|
Post by Queen E on Aug 18, 2005 22:10:28 GMT -5
Hee! Me too; I thought it was really cute. I thought it was awful to the point of embarrassing. She looked foolish. You couldn't take someone wearing that silly style seriously and the scene was meant to be a tearjerker. It was utterly and completely wrong for the terrible trauma of the breakup. Hee! Well, we're all entitled to our opinion. And it may be unserious hair, but in an episode that mixed hilarity with heartbreak, one could make the argument that the "inappropriateness" of Tara's hair just underscores that point. It also proves that we can find serious discussion of all aspects of the Buffyverse...even hair!
|
|
|
Post by Squeemonster on Aug 18, 2005 22:12:03 GMT -5
Tabula Rasa, yay! There is soooo much in this episode. 3 thoughts I wanted to share right from the off: *There is some nifty foreshadowing for Grave: Note who collapses next to who in the magic shop (I got part of this idea from the now defunct tvtome.com): Buffy/Dawn, Anya/Giles, Willow/Xander, Spike, Tara. at the end of Grave, Buffy and Dawn are in the cemetary, Anya and Giles are in the magic shop, Willow and Xander are on the bluff, Spike is in "Africa," and Tara is dead. The gang starts off their AmnesiaAdventures together but quickly get split apart by something rather mundane, run of the mill vampires, that has disastrous consequences because they are unprepared. (that's also sort of a microcosm of the season, too). Spike's rambling about being a Vampire-With-A-Soul. Willow creates the problem while Xander saves the day in a simple human way. Neat, huh? *AmnesiaSpike: Lots of reviews written at the time pointed out that this episode showed that Spike at his core really wasn't that bad and that he was special, etc. The problem with that was that we only had one example to go by (n=1 in science-speak). would other vampires react to memory loss/loss of identity? Well we get to see this, sort of, in Spin The Bottle with TeenageAngel (n=2, not scientifically valid, but better). So that AmnesiaSpike doesn't immediately know he's a vampire is probably not surprising since Angel didn't either initially. But what the episode shows I think is there is this underlying *desire* to be good ("I must be a good guy..."), something that, until he met Buffy, was buried deep down inside. We can do a little contrast between AmnesiaSpike and TeenageAngel and see some interesting things, even though the magic doo-hicky isn't the same in each episode. Spike involuntarily vamps out when he's fighting (vamp face isn't completely consistent in the show, but I'm under the impression that it correlates to being emotional); Angel involuntarily vamps out when he leans two close to Cordy and lusts after her blood I guess. This fits with what we know about the two: Spike has great passion for fighting, "the rush and the crunch," and so on; Angel has always had trouble controlling his bloodlust and his appetite for things in general. As to why AmnesiaSpike never had any bloodlust, personally I take that as an indicator of how well the chip has conditioned him. Just explicit memories (memory of being chipped) were lost, not implicit ones (trying to hurt people = pain). Just compare his behavior here and in Something Blue, when he was straining at his chains when Buffy shoved her neck in his face. He's come a long way since then. Spike spins this very romantic image of himself when Buffy tells him he's a vampire "I must be a good guy on a mission of redemption blah blah blah..." and is not dissuaded when Buffy is not impressed. Angel, despite being ensouled, succumbs pretty quickly to everyone's expectations that if he's a vampire, he must be evil and want to kill everybody. This fits two, although it's interesting as always that their core personalities contrast with the personas they normally present. Spike at his core appears to be confident in who he wants to be, but for most of the series takes his cues from the strongest woman around. Angel despite being an alpha male, boss, and leader, at his core is always seeking validation. *One of the lyrics for "Good-bye To You" is "The last three years were just pretend." Lovers Walk was episode 3.8, and Tabula Rasa was episode 6.8. **pets Liz's pretty brain** I always wondered about those lyrics. I love3 that song and that whole montage--breaks my heart every time I watch it, and every time I hear that song, I'm right back in that moment. I don't know who I feel more sorry for--it's oh so painful and lovely. And that kiss--boy howdy, that has to be one of the best kisses ever. #thud#
|
|
|
Post by Lola m on Aug 19, 2005 7:44:04 GMT -5
I don't remember Tara's hair, which I guess suggests that I was neither impressed nor apalled. Joan is a good solid "normal" girl name, so that makes sense. But given what we see in this episode, and throughout Season 6, to me the "martyr" connection is deliberate and a definite. Notice how, free of her history of heartbreak and disappointment, Buffy loves her slaying (superpowers!) and Spike (Stay away from Randy!). But with her history, in "real life" she prefers to "feel the burden of Slayerness" (as Faith once said to Spike) and tell herself that she can never find true happiness in love (or true happiness, period) without Angel. She's closed up her heart - she believes she can never again love as well as she did at age 17 or so. Which is pretty sad. And she's believes her possibilities as far as other life choices, are totally limited by her Slayer burden. It's self-inflicted martyrdom, self-fulfilling prophecy. She's hanging on a cross, and she doesn't start to come off until the last ep of this Season, and then through Season 7. By the series finale, we hear specifically that Spike is "in her heart" (wow, that took some doing, breaking into that chamber, all locked, all shuttered and dank) and she has let go of the "I'm the one and only Slayer, I'm the Law" and of burdening herself with defining herself in that manner. That's the essential message underneath all the characters in BtVS - it's all about the power. If you tell yourself you're a victim of fate and circumstance, then you are. When you open your heart and mind to the possibilities, you free yourself. Hey, remember, I said I wouldn't deny the martyr thing. It's really too sad. Buffy wasted so much time and heartache on Angel (who proved totally unworthy of same) she couldn't let herself love Spike, who proved his worth again and again. Of course, Spike's journey is much more compelling to me b/c it was 1) primarily self-directed, and 2)we went thru it with him. I really like your point about us going through Spike's journey with him. Because it goes along with something I think plays out in other ways. I've always thought it was the idea of "first impressions" that plays very heavily into some of the differnces in how different characters relate to Angel and Spike. Angel is introduced when "good", then goes "bad", then becomes "good" again. So the characters who met him as a good guy are more likely to see that as the default. Spike is introduced when "bad" and then gradually becomes more "good". So the other characters on the show are more likely to see "bad" as the default and not notice the gradual behavioral shift. And those characters are involved in their own story and so don't "go on the journey" with him - at least, not as much as we the viewers do. But you also see a change in both arcs as Angel moves on to his own show. Because then we get a separate set of characters who are going along on his, and their own, journeys. And all of it is what makes the end of Chosen so right - Buffy giving the amulet to Spike because that group of people have been on their own journey together and need to finish it together. And Angel had to go back to L.A. so that that group of people could continue on theirs.
|
|
|
Post by Spaced Out Looney on Aug 19, 2005 9:05:29 GMT -5
One more thing I wanted to point out about the episode:
I *think* (?) AmnesiaSpike's accent is somewhat different from the way Spike normally talks, somewhere between "Spike" and "William." If I'm not just imagining things, then I'm really impressed that JM can do that.
|
|
|
Post by Spaced Out Looney on Aug 19, 2005 9:06:05 GMT -5
I thought it was awful to the point of embarrassing. She looked foolish. You couldn't take someone wearing that silly style seriously and the scene was meant to be a tearjerker. It was utterly and completely wrong for the terrible trauma of the breakup. Hee! Well, we're all entitled to our opinion. And it may be unserious hair, but in an episode that mixed hilarity with heartbreak, one could make the argument that the "inappropriateness" of Tara's hair just underscores that point. It also proves that we can find serious discussion of all aspects of the Buffyverse...even hair! Because it's all about the hair...
|
|
|
Post by Queen E on Aug 19, 2005 10:23:42 GMT -5
Hee! Well, we're all entitled to our opinion. And it may be unserious hair, but in an episode that mixed hilarity with heartbreak, one could make the argument that the "inappropriateness" of Tara's hair just underscores that point. It also proves that we can find serious discussion of all aspects of the Buffyverse...even hair! Because it's all about the hair... Hee!
|
|
|
Post by SpringSummers on Aug 19, 2005 11:46:34 GMT -5
One more thing I wanted to point out about the episode: I *think* (?) AmnesiaSpike's accent is somewhat different from the way Spike normally talks, somewhere between "Spike" and "William." If I'm not just imagining things, then I'm really impressed that JM can do that. James seems to be doing a different accent for "William" than he does for Spike, so I wouldn't be surprised if he played around with it a bit, as "Randy." Though I can't say I really noticed. Have never listened for it. And I am going to have to go check out Tara's hair! I have some vague memory of . . . braids? Though I must say, if someone wants to like or hate Tara's hair - that's their purgative.
|
|
|
Post by Moscow Watcher on Sept 4, 2005 10:35:08 GMT -5
Can I say that I thouroughly enjoy reading the analysis? I have nothing essential to add, besides little observations
We can't say for sure. Spinning off Angel and Cordy ME brought to BtVS two new characters - Spike and Anya. I believe that initially ME planned to pair Spike with Xander (consider all that active preparation for Xander's gaydar in seasons 2-3), but Seth Green's departure caused writers to make Willow gay, and they couldn't make gay *both* Buffy's sidekicks. Hence, writers continued to pair Xander with Anya because the couple worked great as comic relief. But Xander/Anya relationship in season 3-5 was uncharacteristically uneventful for Jossverse - which makes me think that Xanya had been conceived as a transitional one followed by quick break-up and slow build-up of two couples - Spander and Ganya.
And Ganya interaction we see in Goodbye Iowa, TR, Grave and even Showtime is the aftereffects of that possible season 4 "plot fork".
(I should stop thinking too much) ;D
Maybe it's my foreigner's ear, but it seems to me that all the characters speak a bit more distinctly than usual in TR - like they were told before shooting "guys, the dialogues are very important in this episode, the audience must understand every word you say".
|
|
|
Post by Queen E on Jun 7, 2009 21:13:39 GMT -5
What really strikes me now that I'm rewatching this episode (again!) is how different Tara is with her memory gone; she's much more strong and take charge then we usually see her. I mean, when we're first introduced to her, she's tentative and nervous, due to her upbringing and her fears that there is evil inside of her. Then, in Season 5, she's attacked by Glory. Plus, throughout most of the relationship up to this episode, Willow has been much more the "take charge" one in the relationship. In "Tabula Rasa," it's clear that there's been a quiet strength in her all along; I love the way she develops here into calling Willow out on her behavior, and in following through on her instincts to leave the relationship.
Even with her memory gone, she does take charge in her own quiet way.
|
|
|
Post by S'ewing S'cubie on Jun 10, 2009 15:53:07 GMT -5
What really strikes me now that I'm rewatching this episode (again!) is how different Tara is with her memory gone; she's much more strong and take charge then we usually see her. I mean, when we're first introduced to her, she's tentative and nervous, due to her upbringing and her fears that there is evil inside of her. Then, in Season 5, she's attacked by Glory. Plus, throughout most of the relationship up to this episode, Willow has been much more the "take charge" one in the relationship. In "Tabula Rasa," it's clear that there's been a quiet strength in her all along; I love the way she develops here into calling Willow out on her behavior, and in following through on her instincts to leave the relationship. Even with her memory gone, she does take charge in her own quiet way. I think that we are seeing what the true Tara would have been like if she hadn't had a family bent on sucking the confidence out of her. Despite all the problems that Willow brought to her, I think much of Tara's growth is due to Willow's support and encouragement. At least until the Lethe's bramble events show how far out of control Willow has become.
|
|
|
Post by Lola m on Jun 10, 2009 21:48:42 GMT -5
Hee! The rising . . . music. Time, time, time. It does indeed, turn kittens into cats. And allows sulky teenagers to grow into being able to help save the world. And heals wounded spirits who have been pulled back into the world. And sends anguished vamps in search of a different destiny. Time!! Oh, Willow, if only you could hold on to your moments of brutal honesty about yourself - "we didn't want to know" and "we were so selfish - I was so selfish". I too am with Miss Psycho Pep Squad. Also? Xander is not that far off with his suggestions, if only because of the idea that they should hang out and do ordinary things - help Buffy see the goodness in all the little things of life. Huh. I've never thought of it this way before, but Giles is . . . sort of turning Buffy loose to live a more "normal" life, if she wants. I mean, he can't take away her Slayerness, but he can pull away the remnant of Watcherlyness he brings to things . . . Heee! Thumb war! Holy moley! Asylum and "I'll say" and "no need to get cute" (too late for that, Spikey ). And that suit and hat. Merciful Zeus how I love the sartorial humor of Spike's suit and hat! ;D Heee! Willow clutching her breasts and all "I am a girl". Heee! ;D You are indeed British . . . and a man . . . a ruggedly handsome man, Giles. **leers at Giles** Spike's daddy Giles! **goes to happy fantasy of Spike calling Giles "daddy" . . . ** Show him some affection, Giles! Heee! Red, shiny, shaped like a penis. And then, eeeek! Vamps! Buffy: To slay someone? A female someone! Who do those jerks think they are? Anya: Bloodsuckers. They kill by sucking blood. Take it easy, Joan. God, I love the humor in this ep. ;D And, yes! Stay away from Randy! Ready, superhero Randy? Ready, superhero Joan! God, I love Anya and Giles and their steadily less polite conversation as the pit of cotton-top hell shop fills up with little fluffers bunnies. ;D And the lame vamp with a soul banter between Joan and Randy? Never gets old. ;D Also? Dawn has clearly been studying the language of expressive eyebrows from the master. In other words, Spike. Oh, the look on Buffy's face when she remembers. And then the look on Tara's face (and Dawn's and Xander's) when they realize. Each different, each with their own personal meaning. Man. The final musical montage. Still. Kills. Me. Every. Time. Now Liz and Monnie have me listening to the lyrics and re-loving all the excellent connections made with editing. (I mean, really, this is like an excellently made fan vid, isn't it?) ;D Connections like: The first "good bye to you" hitting just as we cut to Tara turning around with her clothes in hand, looking around at the home she is leaving, then turning to look into the other room and we cut to Willow just in time for the words "you were the one I loved". Then, just in time for the shots of Giles on the plane, two different lines in which "eyes" are mentioned and she talks about being "blinded" - making me think of him singing "behind blue eyes" and the blindness spell. The words "it hurts to want everything and nothing at the same time" just as Buffy has turned from Spike and he leaves, rejected. The words "goodbye to everything that I knew" matched to the moment between Tara and Dawn. But really, it is the whole scene that is fab. The way they cut from person to person, showing the different chains of relationships, Tara to Willow to Giles to Willow, etc. etc. And then? The Buffy and Spike totally macking on each other moment. Mmmmmmmmm!! Love. That. ;D
|
|
|
Post by Lola m on Jun 10, 2009 21:51:51 GMT -5
What really strikes me now that I'm rewatching this episode (again!) is how different Tara is with her memory gone; she's much more strong and take charge then we usually see her. I mean, when we're first introduced to her, she's tentative and nervous, due to her upbringing and her fears that there is evil inside of her. Then, in Season 5, she's attacked by Glory. Plus, throughout most of the relationship up to this episode, Willow has been much more the "take charge" one in the relationship. In "Tabula Rasa," it's clear that there's been a quiet strength in her all along; I love the way she develops here into calling Willow out on her behavior, and in following through on her instincts to leave the relationship. Even with her memory gone, she does take charge in her own quiet way. **nods nods nods** I sometimes hear fans talk about her being all doormat-like, but she's really not.
|
|
|
Post by Lola m on Jun 10, 2009 21:57:12 GMT -5
What really strikes me now that I'm rewatching this episode (again!) is how different Tara is with her memory gone; she's much more strong and take charge then we usually see her. I mean, when we're first introduced to her, she's tentative and nervous, due to her upbringing and her fears that there is evil inside of her. Then, in Season 5, she's attacked by Glory. Plus, throughout most of the relationship up to this episode, Willow has been much more the "take charge" one in the relationship. In "Tabula Rasa," it's clear that there's been a quiet strength in her all along; I love the way she develops here into calling Willow out on her behavior, and in following through on her instincts to leave the relationship. Even with her memory gone, she does take charge in her own quiet way. I think that we are seeing what the true Tara would have been like if she hadn't had a family bent on sucking the confidence out of her. Despite all the problems that Willow brought to her, I think much of Tara's growth is due to Willow's support and encouragement. At least until the Lethe's bramble events show how far out of control Willow has become. Exellent points about her family and how Willow (and the whole gang, really) have been part of encouraging her to show her strength. For one thing, none of them were telling her she's an evil demon. But also, Willow and all of them accepted her, loved her, and expected that she was perfectly able to help in their evil-fighting work.
|
|
|
Post by luvmyfirefly on Jun 15, 2009 23:26:44 GMT -5
Two things that don't work (IMO): Sharky; Tara's distractingly bad hairdo (who put that effing squid on her head, anyway?). Otherwise, a wonderful ep., and much better at mixing comedy and pathos than TGiQ. One thing - Spring, you mentioned the connection btwn Buffy's martyr complex and her choice of the name Joan. While I wont deny it, I think there's more to it than that. There are a lot of times when Giles and/or the Scoobies didn't take Buffy seriously about some supernatural problem or other ( The Pack, Living Conditions). I submit that Buffy chose the name Joan b/c it's a simply a good, solid name. 'Joan' gets taken seriously, whereas 'Buffy' does not. I love the little dig at Angel ("...how lame is that?"), and Spike assuming he's one of the good guys. It's great to see them interact sans baggage (enjoy it while it lasts). Poor Buffy. Remembering is like going thru the trauma all over again. I don't remember Tara's hair, which I guess suggests that I was neither impressed nor apalled. Joan is a good solid "normal" girl name, so that makes sense. But given what we see in this episode, and throughout Season 6, to me the "martyr" connection is deliberate and a definite. Notice how, free of her history of heartbreak and disappointment, Buffy loves her slaying (superpowers!) and Spike (Stay away from Randy!). But with her history, in "real life" she prefers to "feel the burden of Slayerness" (as Faith once said to Spike) and tell herself that she can never find true happiness in love (or true happiness, period) without Angel. She's closed up her heart - she believes she can never again love as well as she did at age 17 or so. Which is pretty sad. And she's believes her possibilities as far as other life choices, are totally limited by her Slayer burden. It's self-inflicted martyrdom, self-fulfilling prophecy. She's hanging on a cross, and she doesn't start to come off until the last ep of this Season, and then through Season 7. By the series finale, we hear specifically that Spike is "in her heart" (wow, that took some doing, breaking into that chamber, all locked, all shuttered and dank) and she has let go of the "I'm the one and only Slayer, I'm the Law" and of burdening herself with defining herself in that manner. That's the essential message underneath all the characters in BtVS - it's all about the power. If you tell yourself you're a victim of fate and circumstance, then you are. When you open your heart and mind to the possibilities, you free yourself. Spring, I just want to give this post (and most of your others in these threads, come to think of it) a standing ovation.
|
|
|
Post by luvmyfirefly on Jun 16, 2009 0:49:33 GMT -5
I know they had real world reasons for doing it, but Giles leaving is still so stupid and wrong headed. The girl's in a bone deep depression man, now is not the time to throw her in the deep end of the pool without her water wings. She WANTS to drown!
I love that Spike screams like a wee girl when he falls off that counter.
Why are Spike's lips that disgusting late 60's pale pink color that looks like Laurie Partridge would have worn it?
Take it easy, Joan.
Said in her Kitten with a Spike voice, "Stay away from Randy!"
I love the way Spike speaks when he's in game face, he's usually so chipper then. Season 6 and 7 could have used more passionately game faced Spike.
Joan and Randy look so cosy and sweet there when she's astride him, as it were.
And Spike's theories about him as a noble vamp and his relationship with Buffy IS accurate. (except for the soul having, and that's just premature). Sugarcoated and idealistic, but still accurate.
The more I see this show the more I wonder if Buffy being appalled at her sexual relationship with Spike isn't just about her (mistaken imo) ideas about Spike but also about her feelings about sex in general. As in sex is sinful. She's definitely not as free-spirited as Faith in this regard and sometimes comes across as downright prudish (particularly if Spike is goading her). When you add this to some pretty strong conditioning that sex causes badness, maybe it's no big surprise that she's so resistant. I still think she's crazy, but I do feel sympathy for her. Enough that I would just push her gently aside on my way through her to the wonderfulness that is Spike.
He approaches her time after time with so much honesty and vulnerability there for the world to see on his face and in his eyes. And over and over she smacks him down. He is brave in ways that Buffy really isn't.
Each kiss gets exponentially hotter. No wonder the walls come tumbling down in Smashed.
|
|