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Post by SpringSummers on Dec 3, 2005 12:32:58 GMT -5
If I had to choose just one season to watch and couldn't ever see the others again, I'd shed a tear for "Fool for Love", but I'd have to choose the 6th season. I actually started watching well into the 6th season so maybe I'm a bit "bent" in that direction. But the interaction of all the characters starts boiling in this season with a depth of character-driven story lines unparalleled in the series IMO. And this season has "Once More with Feeling" - an accomplishment also unparalleled in ANY series history. The character interactions come to a peak in this episode with all players affected. (The fact that Xander actually caused the malevolence has always made me wonder why his behavior and its consequences were just glossed over and not much brought up again in the series. He seemed to get no real backlash for his desertion of Anya at their wedding in "Hell's Bells" either. Maybe Rob can shed some Xanderistic light on this phenomenon.) No matter how long it's been since I've watched an old episode, the minute I start watching any episode I'm immersed completely back into their world with all the nuances and shades of personality and environment I enjoyed the first time around. That definitely does not happen with other reruns I've seen. Amazing. Absolutely amazing. I think having seen the entire series several times, it actually enhances my viewing enjoyment, knowing the full arc of the story of Sunnyvale. Alexandra P.S. And Spike in all his unclothed glory was well worth the wait. Hi Alexandra! Hi! I agree with every word, above. Season Six rocks. It is my favorite and I think it is a favorite of many - if not most. To me, Season Six is what elevated a wonderful show to the truly extraordinary and unique. It was gutsy and risky and imperfect, but it "made" the series in so many ways. And yes, naked Spike was a very nice toudh.
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Post by Lola m on Dec 3, 2005 12:53:27 GMT -5
If I had to choose just one season to watch and couldn't ever see the others again, I'd shed a tear for "Fool for Love", but I'd have to choose the 6th season. I actually started watching well into the 6th season so maybe I'm a bit "bent" in that direction. But the interaction of all the characters starts boiling in this season with a depth of character-driven story lines unparalleled in the series IMO. And this season has "Once More with Feeling" - an accomplishment also unparalleled in ANY series history. The character interactions come to a peak in this episode with all players affected. (The fact that Xander actually caused the malevolence has always made me wonder why his behavior and its consequences were just glossed over and not much brought up again in the series. He seemed to get no real backlash for his desertion of Anya at their wedding in "Hell's Bells" either. Maybe Rob can shed some Xanderistic light on this phenomenon.) No matter how long it's been since I've watched an old episode, the minute I start watching any episode I'm immersed completely back into their world with all the nuances and shades of personality and environment I enjoyed the first time around. That definitely does not happen with other reruns I've seen. Amazing. Absolutely amazing. I think having seen the entire series several times, it actually enhances my viewing enjoyment, knowing the full arc of the story of Sunnyvale. Alexandra P.S. And Spike in all his unclothed glory was well worth the wait. Hi Alexandra! Hi! I agree with every word, above. Season Six rocks. It is my favorite and I think it is a favorite of many - if not most. To me, Season Six is what elevated a wonderful show to the truly extraordinary and unique. It was gutsy and risky and imperfect, but it "made" the series in so many ways. And yes, naked Spike was a very nice toudh. **nods nods nods** Season six went to places that very very few shows will ever go in terms of depth and complexity. Imperfect, yes, but at least challenging and exciting and emotional and meaningful. When you stretch that much you risk not always pulling it off perfectly, but you also gain so much.
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Post by Queen E on Jun 2, 2009 22:03:24 GMT -5
It's amazing that this episode doesn't get any less awesome as time goes by...
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Post by Lola m on Jun 2, 2009 22:27:15 GMT -5
Well, I've decided to just burble and squee and enjoy in this post. They'll be plenty of time to analyze later. ;D Heck, maybe I'll even do my analyzing to the Joss commentary. Man, I love the overture "what's going on with everyone" opening scenes. They always got cut when FX showed it and had to edit for time. Singing dancing demons! Hee! I love curly horned dude. Also? Their dorky arm-swining happy dance? Funny! Donut humor. ;D Also always cut by FX. And my fave exclamation of "Merciful Zeus!" Jazz hands! ;D ;D Bunnies!!!!!!!! **rocks out** "The same old tricks, why should we care?" Oh, Buffy! And then the looks between her and Giles. Dry cleaning choreography! Woot!! Blow the whole thing wide open. Oh, the pretty pretty (and extremely improbable and therefore oh so musical theater) outfit that Tara wears. "Now I'm bathed in light . . ." So gorgeous!! And then you listen to what the words are really saying about what's going on between them . . . And then, the magical sex! Yay!! Tap tap tap, burn burn burn. Anya and Xander's song! I love this one! Skeezy cheeses! Penis got diseases! "Mayhem caused, Monsters certainly not involved, officials say." (heeeeeee!!) This is my verse, hello! "Look at me, I'm dancin' crazy!" **does charleston along with them** And their Nick and Nora outfits are just too fun. Retro pastiche. Heeee! Parking ticket song, the dancing bystanders and the "witness arias". I love those little touches. Ooooh, Spike and Buffy. **settles in for the nummy** God, I love how he is sooooo not happy when he starts singing. "Whisper in a dead man's ear, it doesn't make it real . . . " Oh my I love the "willin' slave" down on his knees thing. **goes to happy place where I misbehave** Actually, my favorite part of the song is the part from "I know, I should go" up to "so leave me be". And now the sad stuff begins. Oh, Tara! Dancing Dawn! Yay! (They always cut the dance on FX too. Grrrr!) Sweet's song!! **joyful squeeing** Such a great jazzy song. "All those hearts lay open, that must sting . . . " Oh, yeah! Love this song! '80's power ballad, coming right up. Love love love this song, and then how it merges with Tara and her and Giles duet and, god, just. So. Good! Buffy really is distancing more and more. Including in the opening, when she was all "I guess Dawn got off to school, I dunno, whatever . . ." I really like the combination of slo-mo and regular speed, one more thing separating Giles and Buffy. "I'm under your spell . . . " "Wish I could trust that it was just this once . . . " Oh, the fire songs! Love this. All the threads of song coming together, all the overlapping images, building to the big fire truck door smashing finish thingy. **shivers with the awesomeness** "What if I kill you?" "Trust me, won't help." Ohhhh, yes. Life's a show - break that fourth wall! Knowing that it ends, well that depends . . . Oh the looks on their faces when she says where she thinks she was . . . Life is just this. It's living. **nods** This is what the season is telling us, in it most simple, most basic, most clear cut way. Now you know the slasher in me loves that Xander was the musical theater guy . . . That tempter. "All those secrets you've been concealing, say you're happy now, once more with feeling." God, I love this! And then? Un- com-fortable! Ooooh! Kiss! Kiss!! Kiss!!! Mmmmmmmm. S'nice. **bounces bounces bounces**
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Post by Queen E on Jun 6, 2009 7:17:41 GMT -5
It is beautifully constructed, this episode. The widescreen, the new titles, the colors and saturation. Not to mention the mix of humor and sadness, the ability of the episode to stand alone and advance the arc.
Brilliant.
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Post by SpringSummers on Jun 6, 2009 10:04:36 GMT -5
It is beautifully constructed, this episode. The widescreen, the new titles, the colors and saturation. Not to mention the mix of humor and sadness, the ability of the episode to stand alone and advance the arc. Brilliant. I have got to get to my reviews, if for no other reason than to get to THIS ONE! I have noticed so many touches over the years, there is soooo much going on in the episode. . . . oh, oh, oh!!! I am still working on getting temp help at work, and looks like MAYBE by July 1. In the meantime, I'm working evenings, and weekends . . . but you know what they say: Wheel never stops turning.
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Post by S'ewing S'cubie on Jun 10, 2009 15:59:48 GMT -5
I adore the lyrics in this episode. Most of the actors have good to excellent voices but I think I love the dancing just as much. The whole of Dawn's ballet is just wonderful.
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Post by luvmyfirefly on Jun 15, 2009 22:57:05 GMT -5
I love, love, LURVE Hinton Battle as Sweet. Some how he makes crazy-pointy-chin lobster skin guy (with a detachable mouth, no less) HAWT!
R.I.P? Positively volcanic. When he drops to his knees on that "willing slave" line and completely eyefucks her? The girl must be wearing asbestos panties is all I'm sayin.
Giles will NEVER want Spike's opinion? These guys do not know the valuable resources they are wasting because they keep discounting Spike and Anya.
And the most lustful, loyal (not to mention combustible) member of the pack saves her. And some kiss!
Can I ask those of you who watched the show when it originally aired, did fandom just go apeshit at that kiss or what?
This episode is so amazing on so many levels. I think if I HAD to pick one episode as a stand alone favorite it would be this one. (Unless I wanted a funny one in which case it would probably be Something Blue. Or an Angel one in which case it would probably be Passion. But what about Fool for Love? HOW CAN YOU CHOOSE JUST ONE??)
Seriously, I think I'm going to buy the soundtrack of this episode just so I can sing along to it in the car like a huge dork.
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Post by KMInfinity on Jun 16, 2009 8:09:03 GMT -5
I love, love, LURVE Hinton Battle as Sweet. Some how he makes crazy-pointy-chin lobster skin guy (with a detachable mouth, no less) HAWT! R.I.P? Positively volcanic. When he drops to his knees on that "willing slave" line and completely eyefucks her? The girl must be wearing asbestos panties is all I'm sayin. Giles will NEVER want Spike's opinion? These guys do not know the valuable resources they are wasting because they keep discounting Spike and Anya. Big agree to all of this. I had a weird viewing experience. I started watching S5 after seeing Hush in repeats, and didn't really get into the online fanbase much until S7, so what I mostly remember is the critical press raving about the episode....and Josh getting screwed by the Emmy people. Funny you bring this up. They're debating this exact issue on Whedonesque today because OMWF has been named the 14th best TV episode of ALL TIME this week in TV Guide. Lots of posters are making the case that OMWF hasn't held up well, or while great, isn't the very best Buffy episode, preferring The Body, or Hush, or Becoming, or.....well, you can see where this is going.... Right now the link only shows episodes 60-80. The entire list is in the street mag. www.tvguidemagazine.com/feature/tvs-top-100-episodes-of-all-time-80-61-1415.htmlBTW - Angel's "I Will Remember You" placed 78th. Most W-squers disagree that's the best Angel episode. Best comment by a poster: It's the best Buffy episode never made. Been there, done that, still doing it. Liked this article from a *non-Whedonverse* source. I can't tell if it came out the next day, 11/7/2001, or she's reflecting back to the day the episode aired. archive.salon.com/ent/tv/feature/2001/11/07/buffy_musical/index.htmlI came across this site that's dedicated to OMWF - among other things it lists press articles from November of 2001 about the episode. musical.chosentwo.com/press.php
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Post by Lola m on Jun 16, 2009 21:21:40 GMT -5
I adore the lyrics in this episode. Most of the actors have good to excellent voices but I think I love the dancing just as much. The whole of Dawn's ballet is just wonderful. I do love her ballet. I was always disappointed to watch on FX, because they always cut it.
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Post by Lola m on Jun 16, 2009 21:31:30 GMT -5
I love, love, LURVE Hinton Battle as Sweet. Some how he makes crazy-pointy-chin lobster skin guy (with a detachable mouth, no less) HAWT! **nods** And the suits! Merciful Zeus, the glorious suits!! Sing it, sister! ;D **nods** I think it's not just they fact they are/were demons, but that they are each so annoying to Giles in their own way. ;D I always thought Wes (Wes in later years on AtS, of course) was a bit more sensible in the way he dealt with useful demons. Of course, Wes was even more disillusioned and disgraced with the official Watcher way of doing things than Giles was. Also? Snarking can be foreplay and opposites can attract, too. It's why I like Giles/Anya as a pairing. Or, for that matter, Giles/Spike. I was watching BtVS in real time when season 6 aired, but I must confess, I was only lurking in fandom at the time, and only a bit. My recollection was some extreme reaction, both in the "yay" and "ick" camps, and lots of "it's part of the season, interesting storyline" middle-of-the-road-ness. ;D
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Post by Lola m on Jun 16, 2009 21:38:45 GMT -5
I love, love, LURVE Hinton Battle as Sweet. Some how he makes crazy-pointy-chin lobster skin guy (with a detachable mouth, no less) HAWT! R.I.P? Positively volcanic. When he drops to his knees on that "willing slave" line and completely eyefucks her? The girl must be wearing asbestos panties is all I'm sayin. Giles will NEVER want Spike's opinion? These guys do not know the valuable resources they are wasting because they keep discounting Spike and Anya. Big agree to all of this. I had a weird viewing experience. I started watching S5 after seeing Hush in repeats, and didn't really get into the online fanbase much until S7, so what I mostly remember is the critical press raving about the episode....and Josh getting screwed by the Emmy people. Funny you bring this up. They're debating this exact issue on Whedonesque today because OMWF has been named the 14th best TV episode of ALL TIME this week in TV Guide. Lots of posters are making the case that OMWF hasn't held up well, or while great, isn't the very best Buffy episode, preferring The Body, or Hush, or Becoming, or.....well, you can see where this is going.... Just goes to show how well the whole series stays in the mind though, doesn't it? That everyone is still debating it so hotly? ;D I don't know if I can truly pick a best, or a fave. I can usually only narrow it down to a top 20 or 25, with the top-top spots changing depending on my mood and feelings of the moment. I tend to think that TV Guide also places it high due to it's influence on other shows/creators/writers, etc. There are soooo many other eps of Angel that I would put higher! There is so much arc and storyline and intersting stuff in the Angel-verse, separate from what happened on Buffy. Thanks for all the links!
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Post by beccaelizabeth on Jun 17, 2009 7:17:57 GMT -5
I'm impressed at how much arc stuff went in to this episode while it was making you LOL plus, a musical? not exactly easy. but it fits in exactly where it is and nowhere else, so it's not like he wrote a musical and plunked it in.
Giles and all the "Wish I could play the father" bit is layered, cause he knows he's not, but he wants to fix everything for her, but he thinks he's the problem. Standing in her way. Then up to 'wish I could stay' with him and Tara singing. He's been uncertain about his role in her life at least since they left high school and probably since he got fired, has a whole ambiguous thing where he didn't want to be a Watcher in the first place and already had to watch her die once, but he doesn't sing about how he has to protect himself, he sings about "But now I understand I'm standing in your way." And the idea is everyone's singing true things they'd rather not say out loud, so he believes that. See this is why I don't get people being angry at Giles about leaving. People seem to talk about him like a parent who deserts his kid, but he isn't her father and he can't play the role, he's saying here. And he believes he's the problem, and there's something to that, Buffy leaving things to Giles every time he tries to get her to deal with them jointly. So he leaves. Probably a mistake, but I don't get where all the angry about it comes from.
Tara putting her foot down is win. Sad win, but important. Sticking around when someone you care about is being stupid is not always the right thing to do, specially when they're hurting you in the process.
Leaving isn't always the right thing either though. Giles staying might have made a difference. But nobody was listening to him anyway.
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Post by KMInfinity on Jun 17, 2009 9:09:02 GMT -5
I'm impressed at how much arc stuff went in to this episode while it was making you LOL plus, a musical? not exactly easy. but it fits in exactly where it is and nowhere else, so it's not like he wrote a musical and plunked it in. This is why I still put it in the #1 spot, myself. It's not just a one-off musical, it's essential to the arc, develops plot and character, and is genuinely good. I hope I'm not angry-silly about this issue , but I'm one who thinks it was a mistake for Giles to leave, mostly because...missing ASH, natch. Also, arcwise, I get why he *thinks* he should leave, and maybe it's valid. But I also think this is an example where real life in the case of ASH's wishes might have driven the story to a place it needn't/shouldn't have gone. Because..... I think this season is where the *Big Metaphor* of High School = Hell kinda falls apart. Real life, adult life as isn't as well served by the Slayer metaphor. For example, if Buffy is doing this big, awesome job of protecting the world, she doesn't get help? (damn that Watchers' Council ) She doesn't get a stipend? Firefighters, police officers, social workers - only a few people who have a *calling* to help others, some of whom are even expected to make that ultimate sacrifice if required, but who get paid for their services. When the debate took place about how Buffy should be fiscally solvent, I'm thinking that's a *forced* dilemma created by the writers to Make Their Point About Being An Adult. As it relates to Giles, I think ultimately he would make a different decision about the best way to help Buffy move forward and grow if it weren't for ASH's real-life wishes. Because, to quote Nikki, "It's all about the mission, baby." In my heart of hearts it felt wrong for Giles to remove himself as a support for Buffy. If he truly believes he is "standing in her way" he needs to figure out how to support her without doing that. I just love how the writing and the characters are so complex we can have these discussions.
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Post by beccaelizabeth on Jun 23, 2009 11:38:25 GMT -5
I'm impressed at how much arc stuff went in to this episode while it was making you LOL plus, a musical? not exactly easy. but it fits in exactly where it is and nowhere else, so it's not like he wrote a musical and plunked it in. This is why I still put it in the #1 spot, myself. It's not just a one-off musical, it's essential to the arc, develops plot and character, and is genuinely good. I hope I'm not angry-silly about this issue , but I'm one who thinks it was a mistake for Giles to leave, mostly because...missing ASH, natch. Also, arcwise, I get why he *thinks* he should leave, and maybe it's valid. But I also think this is an example where real life in the case of ASH's wishes might have driven the story to a place it needn't/shouldn't have gone. Because..... I think this season is where the *Big Metaphor* of High School = Hell kinda falls apart. Real life, adult life as isn't as well served by the Slayer metaphor. For example, if Buffy is doing this big, awesome job of protecting the world, she doesn't get help? (damn that Watchers' Council ) She doesn't get a stipend? Firefighters, police officers, social workers - only a few people who have a *calling* to help others, some of whom are even expected to make that ultimate sacrifice if required, but who get paid for their services. When the debate took place about how Buffy should be fiscally solvent, I'm thinking that's a *forced* dilemma created by the writers to Make Their Point About Being An Adult. As it relates to Giles, I think ultimately he would make a different decision about the best way to help Buffy move forward and grow if it weren't for ASH's real-life wishes. Because, to quote Nikki, "It's all about the mission, baby." In my heart of hearts it felt wrong for Giles to remove himself as a support for Buffy. If he truly believes he is "standing in her way" he needs to figure out how to support her without doing that. I just love how the writing and the characters are so complex we can have these discussions. The finances thing: I read it gendered. Sure, if you do a job you get paid. But women still get that whole unpaid mother-and-housekeeper-and-everything job and are expected to do it for love, not finance. Care work is drastically underpaid if it's paid at all. Slayer work was being compared to that. Getting paid to do work would involve people knowing she does the work. This involves giving away the Slayer's secret identity (which isn't very secret by now, but still), and making people believe the Slayer is needed. The Watcher's Council knows all that. Their excuse for not paying her? I can only think it's patriarchal bullshit. They pay Giles. Why Giles doesn't pay Buffy in turn I don't know. He does give her money, but it's framed as a gift. Possibly he doesn't think of it, because, calling. That's on the characters level. On the writers level? Making a point about gendered work, methinks.
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