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Post by William the Bloody on Jun 18, 2003 0:36:28 GMT -5
Let the discussion begin!
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Post by Rob on Jun 18, 2003 21:53:20 GMT -5
Spring, your reviews are the class of our site. I've always considered "The I in Team" to be a rather weak episode with some funny moments....then I read your review and feel foolish for having missed so much.
Especially the way Buffy always comes back to the rest of the Scoobies in the end. It's as if she doesn't realize just how great she has it when compared to the Slayers of the past. She's always looking for someone who can understand and share...when in fact the closest anyone will ever truly come are already right there in front of her.
Of course, she wouldn't know that at this stage...but is BTVS has one constant theme over it's seven year run it's the dichotomy between the loneliness of her calling and the priceless gift of her family.
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Post by SpringSummers on Jun 19, 2003 6:54:09 GMT -5
Spring, your reviews are the class of our site. I've always considered "The I in Team" to be a rather weak episode with some funny moments....then I read your review and feel foolish for having missed so much. Especially the way Buffy always comes back to the rest of the Scoobies in the end. It's as if she doesn't realize just how great she has it when compared to the Slayers of the past. She's always looking for someone who can understand and share...when in fact the closest anyone will ever truly come are already right there in front of her. Of course, she wouldn't know that at this stage...but is BTVS has one constant theme over it's seven year run it's the dichotomy between the loneliness of her calling and the priceless gift of her family. Thanks, Rob. Yes, I agree that in the end, Buffy needs her "family." And for Season 4 in particular, the theme about what Riley mentions in "Pangs" - home is the place where if you have to go there, they have to take you - is a strong one. For both Buffy & Spike - really for all of them, they are "home" to each other, though they don't always know it or want it to be so. |
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Post by raenstorm on Jun 19, 2003 7:03:23 GMT -5
Spring, I really enjoyed this review (well, I enjoy them all  ). I especially liked your points about how the exchange of a gift creates a connection between people, etc. Then, in the next sections of the review, you illustrated how there is various forms of "gifts" being exchanged within the show. I suspect that really struck a cord in me is because I am big on gifts. On one hand I can see how I put a lot of thought into gifts I give to people who are close to me because of the "connection" we share and how important that connection is to me. However, I also see that I give gifts to others (who I am not close to) because I'm trying to create a connection between us. Plus, the lack of gifts from certain people in my life suddenly seem ... more understandable? Ahh, I've rambled enough this morning. Time to get some work done. I just wanted to say thanks, again, for writing such brillant reviews! |
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Post by SpringSummers on Jun 19, 2003 8:55:13 GMT -5
Spring, I really enjoyed this review (well, I enjoy them all ). I especially liked your points about how the exchange of a gift creates a connection between people, etc. Then, in the next sections of the review, you illustrated how there is various forms of "gifts" being exchanged within the show. I suspect that really struck a cord in me is because I am big on gifts. On one hand I can see how I put a lot of thought into gifts I give to people who are close to me because of the "connection" we share and how important that connection is to me. However, I also see that I give gifts to others (who I am not close to) because I'm trying to create a connection between us. Plus, the lack of gifts from certain people in my life suddenly seem ... more understandable? Ahh, I've rambled enough this morning. Time to get some work done. I just wanted to say thanks, again, for writing such brillant reviews! Thanks for letting me know about your reaction to this. The "gift" aspect of the show fascinated me the most, as I guess you could tell. I was worried I was going to get objections over my lack of attention to the Riley/Buffy sex, but really, it struck me as secondary; sort of in the background like Xander's BoostBar selling. |
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Post by S'ewing S'cubie on Jun 20, 2003 15:33:40 GMT -5
I finally got to read your analysis, Spring. As usual, you're right on point. I'm always impressed with your ability to see beneath and through what we're being shown.
This episode disturbed me profoundly. Most particularly Maggie Walsh's ability to spy on "her" boys. Her obvious jealousy of Buffy and her posessiveness toward Riley are large "ew" factors.
I don't think I agree about whether this is sexual jealousy or not. I believe that Prof. Walsh is strongly attracted to Riley, although I'm not sure she is consiously aware of it. I think she reacts much like Salieri in "Amadeus." She sees Buffy as an inane, vulgar little twit possessing little brain power who has been given this extraordinary gift. Maggie's take, IMHO, is that she, herself deserves the gifts that have been "wasted" on Buffy.
In addition, she is jealous that this little twit--working all alone--is more effective than all of Walsh's multi-million dollar government facility and its personnel combined.
So, too, she is jealous of Buffy's youth and beauty. Buffy states carelessly that she frequently fights in her skimpy halter top. Look at Walsh's face at that statement.
No wonder she wants to kill Buffy.
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Post by SpringSummers on Jun 20, 2003 18:11:53 GMT -5
I finally got to read your analysis, Spring. As usual, you're right on point. I'm always impressed with your ability to see beneath and through what we're being shown. This episode disturbed me profoundly. Most particularly Maggie Walsh's ability to spy on "her" boys. Her obvious jealousy of Buffy and her posessiveness toward Riley are large "ew" factors. I don't think I agree about whether this is sexual jealousy or not. I believe that Prof. Walsh is strongly attracted to Riley, although I'm not sure she is consiously aware of it. I think she reacts much like Salieri in "Amadeus." She sees Buffy as an inane, vulgar little twit possessing little brain power who has been given this extraordinary gift. Maggie's take, IMHO, is that she, herself deserves the gifts that have been "wasted" on Buffy. In addition, she is jealous that this little twit--working all alone--is more effective than all of Walsh's multi-million dollar government facility and its personnel combined. So, too, she is jealous of Buffy's youth and beauty. Buffy states carelessly that she frequently fights in her skimpy halter top. Look at Walsh's face at that statement. No wonder she wants to kill Buffy. I mention that I don't think Walsh has a CONSCIOUS sexual interest in Riley, but I do think she has a sexual interest in Riley. I thought that "spanking as sex play" imagery we got from Xander & Anya & Willow, and also Riley's romantic partner Buffy mentioning Riley was going to "get punished" for choosing an unhealthy lunch was imagery directed toward that suggestion - the "ew" mixing of the parental with the sexual. I do agree with the rest of the motivations you mention. Great example regarding Mozart. Perfect. I had not thought of it that way, but I think it's right on the money. Buffy has everything (Riley, but not just Riley) Maggie doesn't have. |
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Post by Queen E on Jun 25, 2003 13:49:27 GMT -5
Just rewatched this episode last night on the DVD. A few things I noticed; at the Bronze, when Riley is paged: "That's our cue. Mother wants us." Definitely eww inducing.  Also, the conflation of the fight scene and the Buffy/Riley consummation, one of the most overt displays of the sex/violence theme in the Buffy canon, prior to, of course, Season 6. Buffy's immediate assumption that Riley has left when she opens her eyes. Also realized: I like Graham. He seems to be the most decent of any of the Initiative guys we've yet seen. I agree, Spring, he has the least invested in the dynamic, but even earlier, in the episode "The Initiative": "'I like her. I'm on your side here." or in conversation with Riley, when he says: "Problem is, what kind of girl's gonna go out with a guy who's acting all Joe Regular by day... And then goes all Demon-Hunter by night? GRAHAM Maybe a peculiar one. RILEY Thank you, Graham. Obviously, he knows how to be a friend, and I'm kinda sorry we didn't see more of him before Riley was completed folded into Buffy's world. I used to hate the fact that in Season 5, Graham refers to him as "the mission's boyfriend." I still think that it is rather sexist, but there was definitely a loss of identity with Riley, which contributed to his acting like a jackass in Season 5. Graham wasn't wrong; that was his function after he left the Initiative and I can understand where that would not be enough, for a woman or a man. |
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Post by SpringSummers on Jun 25, 2003 19:57:56 GMT -5
Just rewatched this episode last night on the DVD. A few things I noticed; at the Bronze, when Riley is paged: "That's our cue. Mother wants us." Definitely eww inducing. Also, the conflation of the fight scene and the Buffy/Riley consummation, one of the most overt displays of the sex/violence theme in the Buffy canon, prior to, of course, Season 6. Buffy's immediate assumption that Riley has left when she opens her eyes. Also realized: I like Graham. He seems to be the most decent of any of the Initiative guys we've yet seen. I agree, Spring, he has the least invested in the dynamic, but even earlier, in the episode "The Initiative": "'I like her. I'm on your side here." or in conversation with Riley, when he says: "Problem is, what kind of girl's gonna go out with a guy who's acting all Joe Regular by day... And then goes all Demon-Hunter by night? GRAHAM Maybe a peculiar one. RILEY Thank you, Graham. Obviously, he knows how to be a friend, and I'm kinda sorry we didn't see more of him before Riley was completed folded into Buffy's world. I used to hate the fact that in Season 5, Graham refers to him as "the mission's boyfriend." I still think that it is rather sexist, but there was definitely a loss of identity with Riley, which contributed to his acting like a jackass in Season 5. Graham wasn't wrong; that was his function after he left the Initiative and I can understand where that would not be enough, for a woman or a man. Speaking of eww-inducing, I noticed something I forgot to mention in the analysis . . . how about Riley telling Buffy that Walsh liked her before he did? I thought the underlying implication was that part of Riley's initial interest in Buffy was related to Walsh liking her. |
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Post by Queen E on Jun 26, 2003 14:04:21 GMT -5
Speaking of eww-inducing, I noticed something I forgot to mention in the analysis . . . how about Riley telling Buffy that Walsh liked her before he did? I thought the underlying implication was that part of Riley's initial interest in Buffy was related to Walsh liking her. It was! Riley didn't even remember her the first day of class until she mentioned dropping the books on his head. When Buffy told Walsh off about being mean to Willow, Walsh told Riley: "I like her." Riley's response? "You do?" and then, and only then, did he begin to show an interest in her. That always creeped me out, because obviously he needed her approval. This is even more evident later when Adam calls her mother and continually refers to Riley as a "brother." I'm all caught up on your essays; when will a new one go up? (no pressure). |
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Post by SpringSummers on Jun 26, 2003 15:10:53 GMT -5
It was! Riley didn't even remember her the first day of class until she mentioned dropping the books on his head. When Buffy told Walsh off about being mean to Willow, Walsh told Riley: "I like her." Riley's response? "You do?" and then, and only then, did he begin to show an interest in her. That always creeped me out, because obviously he needed her approval. This is even more evident later when Adam calls her mother and continually refers to Riley as a "brother." I'm all caught up on your essays; when will a new one go up? (no pressure). I sent the new analysis to Vlad last Saturday. He usually has them up right away - a day or two at most, but I guess he has been both overwhelmed by getting us "moved" and has gotten sick on top of that. So I don't know. It is about "Goodbye Iowa" where Riley gets the shakes, Adam kills a little boy, and Spike gets booted out of the demon bar. Yes - Riley was very dependent on Walsh and her approval . . . since my analyses are Spike-centric, I don't spend as much time on Riley as I could, and I don't get into it that much, but there is plenty of strangeness going on between Riley & Walsh. In Goodbye Iowa, he gets jealous when Adam calls Walsh "mother "and says Walsh loved him. He is devastated both by her death and by the realization that she was far from perfect. He had her up on a pedestal. |
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Post by fredspuffed on Jul 24, 2004 22:58:21 GMT -5
When buffy and riley have the sex --somewhere in that scene buffy sucks his finger it reminded me of ffl and spike&dru
also in spikes crypt when giles is there it looks like a statue of mary ( our mother)is on the left side of the screen and i think its his right side. could that mean anything?
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Post by SpringSummers on Jul 26, 2004 5:24:47 GMT -5
When buffy and riley have the sex --somewhere in that scene buffy sucks his finger it reminded me of ffl and spike&dru also in spikes crypt when giles is there it looks like a statue of mary ( our mother)is on the left side of the screen and i think its his right side. could that mean anything? I didn't notice the finger-sucking, but it could be related to drawing parallels with Spike and Dru. We get definite parallels drawn when Riley breaks up with Buffy, for essentially the same reason that Dru breaks up with Spike - he senses that Buffy's heart isn't really in it. I have noticed the statuary in Spike's crypt before, and my memory is that is is mostly female images, and I think you are right about the madonna, but I'd have to go back and check. With Spike's history with his mom and with women in general, and the way he defines himself according to the women he loves, I do imagine that this is deliberate. |
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). I especially liked your points about how the exchange of a gift creates a connection between people, etc. Then, in the next sections of the review, you illustrated how there is various forms of "gifts" being exchanged within the show. 
Also, the conflation of the fight scene and the Buffy/Riley consummation, one of the most overt displays of the sex/violence theme in the Buffy canon, prior to, of course, Season 6. Buffy's immediate assumption that Riley has left when she opens her eyes.