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Post by William the Bloody on Oct 17, 2003 23:35:53 GMT -5
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Post by Karen on Oct 18, 2003 0:11:12 GMT -5
Erin, just a great review! I liked your: They are fractured and divided, not just by the monsters inside, but by the monster they are inside: Wolfram and Hart. I never thought of that. W&H being a monster. A monster that can't be controlled or defeated easily. When Angel said that "the monster wins if you separate from the ones you love", he could have been refering to W&H and the Sr. Partners as well as the monster within. Your - What can ultimately save them is connection and understanding.This holds true for Spike, too. He disappears when the gang either ignores him, or he gets angry. Cool. I'm so loving everyone's reviews. Thanks for the great insights. |
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Oct 18, 2003 12:19:39 GMT -5
They are fractured and divided, not just by the monsters inside, but by the monster they are inside: Wolfram and Hart.
Ok, Sandy said it before me, but that line is so good it deserves being repeated. Just delicious.
erin, this was a great review - I loved your emphasis on the danger inherent in the refusal to integrate all your 'parts'.
I really enjoy your reviews erin, great writing!
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 19, 2003 9:03:31 GMT -5
Great job, eg.
Nicely written and thought out. It really did address the theme I think will be most central to this season, and I think it addressed it best in the very last (and my favorite) sentence:
"Only by maintaining the tenuous connections they built in this episode can they avoid being swallowed whole."
I wonder if we will see any of the FG going evil ala Willow (you know, end up being a Big Bad for the season)? Maybe that would be too "been there, done that"? Dunno.
Again - nice job, eg - hope you will be doing this again!
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Post by Nickim on Oct 19, 2003 9:20:07 GMT -5
Erin, just a great review! I liked your: They are fractured and divided, not just by the monsters inside, but by the monster they are inside: Wolfram and Hart. I never thought of that. W&H being a monster. A monster that can't be controlled or defeated easily. When Angel said that "the monster wins if you separate from the ones you love", he could have been refering to W&H and the Sr. Partners as well as the monster within. Your - What can ultimately save them is connection and understanding.This holds true for Spike, too. He disappears when the gang either ignores him, or he gets angry. Cool. I'm so loving everyone's reviews. Thanks for the great insights. Sandy said it better than I could, so DITTO. |
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tkent
S'cubie
"Angel and I have never been intimate...well except that once..." --New fodder for fanfic!
Posts: 21
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Post by tkent on Oct 19, 2003 13:34:43 GMT -5
Great review and great insights by everyone!
"...and the only way to survive is to rely on those around you to help you through these situations."
That made me think about Spike and exactly what he's NOT doing. He's going to only Fred, not Angel or the entire group for help. For reasons we're only guessing at so far, whether it's because he doesn't want to go to Angel for help or that he feels Fred can be more easily manipulated he chooses to be selective in who he's asking for help. He then gets grumpy about it when all energy isn't focused on his situation.
I liked all the possibilities of the monster inside; inside themselves, the monster that is W&H, the senior partners etc. For all those naysayers on other boards who didn't like this ep. I think they need to come on over here and read the reviews. There's much more to this ep than a monster of the week!
All the characers are guilty of hiding/keeping things to themselves which just continues to hurt them all...Angel maybe most of all. No one had any idea what Spike has done to save the world or that he even has a soul because Angel chose not to share that. Everyone's lack of sympathy is based on what they DO know of him, not actual recent events. I see the little green headed monster called jealously inside Angel! No matter what Spike's form, I think you're seeing and will continue to see someone who just isn't as guilt ridden as Angel but is jealous of the perceived perks he doesn't get for himself for good deeds committed. Little green monsters all around!
I don't think the BIG BAD of the season will be any of them, but it might possibly be their own fractured relationships and insecurities with each other that could defeat them.
One last thought that I just had as I was reading the review and writing this. The way the are all distrustful of each other, reminds me A LOT of office politics...which is now exactly what they're at the center of, a great corporate cubicle of politics.
~just my thoughts on it.
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Post by Karen on Oct 19, 2003 21:09:30 GMT -5
Great review and great insights by everyone! "...and the only way to survive is to rely on those around you to help you through these situations."That made me think about Spike and exactly what he's NOT doing. He's going to only Fred, not Angel or the entire group for help. For reasons we're only guessing at so far, whether it's because he doesn't want to go to Angel for help or that he feels Fred can be more easily manipulated he chooses to be selective in who he's asking for help. He then gets grumpy about it when all energy isn't focused on his situation. I liked all the possibilities of the monster inside; inside themselves, the monster that is W&H, the senior partners etc. For all those naysayers on other boards who didn't like this ep. I think they need to come on over here and read the reviews. There's much more to this ep than a monster of the week!All the characers are guilty of hiding/keeping things to themselves which just continues to hurt them all...Angel maybe most of all. No one had any idea what Spike has done to save the world or that he even has a soul because Angel chose not to share that. Everyone's lack of sympathy is based on what they DO know of him, not actual recent events. I see the little green headed monster called jealously inside Angel! No matter what Spike's form, I think you're seeing and will continue to see someone who just isn't as guilt ridden as Angel but is jealous of the perceived perks he doesn't get for himself for good deeds committed. Little green monsters all around! I don't think the BIG BAD of the season will be any of them, but it might possibly be their own fractured relationships and insecurities with each other that could defeat them. One last thought that I just had as I was reading the review and writing this. The way the are all distrustful of each other, reminds me A LOT of office politics...which is now exactly what they're at the center of, a great corporate cubicle of politics. ~just my thoughts on it. Hello and welcome, tkent! S3 is a great site, isn't it? I'm glad you found us! I hope more nice people like you come and stay a while. I never thought about the office politics angle before. Great thought! Angel is going to have his hands full in guiding his new corporation down the right track. I hope you've checked out all the great things on the S3 site. There's a lot of goodies to be found. Click on "home" and then scroll down to the S3 Website Link to enter. Or just click on this link: www.soulfulspike.comDon't forget to vote for the picture of the week on Wednesdays through Sunday, or enter if you want to! See you around the board. SandyShores |
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Post by ldelrossi on Oct 20, 2003 7:40:33 GMT -5
Absolutely wonderful review eg. I agree with all of the other posters' comments, which is quite unusual for me.
It is ironic that Angel said "If you separate yourself from the ones you love, the monster wins." He is doing just that and has often done it in the past out of guilt and shame. He beats himself up over his monster's past and often forgets any of the good he's done as Angel.
"What can ultimately save them is connection and understanding." Each of them are totally immersed in their new roles; wanting to be successful; wanting to forestall any evil W&H may throw at them, but since they have separated themselves from each other, that is not as possible. They no longer live together so they have broken the family bonds they had before.
Again I really liked your review. You pointed out what apparently many of us felt was important, but you said it far better than I could ever do.
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Post by Queen E on Oct 20, 2003 10:43:33 GMT -5
Absolutely wonderful review eg. I agree with all of the other posters' comments, which is quite unusual for me. It is ironic that Angel said "If you separate yourself from the ones you love, the monster wins." He is doing just that and has often done it in the past out of guilt and shame. He beats himself up over his monster's past and often forgets any of the good he's done as Angel. "What can ultimately save them is connection and understanding." Each of them are totally immersed in their new roles; wanting to be successful; wanting to forestall any evil W&H may throw at them, but since they have separated themselves from each other, that is not as possible. They no longer live together so they have broken the family bonds they had before. Again I really liked your review. You pointed out what apparently many of us felt was important, but you said it far better than I could ever do. WOW! Thank you everyone, new posters and old! I enjoy doing these reviews; I get to peek a little deeper at the episodes and see what I can figure out. What's great too is checking out the responses; all of you always see something I didn't catch which leads to a better understanding of the episode. So, thanks again. |
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Post by LeeHollins on Oct 20, 2003 14:31:33 GMT -5
Erin, just a great review! I liked your: They are fractured and divided, not just by the monsters inside, but by the monster they are inside: Wolfram and Hart. I never thought of that. W&H being a monster. A monster that can't be controlled or defeated easily. When Angel said that "the monster wins if you separate from the ones you love", he could have been refering to W&H and the Sr. Partners as well as the monster within. Your - What can ultimately save them is connection and understanding.This holds true for Spike, too. He disappears when the gang either ignores him, or he gets angry. Cool. I'm so loving everyone's reviews. Thanks for the great insights. Ummm....Karen said it better than I could ever say it so ditto. Erin - GREAT review! Absolutely loved it - you will be doing another one later in the season, right? Right?? Yet another fabulous guest review!  |
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Post by makd on Oct 20, 2003 19:24:48 GMT -5
"Overwhelmed by the responsibility of running and cleaning up this organization is the greatest danger to this “family” since Jasmine was born, and much more pernicious."
Excellent review, eg! I ditto the line about being in the monster (W&H), and ditto the comment about the FG needing to learn about politics within the organization.
I think the big bad of the season may well turn out to be the monster of the corporation - something that many of us have to deal with every day.
once again, great review! I look forward to more!
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tkent
S'cubie
"Angel and I have never been intimate...well except that once..." --New fodder for fanfic!
Posts: 21
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Post by tkent on Oct 20, 2003 20:56:54 GMT -5
Hello and welcome, tkent! S3 is a great site, isn't it? I'm glad you found us! I hope more nice people like you come and stay a while. I never thought about the office politics angle before. Great thought! Angel is going to have his hands full in guiding his new corporation down the right track. SandyShores Thanks for the welcome! I'm slowly making my way through the site! It's nice to have somewhere to discuss the show intelligently instead of "Did u see how gr8 XX looked last week?" I am really enjoying analyzing the eps and gaining insights from everyone elses great opinions and ideas. Reminds me a little bit of Eng. Lit. class only a lot more fun! I agree, I think we're boiling it down to the Big Bad being the big monster called Corporatus! It is something that many of us face every single day in the workplace. I know I've faced my share of office politics and power struggles. The question always is, do you play the game their way or your own way? DO you play the game at all? I think this makes a lot of sense in the Buffy Universe, it all started with a teenage girl and the challenges of growing up. As the show progressed it gradually it turned to more adult matters. With Angel, they've continued that evolution into adulthood, having to juggle family politics along with your sometimes all consuming job. To me, the first season of Angel felt like it started right out a few years in the future. By that I mean that it seemed like Cordy was all of sudden about 25 years old with a whole new set of problems to deal with. I wonder if it's (possibly) a comment from Joss, having had to continually fight the corporate studio monster to not only keep his shows as he'd like but keep them at all. Stretching I know! |
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Post by Karen on Oct 20, 2003 22:45:11 GMT -5
Thanks for the welcome! I'm slowly making my way through the site! It's nice to have somewhere to discuss the show intelligently instead of "Did u see how gr8 XX looked last week?" I am really enjoying analyzing the eps and gaining insights from everyone elses great opinions and ideas. Reminds me a little bit of Eng. Lit. class only a lot more fun! I agree, I think we're boiling it down to the Big Bad being the big monster called Corporatus! It is something that many of us face every single day in the workplace. I know I've faced my share of office politics and power struggles. The question always is, do you play the game their way or your own way? DO you play the game at all? I think this makes a lot of sense in the Buffy Universe, it all started with a teenage girl and the challenges of growing up. As the show progressed it gradually it turned to more adult matters. With Angel, they've continued that evolution into adulthood, having to juggle family politics along with your sometimes all consuming job. To me, the first season of Angel felt like it started right out a few years in the future. By that I mean that it seemed like Cordy was all of sudden about 25 years old with a whole new set of problems to deal with. I wonder if it's (possibly) a comment from Joss, having had to continually fight the corporate studio monster to not only keep his shows as he'd like but keep them at all. Stretching I know! I don't feel you're stretching at all! Joss does like to pattern his shows after his rl stuggles. It's funny that Xander seemed to almost disappear last year on Buffy. Someone (can't remember who) said that if you listened to Xander then you were hearing Joss talk. Maybe Joss was finally growing up (having a kid and all) and was leaving his Xander behind. (I miss Xander.) I like your thoughts and I agree with them. Now, I really got to go to bed. Catch ya later. p.s. Love your avatar - is that you? |
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tkent
S'cubie
"Angel and I have never been intimate...well except that once..." --New fodder for fanfic!
Posts: 21
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Post by tkent on Oct 22, 2003 9:31:14 GMT -5
I don't feel you're stretching at all! Joss does like to pattern his shows after his rl stuggles. It's funny that Xander seemed to almost disappear last year on Buffy. Someone (can't remember who) said that if you listened to Xander then you were hearing Joss talk. Maybe Joss was finally growing up (having a kid and all) and was leaving his Xander behind. (I miss Xander.) I like your thoughts and I agree with them. Now, I really got to go to bed. Catch ya later. p.s. Love your avatar - is that you? (Thanks. Yea, that's me...only I look nothing like that in RL,  I'm very ghostly pale. The joys of the modern version of smoke and mirrors. Digital manipulation, I love Photoshop! I was going for mysterious - my best friend said it looked "freaky." Oh well.) I miss Xander too. (I always thought that Joss sounded like Xander-or vice versa). Could be a good story bringing him to LA, for a little while, let the "childhood angst" mix with the "adulthood angst." Could play on the fractured and divided theme a lot with him too, his loyalties were always so black and white. I think being part of the "Family" was always important to him as well. Looking forward to tonights ep! |
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Post by raenstorm on Oct 22, 2003 13:19:18 GMT -5
Erin, I have been meaning to write an intellectual post in response to your review all week. Well, if I wait for it to get intellectual, we'll all be waiting for a long time  You did a wonderful job reviewing this episode. You mentioned one of the things that I thought this episode revolved around... family and the connection we share with others. I think that is going to be an important key to how the FG deals with the evil that is W&H. I can't wait to see how the rest of the season plays out. Again, great job! |
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I'm very ghostly pale. The joys of the modern version of smoke and mirrors. Digital manipulation, I love Photoshop! I was going for mysterious - my best friend said it looked "freaky." Oh well.)