WAR ZONE: Mirror, Mirror

[Queen E]

Post. I triple dare you.

[Lola m]

Oh, oh, oh, how I liked that you talk about War Zone as being more than the obvious "metaphor" for a comparison between the rich/high living/entertainment world of L.A. and the dangerous real world of the streets. Because while it does that very nicely, it is more than just that. Yes, as you point out, they are doing a compare and contrast between the life of David Nabbit (rich, lonely, with an amazing mind and talent but lost socially) to Gunn (poor, surrounded by "family", with a purpose and a mission, but losing himself in the thrill of the hunt). But Gunn is much more than just a metaphor for "real" L.A. He is very much his own person - with a story arc all his own stretching before him.

You found so many wonderful examples of the paralleling of Gunn and Angel. A lot more than I ever spotted! Particularly when you point out:

Had it been Gunn who was turned, the implication is that he would have rivaled Angelus in the evil department. Both can even claim a factory as a place of residence!

The paragraphs talking about examples of "playing" and "games" and "fantasy" were very interesting. I liked how you even brought in a very telling observation about Cordy and Wes.

Therein lies the difference between Cordelia and Wesley, one that will play out tragically in Seasons 3 and 4; in which both Wesley's "naked truth" and Cordelia's "reality is a choice" will have dire consequences.

But mostly, I love how you bring it back to Gunn. It is, after all, our introduction to him. In a sort of parallel to Xander, Gunn's behavior and motivations will always be influenced by Alonna's death at his hands, just as I believe Xander was (although not as specifically pointed out by the writers) by his staking of Jesse.

So I really liked your closing remarks.

The biggest question in this episode is: Does Gunn ever really recover from the loss of Alonna? He puts it behind him, and commits himself to fighting the good fight, but when that falls apart after the death of Jasmine, we see that he is still in search of integration as much as Angel is. His guilt over what he perceives as his role in Alonna's death colors everything. It's what makes him willing to be made over in Wolfram and Hart's image to shed the last of that Charles Gunn.

Because I tend to forget this element of Gunn. And it's good to be reminded of the things that pushed him to so dislike himself and feel like he had to be someone else, someone "better". 'Cuz, as you said, that's what sent him tumbling down in season 5.

Thanks for the neat analysis, Erin!

Lola

[Queen E]

Lola said:

Oh, oh, oh, how I liked that you talk about War Zone as being more than the obvious "metaphor" for a comparison between the rich/high living/entertainment world of L.A. and the dangerous real world of the streets. Because while it does that very nicely, it is more than just that. Yes, as you point out, they are doing a compare and contrast between the life of David Nabbit (rich, lonely, with an amazing mind and talent but lost socially) to Gunn (poor, surrounded by "family", with a purpose and a mission, but losing himself in the thrill of the hunt). But Gunn is much more than just a metaphor for "real" L.A. He is very much his own person - with a story arc all his own stretching before him.

Thank you! Which is why I was so happy to see him seek out Anne before the big battle; he was "helping" again, but in a non-battle-y capacity...my thought is that after he recovered from the battle, he went back to work with Anne at the shelter, perhaps providing legal expertise...

You found so many wonderful examples of the paralleling of Gunn and Angel. A lot more than I ever spotted! Particularly when you point out:

I'm starting to realize how similar the two are as I watch these episodes...

The paragraphs talking about examples of "playing" and "games" and "fantasy" were very interesting. I liked how you even brought in a very telling observation about Cordy and Wes.

That was fun to see that...it's such a seemingly throwaway bit of dialogue, but given their respective futures, it takes on another, much more poignant dimension.

But mostly, I love how you bring it back to Gunn. It is, after all, our introduction to him. In a sort of parallel to Xander, Gunn's behavior and motivations will always be influenced by Alonna's death at his hands, just as I believe Xander was (although not as specifically pointed out by the writers) by his staking of Jesse.

So I really liked your closing remarks.

Because I tend to forget this element of Gunn. And it's good to be reminded of the things that pushed him to so dislike himself and feel like he had to be someone else, someone "better". 'Cuz, as you said, that's what sent him tumbling down in season 5.

Thanks for the neat analysis, Erin!

Lola

Thank you! He never really overtly references Alonna after "First Impressions" when his girl friend gets injured in a vamp attack at a party, but it's there. It influences so much of what happens with Fred; he feels protective of her and fears her "turning evil" if she kills Prof. Seidel, just as Alonna "turned evil." Neither time is he able to really stop the chain of events. And see how easily Gwen convinced him to help her in "Players"; all she had to say was "there's a little girl in danger."

We definitely are the sum of our experiences in that way, treading over the same ground over and over, even if we aren't always conscious of it.

Thank you for your comments!

[/quote]

[Spaced Out Looney]

Great review, Erin. I'm curious: you mention in earlier reviews that Wesley is "inner Angel," Cordy is Angel's connection to humanity, here you mention the Angel/Gunn parallels; do you think each member of AI represents some facet of Angel, like the Scoobies (Xander=heart, Willow=spirit, Giles=mind) did for Buffy?

Not only did Gunn "ring the dinner bell," but Alonna was the bait. No one can make any assumptions based on what we saw that he forced her into that (an argument could be made that she wanted to, to prove she was "brave enough" for him), but since they are each other's only family, it's reckless either way. This is not yet the Gunn who said in "Players" "it feels good to be doing good;" this is the Gunn who sold his soul for a truck because he put that little value in his chances for survival

Like this observation; interesting point of speculation to consider why each member of AI joined with Angel, how that changed them, and why they stuck together even after everything got blown to hell.

[Queen E]

Spaced said:

Great review, Erin. I'm curious: you mention in earlier reviews that Wesley is "inner Angel," Cordy is Angel's connection to humanity, here you mention the Angel/Gunn parallels; do you think each member of AI represents some facet of Angel, like the Scoobies (Xander=heart, Willow=spirit, Giles=mind) did for Buffy?



Like this observation; interesting point of speculation to consider why each member of AI joined with Angel, how that changed them, and why they stuck together even after everything got blown to hell.

I do believe that, yes, although I think over the course of the series it morphed. At this point, I think that Cordy represents heart, Wes represents the mind, and Gunn represents the spirit. Once Fred and Lorne enter the equation, things are a little less compartmentalized, but all of them are affected by what's happening with the others. When I reviewed "Salvage," I noted that Cordy's corruption corrupted all of them, not only through her subtle manipulations, but the very fact that she was corrupted wrong-footed the entire Fang Gang.

I get the sense, much more than in Buffy, that AI was really a haven for those who felt cast out; freaks, as Gwen called herself.

Thank you so much for your comments; I love a good dialogue on these episodes. There's so much more to them than I got on original viewing.

[Lola m]

Wow. I love both of you guys' thoughts here!

Members of the Fang Gang mirroring different aspects of Angel (much as the scoobies can often be seen as aspects of Buffy).

SOL's observation of how interesting it is to consider why each member of AI joined with Angel and how that changed them.

Great discussion!

Lola

[Queen E]

Lola said:

Wow. I love both of you guys' thoughts here!

Members of the Fang Gang mirroring different aspects of Angel (much as the scoobies can often be seen as aspects of Buffy).

SOL's observation of how interesting it is to consider why each member of AI joined with Angel and how that changed them.

Great discussion!

Lola

Thank you, and please remember to thank yourself...you are a most awesome contributor to the discussion on this thread!

[Karen]

Great review, Erin! I've always kind of known that Gunn was supposed to be paralleling Angel, but I just loved how you pulled this episode in with the rest of the series, especially Season 5. I do believe that if Joss had had more time, he would've made S5 Gunn's season. Now, when I watch S5 when it comes out on DVD, I'm going to look more closely at the parallels between Gunn and Angel.

I LOL's at your They walk alike, they talk alike, sometimes they even dress alike. Interesting choice. In the lyrics for the Patti Duke Show, we find out that the cousins are different at night and day - one's been all around the world, the other has only seen the sights from Brooklyn Heights. But they were cousins - and identical. (Can you tell I was a fan?) So, Angel and Gunn - so much alike with such different backgrounds.

I didn't realize until you pointed it out, that Gunn really did relish the kill, as Angelus did. And Gunn was trying to fight that stereotype all along - and felt inferior to Wesley - who used his brain more than his fists - at first.

I could always see the parallels being drawn between Angel and Wesley, but think now that Wesley was being compared more to Liam than Angel. As Gunn was set up to parallel Angelus. Huh.

Thanks, Erin! More nummy Angel-cake for thought.

I also loved all the Cordy/Wes stuff you brought up. It's really interesting that you brought up how Wes is 'stuck with the naked truth'. At the end of S5, he seemed to settle for the fantasy.

Now to go back and read everyone else's more insightful posts.

[Riff]

Another insightful review! You pick out Gunn’s powerful motivations with surgical precision.

The entire episode starts with a wink-wink mislead: a vampire stopped short with loathing and fear by a man in black boots, a long black trenchcoat...and a doo rag? "You were expecting somebody else?" Silly Gunn, of course we were! Angel coolly facing down 5 or 6 vamps as that delicate minor key intro music starts is an expected trope at this point. They walk alike, they talk alike, sometimes they even dress alike. Aside from the visual joke, this opening shot sets up Gunn and Angel's parallel philosophies and struggles, from where they begin (Galway, the streets of Los Angeles) to where they both end up (Wolfram and Hart), from this very first moment.

Absolutely. This ep certainly reinforces the idea that Angel and Gunn are indeed on similar trajectories. It’s interesting, then, that Gunn goes on to lose the mission more than any of the others. Like all of them, he is looking for acceptance, a place where he belongs and is made to feel welcome and appreciated. He has that when we meet him in this ep, but he quickly loses it. Eventually he’ll adapt to a new gang, the one with fangs. But then again, how much does he really change (one of those Jossverse questions)?

At the end of his rope in Season 5, Angel says "Kill 'em all!" In this episode, we meet Gunn and his gang of "stake-first, ask-questions-later" vampire killers. The words "kill" and "killer" are used over and over again by Gunn and his team. Although we (and the Fang Gang) can understand that this is something they were "driven to," Gunn is different. Like Angelus, he relishes the kill.

Yes, the question of whether a champion is a killer crops up often in both the Angelverse and the Buffyverse.

Gunn is quietly delighted when his mission to kill the Senator in NFA involves much vampire dusting. Hmmm.

Not only did Gunn "ring the dinner bell," but Alonna was the bait. No one can make any assumptions based on what we saw that he forced her into that (an argument could be made that she wanted to, to prove she was "brave enough" for him), but since they are each other's only family, it's reckless either way. This is not yet the Gunn who said in "Players" "it feels good to be doing good;" this is the Gunn who sold his soul for a truck because he put that little value in his chances for survival. He's protective of his "crew," but he is full of "rage and hatred." Rage and hatred of evil, yes, but it's funny how little that distinction matters when it comes to rage and hatred. (We'll see an even darker version of this attitude from Gio, in "That Old Gang of Mine.")

The theme of change appears again here. This is also the Gunn who went on to (symbolically) sell his soul for a second time to Wolfram & Hart.

Had it been Gunn who was turned, the implication is that he would have rivaled Angelus in the evil department. Both can even claim a factory as a place of residence!

I’m sure you’ve read more than once that J. August Richards wanted Gunn to become a vamp and die by dusting himself. He sees that as an appropriate end for Gunn’s character arc (and how do we know he wasn’t turned at the end of NFA? those wounds would kill him in around ten minutes, if he were human ). I suppose his thinking is that Gunn’s hatred for vampires is so powerful it would be a trait that would hang on after he was turned, and become self-loathing.

David's perspective is limited by experience; Angel's is not, and his response to David, "More than one," jumps the viewer straight to Gunn and his crew recovering from their last fight, again underlining the contrast between David's role-playing with Gunn's reality. However, it's not that simple. Gunn and Alonna used to dare each other and others to cross the rotted-out floor at the shelter. Angel asks what Gunn and his crew are "playing at." Gunn and Angel accuse each other of "pretending": Gunn to Angel "pretending" that he's different from other vampires; Angel to Gunn, "pretending" he didn't save Alonna's life. Later, Alonna's pleas to Gunn to consider that Angel could help are ignored: "It's just don't play." At the end of the episode, Gunn wonders if Angel is going to be all "daddy figure" to him. Gunn's car, the booby traps, his "ringing" the dinner bell, may be a survival game, but it's still a game.

Eetah! It’s an interesting situation. Gunn et al are in a real life or death struggle that is also a game. Because their lives have inevitably led them to it, it is, arguably, a game they have no real control over, with an imposed set of rules. So the notion of free will (or the lack of it) is again brought to the fore. We see this again in Players. Gunn makes a nice Humanist speech in response to Fred saying that they are all just pieces on a board, but how much of that is just whistling past the existential graveyard?

Therein lies the difference between Cordelia and Wesley, one that will play out tragically in Seasons 3 and 4; in which both Wesley's "naked truth" and Cordelia's "reality is a choice" will have dire consequences. In this episode, Cordelia's perspective is skewed; not only in her bending reality, but in conflating her existence with that of Gunn's crew and referring to herself as "poor, alone." She has a long way to go.

*nods and smiles*

We have seen quite a bit of character development for Cordy by this stage, but it’s true that she has far to go. It seems that until To Shanshu in LA she is unable to empathise fully (ironically, she believes she is empathising here).

One flaw in Wesley’s character is fatalism itself. He can make difficult decisions because he faces reality, but this is often a bad thing. It means that he takes on responsibility for dealing with (what seem to be) uncomfortable truths. Probably one of the things that attracts him to Fred is her lack of fatalism, and the fact that she does not turn to fantasy so much as insist that reality can be bent to our will and that everything will turn out okay in the end (because we make it do so, presumably).

The biggest question in this episode is: Does Gunn ever really recover from the loss of Alonna? He puts it behind him, and commits himself to fighting the good fight, but when that falls apart after the death of Jasmine, we see that he is still in search of integration as much as Angel is. His guilt over what he perceives as his role in Alonna's death colors everything. It's what makes him willing to be made over in Wolfram and Hart's image to shed the last of that Charles Gunn.

Gunn’s sense of responsibility is different to Wesley’s. It has a paternalistic dimension. He sees his job as protecting Alonna and, later, Fred. These women effectively symbolise the mission to him. He gets over the end of his relationship with Fred relatively quickly and easily, because he has grown enough to see the mission as wider than his personal life. But without a focus, something tangible to protect, he eventually becomes lost. He is the first of the FG to consider accepting Wolfram & Hart’s offer.

In some ways I believe he sees Wes as a role model for the change he wants to bring about in himself (not that we would think that from this ep!). The brain boost, which (significantly, I think) involves the learning of languages, is the result of his desire to have the kind of knowledge Wes and Fred do. That becomes his focus.

[Queen E]

Karen said:

Great review, Erin! I've always kind of known that Gunn was supposed to be paralleling Angel, but I just loved how you pulled this episode in with the rest of the series, especially Season 5. I do believe that if Joss had had more time, he would've made S5 Gunn's season. Now, when I watch S5 when it comes out on DVD, I'm going to look more closely at the parallels between Gunn and Angel.

You and me both..I just got it on Thursday!

I LOL's at your They walk alike, they talk alike, sometimes they even dress alike. Interesting choice. In the lyrics for the Patti Duke Show, we find out that the cousins are different at night and day - one's been all around the world, the other has only seen the sights from Brooklyn Heights. But they were cousins - and identical. (Can you tell I was a fan?) So, Angel and Gunn - so much alike with such different backgrounds.

That was a bit before my time, but I knew a bit of the story, and it seemed rather apropos. And it really fits nicely with Gunn's "distrust" of Angel that remains up to the end of Season 4. He distrusts himself and his own instincts.

I didn't realize until you pointed it out, that Gunn really did relish the kill, as Angelus did. And Gunn was trying to fight that stereotype all along - and felt inferior to Wesley - who used his brain more than his fists - at first.

I could always see the parallels being drawn between Angel and Wesley, but think now that Wesley was being compared more to Liam than Angel. As Gunn was set up to parallel Angelus. Huh.

Thanks, Erin! More nummy Angel-cake for thought.

Hee! Angel cake! And eetah on the Liam/Wes connection...starting with the dueling father issues, the main one being a complete lack of approval. The difference is how they deal with it: Liam by being as bad and debauched as he can, Wes by trying (and failing) to be the best.

I also loved all the Cordy/Wes stuff you brought up. It's really interesting that you brought up how Wes is 'stuck with the naked truth'. At the end of S5, he seemed to settle for the fantasy.

Now to go back and read everyone else's more insightful posts.

Grr. Your post is very insightful! And nice job bringing in the Season 5 fantasy moment...I hadn't even thought that far ahead. Thank you for posting your shiny thoughts!

[Queen E]

Riff said:

Another insightful review! You pick out Gunn’s powerful motivations with surgical precision.

Does that mean I'm The Doctor?

Absolutely. This ep certainly reinforces the idea that Angel and Gunn are indeed on similar trajectories. It’s interesting, then, that Gunn goes on to lose the mission more than any of the others. Like all of them, he is looking for acceptance, a place where he belongs and is made to feel welcome and appreciated. He has that when we meet him in this ep, but he quickly loses it. Eventually he’ll adapt to a new gang, the one with fangs. But then again, how much does he really change (one of those Jossverse questions)?

Indeed. I think its significant that "Players" is the last Gunn-centric episode of Season 4...he wanted to be a "player" not just the muscle...one of the big cats, not just a "sidekick." He certainly achieved that; in the absolutel wrong way. W & H knew precisely what to offer him...just as they did with Lindsey in "Blind Date" (which I'll talk about in my next analysis.

Yes, the question of whether a champion is a killer crops up often in both the Angelverse and the Buffyverse.

Gunn is quietly delighted when his mission to kill the Senator in NFA involves much vampire dusting. Hmmm.

Yes...and that more than anything else really brings him back to his beginning.

The theme of change appears again here. This is also the Gunn who went on to (symbolically) sell his soul for a second time to Wolfram & Hart.

Also in how much do we really change? The accoutrements may change, but I think each character becomes more of who they are as the seasons progress.

I’m sure you’ve read more than once that J. August Richards wanted Gunn to become a vamp and die by dusting himself. He sees that as an appropriate end for Gunn’s character arc (and how do we know he wasn’t turned at the end of NFA? those wounds would kill him in around ten minutes, if he were human ). I suppose his thinking is that Gunn’s hatred for vampires is so powerful it would be a trait that would hang on after he was turned, and become self-loathing.

I hadn't read that, surprisingly enough...but it does make sense. Season 6 will certainly answer those questions, methinks.

Eetah! It’s an interesting situation. Gunn et al are in a real life or death struggle that is also a game. Because their lives have inevitably led them to it, it is, arguably, a game they have no real control over, with an imposed set of rules. So the notion of free will (or the lack of it) is again brought to the fore. We see this again in Players. Gunn makes a nice Humanist speech in response to Fred saying that they are all just pieces on a board, but how much of that is just whistling past the existential graveyard?

And he really conveys that ambiguity in that episode, too (a nice turn by J. August Richards). He wants to believe it, and he wants Fred to believe it, and I think sometimes the "lie" of it can become the truth if you believe enough, which fits nicely with the Jasmine arc as well as Connor's fate.

*nods and smiles*

We have seen quite a bit of character development for Cordy by this stage, but it’s true that she has far to go. It seems that until To Shanshu in LA she is unable to empathise fully (ironically, she believes she is empathising here).

Damn, though, what a horrifying way to learn.

One flaw in Wesley’s character is fatalism itself. He can make difficult decisions because he faces reality, but this is often a bad thing. It means that he takes on responsibility for dealing with (what seem to be) uncomfortable truths. Probably one of the things that attracts him to Fred is her lack of fatalism, and the fact that she does not turn to fantasy so much as insist that reality can be bent to our will and that everything will turn out okay in the end (because we make it do so, presumably).

Excellent point...and fits in nicely with Fred's arc overall. Because of that power of Fred's, Illyria, in some ways, struck me less as an "invader" and more like superconcentrated Fred.

Gunn’s sense of responsibility is different to Wesley’s. It has a paternalistic dimension. He sees his job as protecting Alonna and, later, Fred. These women effectively symbolise the mission to him. He gets over the end of his relationship with Fred relatively quickly and easily, because he has grown enough to see the mission as wider than his personal life. But without a focus, something tangible to protect, he eventually becomes lost. He is the first of the FG to consider accepting Wolfram & Hart’s offer.

In some ways I believe he sees Wes as a role model for the change he wants to bring about in himself (not that we would think that from this ep!). The brain boost, which (significantly, I think) involves the learning of languages, is the result of his desire to have the kind of knowledge Wes and Fred do. That becomes his focus.

Absolutely. I'd say more, but you've pretty much said it!

Thank you for your feedback! I love these discussions!