Something Blue Discussion

[SpringSummers]

tichtich said:

I never paid attention to "Wind Beneath My Wings" before, but Spring's posting of the lyrics drew my attention to a similarity with another song...

Wind Beneath My Wings
------------------------------
"It must have been cold there in my shadow,
to never have sunlight on your face."

I'm Under Your Spell
-------------------------
"I lived my life in shadow,
never the sun on my face."

Coincidence? I think not.

Tichtich - welcome! And thanks for adding commentary to the thread.

I agree this similarity is not coincidence either. At the very least, the imagery is meant to refer to the same thing . . . the roles our various lovers and would-be lovers play in helping (or not) each other out into the (figurative) sunlight of self-awareness and adulthood.

Please feel free to comment in any of these Spikecentricity threads, or anywhere else on our board - join us in the daily chatter on the main thread, or comment on Veronica Mars or Lost, or on the Angelfile reviews or fanfic - whatever suits your fancy.

[rosslyn]

What I particularly loved about the "Wind Beneath My Wings" bit was Spike's willingness to be playful, even after being tied up and subjected to the Scoobies' scorn once again. It was just another example of how very much humanity he had while unsouled.

[tatiana]

Hi you all!

I'm new and Spanish -not bilingual-, so sorry for possible misunderstandings

Firstly, Spring Summers, my most sincere congratulations for your analysis. It's incredible. I have watch a lot of times "Something Blue" and analyzed it by myself or with my friends, but until now I hadn't realized of all the meaning: the true concept of the spell, all the foreshadowed messages, comparisons and contrasts between character's behaviours...

This is the very first analysis of yours I've read but now, I'm going to have to read them all. ;D

One thing I'd like to comment, and I'd like to know your opinion about it, is about Spike's reaction at the end of the spell.

It seems to me as if, when Spike fell on the floor, and Buffy went worried to kiss him, he knew perfectly what he was doing and to whom (I remember that he looked at Buffy with suspicion and said "Slayer?" -when it would have been more natural to say "Buffy?").

When Willow broke the spell, Buffy stopped kissing Spike and started to shout displeased, and It was not until that precise moment that he started to show his own disgust (I think he was faking).


Other thing I've not understood very well about your explanation is the inner meaning, as related with Buffy and Spike, of the song "Wind Beneath my Wings". Or was it related to Buffy an Angel?

Does it mean that he (Spike/Angel) had to protect Buffy?

Thank you all of you
Tat

[Onjel]

tatiana said:

Hi you all!

I'm new and Spanish -not bilingual-, so sorry for possible misunderstandings

Firstly, Spring Summers, my most sincere congratulations for your analysis. It's incredible. I have watch a lot of times "Something Blue" and analyzed it by myself or with my friends, but until now I hadn't realized of all the meaning: the true concept of the spell, all the foreshadowed messages, comparisons and contrasts between character's behaviours...

This is the very first analysis of yours I've read but now, I'm going to have to read them all. ;D

One thing I'd like to comment, and I'd like to know your opinion about it, is about Spike's reaction at the end of the spell.

It seems to me as if, when Spike fell on the floor, and Buffy went worried to kiss him, he knew perfectly what he was doing and to whom (I remember that he looked at Buffy with suspicion and said "Slayer?" -when it would have been more natural to say "Buffy?").

When Willow broke the spell, Buffy stopped kissing Spike and started to shout displeased, and It was not until that precise moment that he started to show his own disgust (I think he was faking).


Other thing I've not understood very well about your explanation is the inner meaning, as related with Buffy and Spike, of the song "Wind Beneath my Wings". Or was it related to Buffy an Angel?

Does it mean that he (Spike/Angel) had to protect Buffy?

Thank you all of you
Tat

#wavey# Hi Tatiana! Welcome to the S3! I am Onjel. So pleased to meet you. ;D Have you met Mapomi? She is from Spain as well. I hope to see you on the main thread.

[SpringSummers]

tatiana said:

Hi you all!

I'm new and Spanish -not bilingual-, so sorry for possible misunderstandings

Your English is not perfect but close, and very easy to understand. But yes, it is easy for misunderstandings to happen. Let me know if you think I've misunderstood anything, or you are not understanding my phrasing, etc.

Firstly, Spring Summers, my most sincere congratulations for your analysis. It's incredible. I have watch a lot of times "Something Blue" and analyzed it by myself or with my friends, but until now I hadn't realized of all the meaning: the true concept of the spell, all the foreshadowed messages, comparisons and contrasts between character's behaviours...

This is the very first analysis of yours I've read but now, I'm going to have to read them all. ;D

Please do read them all, and feel free to comment on any of the threads.

One thing I'd like to comment, and I'd like to know your opinion about it, is about Spike's reaction at the end of the spell.

It seems to me as if, when Spike fell on the floor, and Buffy went worried to kiss him, he knew perfectly what he was doing and to whom (I remember that he looked at Buffy with suspicion and said "Slayer?" -when it would have been more natural to say "Buffy?").

When Willow broke the spell, Buffy stopped kissing Spike and started to shout displeased, and It was not until that precise moment that he started to show his own disgust (I think he was faking).

There are many different opinions about this, but my personal opinion is that Spike is NOT faking when he expresses disgust after the spell is broken. Not exactly.

The reason I believe this is that at that time, both Spike and Buffy are very attracted to each other (which we can see throughout the episode) but neither one of them has admitted the attraction to themselves.

So when they both show disgust, I think they both, consciously, THINK that they mean it, but that they both, underneath it all, are in denial about their attraction to each other. So I think there is a sense in which they are both being genuine in their disgust, and a sense in which they are both being less than true to themselves.

But I think they are both in the same place, here, in terms of the way they view their relationship and each other. And I think that is what we see in their twin reactions to the kissing, after Willow breaks the spell.

I believe this because it fits with what we see both before and after Something Blue - Spike doesn't, truly, consciously realize his attraction to Buffy until Out of My Mind when he wakes up from his dream of kissing Buffy and says: "God, no. Please, no." His surprise (and his horror at the idea) seem very real to me.

But definitely there are those who agree with your idea that Spike is faking, and only expresses disgust because Buffy does. I do not think this is impossible, but it just doesn't seem to me that Spike's realization of his attraction to Buffy is that close to his consciousness yet, at that point.

Other thing I've not understood very well about your explanation is the inner meaning, as related with Buffy and Spike, of the song "Wind Beneath my Wings". Or was it related to Buffy an Angel?

Does it mean that he (Spike/Angel) had to protect Buffy?

Thank you all of you
Tat

I think the "Wind Beneath My Wings" choice is all about Buffy & Spike. The word "beneath" is a word that is associated with Buffy & Spike - she tells him "You're beneath me!" in Fool For Love, in Season 7, the episode where Buffy finds out about Spike's soul is called Beneath You.

And in Something Blue, though neither Buffy nor Spike has any idea of what's ahead, there is much foreshadowing. And I think the song - that Buffy wants for her wedding to Spike - does foreshadow the role Spike will play for her - he's "beneath her" providing support, and he does become the "wind beneath her wings" that allows her to truly heal her heart and move forward.

And - welcome again!

[tatiana]

tatiana said:

Please do read them all, and feel free to comment on any of the threads.

I've just read a couple of them (about two of my season 5's favorites episodes: "Fool for Love" and "Into the Wood") and in a while I'm going to the corresponding threads to write my impressions. As I hoped, yours is an amazing analysis. I envy your capacity to relate every dialog and circumstances ;D sane envy, of course)-

There are many different opinions about this, but my personal opinion is that Spike is NOT faking when he expresses disgust after the spell is broken. Not exactly.

The reason I believe this is that at that time, both Spike and Buffy are very attracted to each other (which we can see throughout the episode) but neither one of them has admitted the attraction to themselves.

So when they both show disgust, I think they both, consciously, THINK that they mean it, but that they both, underneath it all, are in denial about their attraction to each other. So I think there is a sense in which they are both being genuine in their disgust, and a sense in which they are both being less than true to themselves.

But I think they are both in the same place, here, in terms of the way they view their relationship and each other. And I think that is what we see in their twin reactions to the kissing, after Willow breaks the spell.

I completely agree with you, Spring Summer, but isn't it true that sounds a little strange the way Spike says "Slayer?" when Buffy went to kiss him?
This is the only detail than doesn't fit to me in the spell theory, but as you say in the next paragraph, Spike isn't going to be aware about his love for Buffy until "Out of my mind".

Don't you see anything odd in that question and Spike look?

I believe this because it fits with what we see both before and after Something Blue - Spike doesn't, truly, consciously realize his attraction to Buffy until Out of My Mind when he wakes up from his dream of kissing Buffy and says: "God, no. Please, no." His surprise (and his horror at the idea) seem very real to me.

I love that scene (an the way he take off his shirt ;D.) And yes, it is obvious that Spike is the most surprised one at seeing that scene (none of us were, weren't we?)

But definitely there are those who agree with your idea that Spike is faking, and only expresses disgust because Buffy does. I do not think this is impossible, but it just doesn't seem to me that Spike's realization of his attraction to Buffy is that close to his consciousness yet, at that point.

Yes, you make me doubt . At first I was nearly convinced that Spike was faking, but as that is not consistent with the rest of the plot of the serie... I agree with you (... If only there were an explanation for the "Slayer?" sentence... )

Other thing I've not understood very well about your explanation is the inner meaning, as related with Buffy and Spike, of the song "Wind Beneath my Wings". Or was it related to Buffy an Angel?

Does it mean that he (Spike/Angel) had to protect Buffy?

Thank you all of you
Tat

I think the "Wind Beneath My Wings" choice is all about Buffy & Spike. The word "beneath" is a word that is associated with Buffy & Spike - she tells him "You're beneath me!" in Fool For Love, in Season 7, the episode where Buffy finds out about Spike's soul is called Beneath You.

It's beautiful that relation between "you're beneath me" and "beneath you". I didn't consciously realize until you've told me. I love that all things fit as in a puzzle (and Joss Whedon is a genius for this)

But these are things I want to comment in the "Fool for Love" topic ;D
(I love this site. And I adore your explanations )

And in Something Blue, though neither Buffy nor Spike has any idea of what's ahead, there is much foreshadowing. And I think the song - that Buffy wants for her wedding to Spike - does foreshadow the role Spike will play for her - he's "beneath her" providing support, and he does become the "wind beneath her wings" that allows her to truly heal her heart and move forward.

that's my great doubt (but perhaps this is not the best thread to comment it) Did Spike's sacrifice really heal Buffy's heart? (Perhaps it did, as she didn't have any problem to move on (The girl in question)....

thank you again
Tat

[SpringSummers]

tatiana said:

I've just read a couple of them (about two of my season 5's favorites episodes: "Fool for Love" and "Into the Wood") and in a while I'm going to the corresponding threads to write my impressions. As I hoped, yours is an amazing analysis. I envy your capacity to relate every dialog and circumstances ;D sane envy, of course)-

Whew. I am glad to hear it is sane envy.

I completely agree with you, Spring Summer, but isn't it true that sounds a little strange the way Spike says "Slayer?" when Buffy went to kiss him?
This is the only detail than doesn't fit to me in the spell theory, but as you say in the next paragraph, Spike isn't going to be aware about his love for Buffy until "Out of my mind".

Don't you see anything odd in that question and Spike look?

I thought Spike's "Slayer?" was just him being confused and trying to make sense out of it all, when he comes out of the spell and realizes he's been kissing Buffy.

It didn't really strike me as odd, but you aren't the only one who I have seen mention it as odd. To me, it just seemed like a reaction to suddenly coming out of the spell.

I love that scene (an the way he take off his shirt ;D.) And yes, it is obvious that Spike is the most surprised one at seeing that scene (none of us were, weren't we?)

I love that scene too. I could watch it over and over - when he takes off his shirt . And the kissing. It's a great scene.

Yes, you make me doubt . At first I was nearly convinced that Spike was faking, but as that is not consistent with the rest of the plot of the serie... I agree with you (... If only there were an explanation for the "Slayer?" sentence... )



It's beautiful that relation between "you're beneath me" and "beneath you". I didn't consciously realize until you've told me. I love that all things fit as in a puzzle (and Joss Whedon is a genius for this)

But these are things I want to comment in the "Fool for Love" topic ;D
(I love this site. And I adore your explanations )

And in Something Blue, though neither Buffy nor Spike has any idea of what's ahead, there is much foreshadowing. And I think the song - that Buffy wants for her wedding to Spike - does foreshadow the role Spike will play for her - he's "beneath her" providing support, and he does become the "wind beneath her wings" that allows her to truly heal her heart and move forward.

that's my great doubt (but perhaps this is not the best thread to comment it) Did Spike's sacrifice really heal Buffy's heart? (Perhaps it did, as she didn't have any problem to move on (The girl in question)....

thank you again
Tat

Yes - I see what you mean.

I agree that Buffy's heart really hasn't completely healed yet - but I do think that Spike's sacrifice allowed Buffy to begin to let her heart heal.

Up until Season 7, she really clung to her pain, and closed off her heart. But Spike found his way in, and I think this was the beginning of Buffy allowing herself to heal.

[tatiana]

Hi again Spring Summers!!

I think that there is a little misunderstanding in the time sequence of the facts. As you say in the next paragraph:

I thought Spike's "Slayer?" was just him being confused and trying to make sense out of it all, when he comes out of the spell and realizes he's been kissing Buffy.

It seems as if you thought that firstly the spell was broken, and then, Spike said "Slayer".

But I've watched the episode again and looked for the dialog, and it happened in this way:

"
(Cut to Buffy struggling with a demon as yet another bursts onto the scene. It knocks Spike on his back. Buffy gets pissed and kicks both the demon's asses and runs over to Spike.)

BUFFY: Oh, Spike.. are you okay?

SPIKE: Slayer..

(They kiss)

WILLOW: Let the healing power begin. Let my will be safe again. As these words of peace are spoken, let this harmful spell be broken.

(Thunder crashes and lightning flashes. Suddenly, the demons disappear. Buffy and Spike pull away from each other)

BUFFY: Oh, ugh..

SPIKE: Oh, bloody hell!

(They both jump up, each wiping their mouths and gagging and carrying on)

BUFFY: Spike lips! Lips of Spike!

(All four of them suddenly see Willow. )

WILLOW: (sheepishly) Hi, guys.


"

It didn't really strike me as odd, but you aren't the only one who I have seen mention it as odd. To me, it just seemed like a reaction to suddenly coming out of the spell.

But as you have said many times in this conversation -and I agree with you-, it doesn't fit in the storyline that Spike "discovered his weird feelings for Buffy at this very moment" so, probably I was fooling myself.

Thank you very much for your patience and for answering my questions.

Tat

[SpringSummers]

tatiana said:

Hi again Spring Summers!!

I think that there is a little misunderstanding in the time sequence of the facts. As you say in the next paragraph:

I thought Spike's "Slayer?" was just him being confused and trying to make sense out of it all, when he comes out of the spell and realizes he's been kissing Buffy.

It seems as if you thought that firstly the spell was broken, and then, Spike said "Slayer".

But I've watched the episode again and looked for the dialog, and it happened in this way:

"
(Cut to Buffy struggling with a demon as yet another bursts onto the scene. It knocks Spike on his back. Buffy gets pissed and kicks both the demon's asses and runs over to Spike.)

BUFFY: Oh, Spike.. are you okay?

SPIKE: Slayer..

(They kiss)

WILLOW: Let the healing power begin. Let my will be safe again. As these words of peace are spoken, let this harmful spell be broken.

(Thunder crashes and lightning flashes. Suddenly, the demons disappear. Buffy and Spike pull away from each other)

BUFFY: Oh, ugh..

SPIKE: Oh, bloody hell!

(They both jump up, each wiping their mouths and gagging and carrying on)

BUFFY: Spike lips! Lips of Spike!

(All four of them suddenly see Willow. )

WILLOW: (sheepishly) Hi, guys.


"

It didn't really strike me as odd, but you aren't the only one who I have seen mention it as odd. To me, it just seemed like a reaction to suddenly coming out of the spell.

But as you have said many times in this conversation -and I agree with you-, it doesn't fit in the storyline that Spike "discovered his weird feelings for Buffy at this very moment" so, probably I was fooling myself.

Thank you very much for your patience and for answering my questions.

Tat

Oh! Yes, I was mixed up.

I remember it now. He says "Slayer!" right before they kiss. I just took this to be under-the-spell Spike reacting to his passion for Buffy - which he is a very real passion, and has a lot to do with her Slayerhood.

But everyone gets different ideas from the various scenes.