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Post by Queen E on Dec 13, 2005 15:33:46 GMT -5
Shoes and shirts not required to post here.
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Post by Lola m on Dec 16, 2005 16:58:37 GMT -5
#claps# Love love love the start to this analysis! The different examples of thrall - from the funny (puppets and pink leather pants) to the heartwrenching (Drusilla becoming the image of Jenny, Kendra's death). I would never have thought to compare that to Darla's hold on Angel, and yet it all comes together beautifully in this episodee. But my favorite part was your discussion of the parallel between Drusilla and Cordelia. It never really struck me before how very much a part of this episode that concept is. From the opening scenes with Cordy's vision and the references to Drusilla's vision to the idea of Angel as agent of corruption. I love that you quote Kate's "innocents caught in the crossfire" speech. Because as you point out, in some ways, she's right - Cordelia's association with Angel to some extent dooms her. Kate is also wrong in a lot of ways (Cordy's life and those of Wes and Gunn are also made more meaningful by the lives they save and the people they help), but I think we're meant to hear her words and pay attention. I think we're really meant to think about action versus non-action. How much can be harmed by what we do? But, also, like the point you make about Lorne, how much can be harmed by what we neglect to do? As a side note, can you believe that until I was reading this, I never thought about the similarity in names between Drusilla and Cordelia? Or thought about the phrase "family-sized vibes" as projecting forward to Connor as opposed to just backward to Darla and Dru.  You really do a marvelous job laying out the interweaving themes of prostitution and acting, of the show and the game. From Gunn's clear head to Angel's repeated word choice, I can really see how this ties us back once again to thrall - reality versus what's really going on. And we'll keep following that thread along with Angel until his final epiphany after his little chat in the elevator with Holland Manners. A really really insightful analysis, Erin. Most excellent. |
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Post by Queen E on Dec 16, 2005 17:47:00 GMT -5
 Love love love the start to this analysis! The different examples of thrall - from the funny (puppets and pink leather pants) to the heartwrenching (Drusilla becoming the image of Jenny, Kendra's death). I would never have thought to compare that to Darla's hold on Angel, and yet it all comes together beautifully in this episodee. Thank you so much! The thrall demon seemed particularly appropriate...and no "chance" McGuffin, as some of the demons seem to be. It didn't really occur to me, either, until I started taking notes, and then I'm like, "Holy crap! They are paralleling!" The blondes make him lose his soul (Buffy, name-checked in this episode, and Darla), and the brunettes get corrupted. Especially when he starts sniffing Cordy's hair... There is such a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" vibe throughout the whole series, and Angel even expresses that in "Happy Anniversary." He does tend to act when he shouldn't, and no act when he should. As do the others. Except Lorne; Lorne does tend to be fairly consistent in being "non-action" guy. And here's the punchline; if Lorne had known, and told Angel, "If you continue to involve yourself with Darla, she will eventually give birth to the boy who will give birth to an apocalyptic goddess who will hold humanity in thrall" (there's that word again!), would it have stopped him? In some ways, it goes back to the Angel/Angelus dichotomy. From which side does this obsessive behavior come from? Oh, good point! Very old fashioned, almost Shakespearan names. The family-sized thing initially passed me by too; looking back and knowing how it ends gives that a whole new resonance... Thank you so much, for all that! Angel is definitely a "wild card" when it comes to the good fight; because he has so much guilt and denies so much of himself, he ends up occasionally being an easy mark for those who want to play him. I read an essay recently that referred to Angel's narrative as that of the "powerful victim" and I think that really speaks volumes about his character. Thank you again, Lola, for your insights and awesomeness! |
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Post by Lola m on Dec 17, 2005 12:06:38 GMT -5
Love love love the start to this analysis! The different examples of thrall - from the funny (puppets and pink leather pants) to the heartwrenching (Drusilla becoming the image of Jenny, Kendra's death). I would never have thought to compare that to Darla's hold on Angel, and yet it all comes together beautifully in this episode. Thank you so much! The thrall demon seemed particularly appropriate...and no "chance" McGuffin, as some of the demons seem to be. It didn't really occur to me, either, until I started taking notes, and then I'm like, "Holy crap! They are paralleling!" The blondes make him lose his soul (Buffy, name-checked in this episode, and Darla), and the brunettes get corrupted. Especially when he starts sniffing Cordy's hair... There is such a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" vibe throughout the whole series, and Angel even expresses that in "Happy Anniversary." He does tend to act when he shouldn't, and no act when he should. As do the others. Except Lorne; Lorne does tend to be fairly consistent in being "non-action" guy. And here's the punchline; if Lorne had known, and told Angel, "If you continue to involve yourself with Darla, she will eventually give birth to the boy who will give birth to an apocalyptic goddess who will hold humanity in thrall" (there's that word again!), would it have stopped him? In some ways, it goes back to the Angel/Angelus dichotomy. From which side does this obsessive behavior come from? Oh, good point! Very old fashioned, almost Shakespearan names. The family-sized thing initially passed me by too; looking back and knowing how it ends gives that a whole new resonance... Thank you so much, for all that! Angel is definitely a "wild card" when it comes to the good fight; because he has so much guilt and denies so much of himself, he ends up occasionally being an easy mark for those who want to play him. I read an essay recently that referred to Angel's narrative as that of the "powerful victim" and I think that really speaks volumes about his character. Thank you again, Lola, for your insights and awesomeness! What really struck me this time, and what I hadn't noticed before, is that the flashbacks really are all telling Dru's story, not Darla's. I mean, through that story we learn a lot about Darla and Angelus as well, about their little family. But the plot - the story - is Dru's. Which, when you think about it, should have struck one as odd - seeing as how the episode is supposedly about Darla. But really, it's telling us what the real story is about and a good hint to future events. And I think we're supposed to start to realize that Darla and Angel could also be seen as "innocents corrupted" - even though when they were human they weren't pure and virginal like Dru was, they still were souled human beings who were killed and reanimated with by a demon. I mean, I think Angel is sort of referring to this when he talks about how the soul she has again now will start making itself known. They wouldn't really be able to feel the pain and guilt about what they did in the same way if the soul didn't remind them of that innocence. Also makes me think of the moment between Angel and Spike at the end of Damage: |
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Post by Onjel on Dec 17, 2005 13:23:24 GMT -5
Fire bad. Tree pretty. My mind is a blank. I loved your analysis, Erin! I wish I had enough of the episode in the accessible parts of my memory to comment. The beginning comments about thrall and Darla's thrall hold over Angel were great! I never even thought of that. But, you could say that his love at first sight of small blonde Buffy was an extension of that thrall. Buffy and Darla, with their similarity of appearance are still the antithesis of each other; two sides of the same coin, as it were. It makes sense that Angel's obsession with the Darla side would lead him to seek out the extreme opposite of the Buffy side. In his mind he would be purging himself of his Darla obsession, when, in fact, he is underscoring it. It's why things with Buffy really could never have worked out between them. She is too much a reminder of Darla and Darla's hold over Angel and he could never be free until he spent that coin and got it out of his life. Ok. I've just burnt out what few brain cells are firing today, so I'll shut up now. Again, wonderful analysis! |
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Post by Queen E on Dec 18, 2005 13:47:39 GMT -5
Thank you so much! The thrall demon seemed particularly appropriate...and no "chance" McGuffin, as some of the demons seem to be. It didn't really occur to me, either, until I started taking notes, and then I'm like, "Holy crap! They are paralleling!" The blondes make him lose his soul (Buffy, name-checked in this episode, and Darla), and the brunettes get corrupted. Especially when he starts sniffing Cordy's hair... There is such a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" vibe throughout the whole series, and Angel even expresses that in "Happy Anniversary." He does tend to act when he shouldn't, and no act when he should. As do the others. Except Lorne; Lorne does tend to be fairly consistent in being "non-action" guy. And here's the punchline; if Lorne had known, and told Angel, "If you continue to involve yourself with Darla, she will eventually give birth to the boy who will give birth to an apocalyptic goddess who will hold humanity in thrall" (there's that word again!), would it have stopped him? In some ways, it goes back to the Angel/Angelus dichotomy. From which side does this obsessive behavior come from? Oh, good point! Very old fashioned, almost Shakespearan names. The family-sized thing initially passed me by too; looking back and knowing how it ends gives that a whole new resonance... Thank you so much, for all that! Angel is definitely a "wild card" when it comes to the good fight; because he has so much guilt and denies so much of himself, he ends up occasionally being an easy mark for those who want to play him. I read an essay recently that referred to Angel's narrative as that of the "powerful victim" and I think that really speaks volumes about his character. Thank you again, Lola, for your insights and awesomeness! What really struck me this time, and what I hadn't noticed before, is that the flashbacks really are all telling Dru's story, not Darla's. I mean, through that story we learn a lot about Darla and Angelus as well, about their little family. But the plot - the story - is Dru's. Which, when you think about it, should have struck one as odd - seeing as how the episode is supposedly about Darla. But really, it's telling us what the real story is about and a good hint to future events. And I think we're supposed to start to realize that Darla and Angel could also be seen as "innocents corrupted" - even though when they were human they weren't pure and virginal like Dru was, they still were souled human beings who were killed and reanimated with by a demon. I mean, I think Angel is sort of referring to this when he talks about how the soul she has again now will start making itself known. They wouldn't really be able to feel the pain and guilt about what they did in the same way if the soul didn't remind them of that innocence. Also makes me think of the moment between Angel and Spike at the end of Damage: No, you're absolutely right. Drusilla really stands in as both one of the worst atrocities that Angelus and Darla were capable of, as well as a metaphor for what happened to them. It's easy to dismiss the two of them as having a certain "innate" evil, as Darla in fact says in the water tank. "You don't learn that kind of darkness; it's innate." So why does Drusilla, "a saint" inflict so much damage? Why does Spike, a "good man" and an artist, cut such a swath of damage as a vampire. There is an argument that the level of corruption is larger due to the large amount of virtue that a person possesses as a human, but Darla and Liam, as humans, would never be accused to being virtuous. I think Darla has oversimplified, as we in fact need to look at the cultures of Darla and Liam as somewhat different than Dru and Spike. Dru and Spike were Victorians; the level of social repression, not necessarily virtue was valued, but the appearance of it was everything...not to mention the sexual repression; hence the way to "undo" Spike and Dru is sexually based. Dru responded to death and loss of her family by committing her life to God; what sent her around the bend was the "snake in the woodshed" moment. William, quiet and fearful of pickpockets, is undone by the sexual overtures and emotional connection of Dru. Liam and Darla were sexual beings before being turned, and lived outside of the boundaries of normal behavior as humans. That "outsider" status led to a longer amount of time before their "souls" made themselves felt...I think Darla's sense that their "darkness" is "innate" has more to do with that sense that both were in the "dark" before they were turned. However, she does not realize that whether you choose to be or society puts you on the fringe of "standard" societal behavior does not make you "evil." If that was the case...Buffy and Xander and Willow and Dawn would be evil. The fact that all 4 of them struggle with the "dark" of being outsiders is manifested in their struggle against or capitulation to that very idea. Thank you for your awesome thoughts. |
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Post by Queen E on Dec 18, 2005 13:49:29 GMT -5
Fire bad. Tree pretty. My mind is a blank. I loved your analysis, Erin! I wish I had enough of the episode in the accessible parts of my memory to comment. The beginning comments about thrall and Darla's thrall hold over Angel were great! I never even thought of that. But, you could say that his love at first sight of small blonde Buffy was an extension of that thrall. Buffy and Darla, with their similarity of appearance are still the antithesis of each other; two sides of the same coin, as it were. It makes sense that Angel's obsession with the Darla side would lead him to seek out the extreme opposite of the Buffy side. In his mind he would be purging himself of his Darla obsession, when, in fact, he is underscoring it. It's why things with Buffy really could never have worked out between them. She is too much a reminder of Darla and Darla's hold over Angel and he could never be free until he spent that coin and got it out of his life. Ok. I've just burnt out what few brain cells are firing today, so I'll shut up now. Again, wonderful analysis! For a blank mind...you've got some awfully intelligent nonthoughts!  You're absolutely right...and this becomes even more clear in "Guise Will Be Guise," when Angel meets with the faux Tish Magev. Thank you for your compliments and your thoughts! #woot2# |
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