get married unless you can, too!" What would I think of that? Would I feel grateful and supported, or I would be suspicious of their true, underlying (maybe subconscious) motives? After all, what good are they doing me and my sweetheart, by not marrying? And why would they think that it would hurt us or our cause in any way, for them to marry? Would I urge them to marry or to stick with their pledge not to marry? Honestly, I think I would feel rather . . . intruded upon. After today, they could move to Washington? Julia, awaiting a wave of marriages: Kathi and Barb, Darcy and Catherine... Let us know how things turn out in Washington. We don't have gay marriage on the ballot this year. Your mention of a wave of marriages makes me wonder though, when I think of the gay couples I know, which would get married if they could. Not sure, really. Though only one couple is close enough that I would really call them "friends," I know four - two female, two male - and they've been together so long, I don't know if they'd rush to make any changes. Maybe. They seem so comfy "as-is," though I can certainly imagine how changing circumstances (a lost job, and illness, insurance and inheritance issues . . .) could motivate them. Here in Ohio, I'm thinking it will be a long while before I find out.
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 6, 2012 17:42:52 GMT -5
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Post by S'ewing S'cubie on Nov 6, 2012 21:14:28 GMT -5
That's him. Bloated and full of hot air.
I hate this election. I'm sick of the stress. I'm sick of the division. I'm sick of lies and distortions and watching wierdos in the woodwork.
I hate that the outcome will decide my grandchildren's futures or maybe lack of them.
I retired from my job because the stress was killing me. Now the candidates have taken over the job of seeing how much they can frighten me.
I hate it all because (to quote some blonde Slayer) it's wrong.
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Post by Sue on Nov 7, 2012 2:15:11 GMT -5
Don't work. Jim's out of town. Can nap during treatment.
So I stayed up.
And watched both speeches.
Most human I've seen Romney. Don't know if his party will listen to him but would love if he tried to lead them to work with the Pres.
[Really like Steve Schmidt, who is the Republican pundit who works on MSNBC.]
Sasha was so cute when she tugged on his suit and made him turn around to wave to the crowd seated behind him.
Great speech. Love the guy. Hope he's able to pull off some big things in the next 4 years.
I'd like to thank Spring and the great state of Ohio. Although it looks like he's going to take 8 out of 9 swing states.
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Post by S'ewing S'cubie on Nov 7, 2012 7:02:57 GMT -5
Went to bed and was watching LOTR when Bob came in and told me Romnibus had conceded. I concede I would have liked to watch Romnumnums concede but I had already conceded to being tired so further concessions were un-concess-ful.
Diane *clearly burned out*
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Post by Sue on Nov 7, 2012 10:13:35 GMT -5
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 7, 2012 10:24:15 GMT -5
What a day, for the USA, for so many reasons. The Obamas and Bidens looked great last night. Though you don't hear much about her, I just love Jill Biden - attractive, smart, and I'm guessing she's the reason Joe's feet stay (mostly) on the ground.
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Post by Sue on Nov 7, 2012 10:44:41 GMT -5
What a day, for the USA, for so many reasons. The Obamas and Bidens looked great last night. Though you don't hear much about her, I just love Jill Biden - attractive, smart, and I'm guessing she's the reason Joe's feet stay (mostly) on the ground. And both families look like they really do like each other a whole lot.
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Post by Michelle on Nov 7, 2012 11:27:08 GMT -5
After today, they could move to Washington? Julia, awaiting a wave of marriages: Kathi and Barb, Darcy and Catherine... Let us know how things turn out in Washington. We don't have gay marriage on the ballot this year. Your mention of a wave of marriages makes me wonder though, when I think of the gay couples I know, which would get married if they could. Not sure, really. Though only one couple is close enough that I would really call them "friends," I know four - two female, two male - and they've been together so long, I don't know if they'd rush to make any changes. Maybe. They seem so comfy "as-is," though I can certainly imagine how changing circumstances (a lost job, and illness, insurance and inheritance issues . . .) could motivate them. Here in Ohio, I'm thinking it will be a long while before I find out. They may be comfy as-is, but I imagine it would be nice for some couples to be able to make the same decision that you and I have the option to make -- to get married. Also, I think of how sad it is that Sally Ride's long time partner was barred from any federal benefits--because they were not legally married. I don't claim to be informed on the topic in any way, but I think there are many things that unmarried couples (gay or straight) can't take part in simply because they are unmarried. A straight couple can *decide* to not take advantage of those benefits, whereas a gay couple has no choice because of the laws in their state.
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