The Initiative Discussion

[William the Bloody]

Let the discussion begin!

[thelittlestvampire]

Heya-
Possibly no-one wll ever read this post- but I just read this review today and wanted to discuss- so here goes.

Firstly- SpringSummer-you rock! Great Review.

Secondly- I never noticed the importance of how Spike offered to turn Willow during the "impotence" scene! I guess I thought he was just threatening her, rather than possibly offering her the opportunity to become his new girlfriend. Your take makes sense, as Spike- at this point at least- gets his sense of place and self largely from the love interest in his life.

I thought this angle was really interesting. Of course, it is one of many foreshadowings of Willow's turning E-vil, but it is also a foreshadowing of how much power she has. Spike is generally attracted to women with lots of power- probably part of his mommy issues. Maybe he, like Tara, realizes that Willow is an up and comming player.

And of course the question on everyone's mind is... What does this all mean to Harmony?

Your review made me wonder about how and why Spike ever got with Harmony. She has no (obvious) power at all. It was how you pointed out his use of the phrase "Big daddy's home!" He didn't sire her. But there is a weird father/daughter side to their relationship. In The Real Me there is a line Spike says to Harmony- "Look at you, all puffed up and mighty, thinking you're going to do Big Bad, it's...well let's face it, it's adorable." It's patronizing yet sweet. I know Spike originally abused Harmony like a Dolly- but I'm somehow also feeling like he maybe protected her from the cruel world of being a vamp for a while. She even comes running to him for protection when she is "on the lamb" later in season 5.

Geez- that would make Spike's relationship with Harmony a bit of a shadow of Angel's relationship with Dru. Talk about full circle. (Funny- I always thought Harmony was Spike's first "Buffy Dolly.") Maybe I'm really barking up the wrong tree.

Anyway- I hope someday there is a flashback to Spike and Harmony's first hookup. Maybe a drunken he said / she said.

Babbling- I think I may have had too much wine with dinner.

TLV

[thelittlestvampire]

Oooh, oooh, oooh-
If anyone else watched the season 4 JM interview on the DVD set- did you notice that in describing the "impotence" scene, he says "impudence" instead? Teehee

Poor JM- forever memorialized mispronouncing "impotence." I'm glad I'm not a TV actor.

Much too much wine.
TLV

[SpringSummers]

thelittlestvampire said:

Heya-
Possibly no-one wll ever read this post- but I just read this review today and wanted to discuss- so here goes.

Firstly- SpringSummer-you rock! Great Review.

Thank you! And thanks for taking the time to give me some comments and feedback.

Secondly- I never noticed the importance of how Spike offered to turn Willow during the "impotence" scene! I guess I thought he was just threatening her, rather than possibly offering her the opportunity to become his new girlfriend. Your take makes sense, as Spike- at this point at least- gets his sense of place and self largely from the love interest in his life.

I thought this angle was really interesting. Of course, it is one of many foreshadowings of Willow's turning E-vil, but it is also a foreshadowing of how much power she has. Spike is generally attracted to women with lots of power- probably part of his mommy issues. Maybe he, like Tara, realizes that Willow is an up and comming player.

And of course the question on everyone's mind is... What does this all mean to Harmony?

Your review made me wonder about how and why Spike ever got with Harmony.

Ha! Great minds think alike. I just yesterday sent Vlad a short-story fan fic in which I attempt to address the question: "How did Spike & Harmony meet?"

She has no (obvious) power at all. It was how you pointed out his use of the phrase "Big daddy's home!" He didn't sire her. But there is a weird father/daughter side to their relationship. In The Real Me there is a line Spike says to Harmony- "Look at you, all puffed up and mighty, thinking you're going to do Big Bad, it's...well let's face it, it's adorable." It's patronizing yet sweet. I know Spike originally abused Harmony like a Dolly- but I'm somehow also feeling like he maybe protected her from the cruel world of being a vamp for a while. She even comes running to him for protection when she is "on the lamb" later in season 5.

Geez- that would make Spike's relationship with Harmony a bit of a shadow of Angel's relationship with Dru. Talk about full circle. (Funny- I always thought Harmony was Spike's first "Buffy Dolly.") Maybe I'm really barking up the wrong tree.

I think everyone - Dru, Harmony, Buffy -was Spike's "mommy dolly" in some ways. William had to take care of his mother, and I think he liked feeling needed that way.

Also, another point, for me is that Spike/Harmony are a bit of a shadow (as you put it) for Buffy/Spike, with Buffy in the "Spike" role.

I don't know if you read my Harsh Light of Day analysis, but I think that's the review where I spend the most time talking about Spike & Harmony.

Anyway- I hope someday there is a flashback to Spike and Harmony's first hookup. Maybe a drunken he said / she said.

Well, Vlad should have my fanfic up soon. Maybe it will holdover you until/if we ever see the "real thing." I tried to make the story realistic, and to fit with what we have seen.

Babbling- I think I may have had too much wine with dinner.

TLV

I like wine, too.

[SpringSummers]

thelittlestvampire said:

Oooh, oooh, oooh-
If anyone else watched the season 4 JM interview on the DVD set- did you notice that in describing the "impotence" scene, he says "impudence" instead? Teehee

Poor JM- forever memorialized mispronouncing "impotence." I'm glad I'm not a TV actor.

Much too much wine.
TLV

Yes, I noticed how James slipped on the word and said "impudence" also. It made me laugh and it made me think, "Geez, he can't even make himself say the word." This is just one of the many things I've noticed about James that confirms for me that he is male. I am very observant in that way.

PS> You should drink wine more often.

[thelittlestvampire]

SpringSummers said:

Yes, I noticed how James slipped on the word and said "impudence" also. It made me laugh and it made me think, "Geez, he can't even make himself say the word." This is just one of the many things I've noticed about James that confirms for me that he is male. I am very observant in that way.

PS> You should drink wine more often.

Did you also notice the interview (I can't remember which- it's on a DVD set) where he is talking about male vampires not biting guys? He looks sooooo uncomfortable I really feel sorry for him. It must be harder to be filmed being yourself than being a character.

Maybe I could comfort him!
TLV

[SpringSummers]

thelittlestvampire said:

Did you also notice the interview (I can't remember which- it's on a DVD set) where he is talking about male vampires not biting guys? He looks sooooo uncomfortable I really feel sorry for him. It must be harder to be filmed being yourself than being a character.

Maybe I could comfort him!
TLV

There was something about that whole interview that made me sure he was talking to a woman.