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Post by Cal on Oct 18, 2004 19:08:21 GMT -5
Thank you for sharing such a personal experience with us, Spring. This analysis was as moving as I expected it to be. You put so much of yourself into it. It must have been incredibly difficult to write.
We all have our own way of coping with death and grief. Joss opened himself up to us when he gave us this episode. He showed us the stark reality of death and the different ways each character dealt with it.
Your analysis, as always, made me think. It brought back memories of people I have lost and grief I have felt.
My Mum found her Dad dead in bed when she was fifteen. That experience has had a profound affect on her life. She had argued with him the night before he died and she has never forgiven herself for it. She taught us to never go to sleep on an argument...something I have tried to stick to my whole life.
One thing I do know. Life does go on. Even when you feel like it never will...that it can't. But it does.
I thank Joss from the bottom of my heart, for giving us this episode...as difficult as it is to watch. I also thank you, Spring. For showing me that I'm not alone. {{Spring}}
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Oct 18, 2004 19:41:59 GMT -5
Actually I referring to how I was intrigued by your connecting the episode to one of the big buffy themes: It's all about POWER! But I totally see what you were getting at with regards to Buffy in season 6. Very insightful.
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 19, 2004 7:57:26 GMT -5
Thank you for sharing such a personal experience with us, Spring. This analysis was as moving as I expected it to be. You put so much of yourself into it. It must have been incredibly difficult to write. Thanks for taking the time to express this, cal. I was kind of dreading this one. But then I was glad I did it. You're welcome. Anyone who has been through enormous shock and the disorientation involved - ah. It is so hard to put into words, but Joss managed to put it on film, anyhow.
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 19, 2004 8:02:01 GMT -5
Actually I referring to how I was intrigued by your connecting the episode to one of the big buffy themes: It's all about POWER! But I totally see what you were getting at with regards to Buffy in season 6. Very insightful. Yes - the power thing. That's going to take us right through to series-end. Your mention of the Spike-quote made me think of my other Spike reference. Sometimes I put little things into an analysis that only the similarly obsessed are likely to pick up. I rewatched Forever but haven't begun the analysis yet. Well, I took a few rough notes. Hope to have it to Vlad this weekend at the latest.
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Post by Kerrie on Oct 19, 2004 23:56:59 GMT -5
You are truly an exceptional lady, Spring! There is no Spike in this episode. It would have been so easy to exclude it. I admit that I find this episode so painful and so like how I imagine the death of a close family member to be that I cannot watch the episode even though I remember the starkness and disjointedness and inananess of it all vividly. Thank you for sharing.
In terms of your analysis, I read this analysis straight from reading the last one. The link between love, flowers and death was great. I also liked the "power" reference and all the quotes.
Forgive me if I have the wrong episode, but isn't this the episode where Dawn stole Anya's earings? I am not sure but I think this is the first time that Dawn steals which links back to "Crush" and Spike role-modelling theft. It also raised questions for me about why Buffy's innocent self would start stealing from Anya after her mother died. Does Anya represent Buffy's materialistic side or have I taken the personification thing too far?
For the record I have been reading your analyses, but haven't had time to go through them because of assignments (I am supposed to be working on my "violence on TV as a social issue" paper and a unit plan for optimization; the first was due yesterday and the second which I know nothing about and have not started is due today ::)). I finish studying in three weeks and I have promised myself time to go through and comment on all your analyses as a special treat. On the positive side I have started recruiting amongst my class-mates. One read "Crush" and is extremely impressed by the quality of your analyses. I am hoping to coerce her into joining the S'Cubie gang soon when she has finished her assignments. I have to do a poster and brochure for my last assignment and I will be making references to BtVS and the S'Cubies. Unfortunately I realised too late that for my issues paper I could have used the _______(insert you own word/phrase) cancellation of AtS as my issue. (I think students should learn about this shocking decision as a matter of social justice and a negative example of democratic process! ;) ;D )
I will get back to the grindstone now! Cheers. Thanks. I will return in three weeks!
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 20, 2004 0:45:04 GMT -5
You are truly an exceptional lady, Spring! There is no Spike in this episode. It would have been so easy to exclude it. I admit that I find this episode so painful and so like how I imagine the death of a close family member to be that I cannot watch the episode even though I remember the starkness and disjointedness and inananess of it all vividly. Thank you for sharing. KERRIE! Hi there, lady, and thanks for your kind words. This is not the episode where Dawn steals earrings - I forget when that is. However, I do think that in Season 6, Dawn - who I do think represents Buffy's . . . purity and desire to love and be loved . . . - is stealing what she needs. This is what Buffy is doing with Spike - trying to take what she needs without paying. Oh, please do if you get the time. It will be a treat for me too. I love to get comments on threads that have "died." Yay!! Tell it like it is, sister!! I am counting on it!
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Post by Linda on Oct 20, 2004 5:36:46 GMT -5
Hi Spring,
I just wanted to let you know how much I admire and appreciate your analysis. I am taking the time to post this now because I don't know if I can bring myself to watch this episode any time soon. The Body is beautiful and stunningly painful and it scares me because I haven't had to face this particular situation yet. Joss's bravery & genius here leave me awed.
So: Thank you for the analysis and the sharing and the insights and all the courage and pain and effort it took you to write it. I believe it does justice to the episode. I can't think of any higher praise than that.
Linda H.
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 20, 2004 7:18:20 GMT -5
Hi Spring, I just wanted to let you know how much I admire and appreciate your analysis. I am taking the time to post this now because I don't know if I can bring myself to watch this episode any time soon. The Body is beautiful and stunningly painful and it scares me because I haven't had to face this particular situation yet. Joss's bravery & genius here leave me awed. So: Thank you for the analysis and the sharing and the insights and all the courage and pain and effort it took you to write it. I believe it does justice to the episode. I can't think of any higher praise than that. Linda H. Thanks, Linda - that is high praise, yes. Joss brave and unflinching portrayal helped me take courage in trying to do the same. The Body should scare you as far as how devestating death can be - but there is also reason to take hope in it. It all seems unbearable and like it will never, ever end - but our characters are already starting to come out of it by the end of the episode. One thing I think we see under the surface for the rest of the Season (and S6) is the linger effects of this trauma (and then Buffy's "death") for Buffy and everyone. I remember in my own experience how slowly - and how, at times, almost tangibly - the numbness and detachment and pain faded.
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Post by Cal on Oct 20, 2004 10:54:12 GMT -5
Spring said:
The episode where Dawn steals Anya's earrings is Intervention. I watched it a few days ago. I'd forgotten that Dawn had started stealing things at this stage of season 5.
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Post by LadyDi on Oct 22, 2004 16:19:25 GMT -5
Have been trying to formulate a response to this, but really, what can be said? The pain of loss is such a universal theme, and creates connections between us even as it severs them. {{Spring}}
As for s6, in France orgasms are known as 'the little death.'
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 22, 2004 19:04:34 GMT -5
Have been trying to formulate a response to this, but really, what can be said? The pain of loss is such a universal theme, and creates connections between us even as it severs them. {{Spring}} As for s6, in France orgasms are known as 'the little death.' Thanks so much LadyDi. Your faithful feedback and valuable additions, to just about every thread here, are much appreciated by me. Love and hugs right back at ya.
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Post by Lola m on Nov 2, 2004 17:49:02 GMT -5
Very moving and thoughtful analysis, Spring. What a dilemma we face when looking at this episode! How can we possibly keep our own experiences with, and feelings about, death from informing our reaction to the episode? I suppose one could try to look at it and analyze it strictly as just another episode (as though there is such a thing as just another episode of BtVS!) But that isn’t what Joss wanted either. He wrote it to express how a death really affects those left behind. He used his own experiences of loss to craft one of the most realistically filmed depictions I ever seen of how it feels to react to a loss. The inability to focus, the odd compression or expansion of time, the details that you notice and the big things that you miss, the way the world refuses to stop moving when your world stops, etc. So it’s only right that we bring our own visceral reaction to the episode to any review or analysis of it. It is, after all, what Joss was trying to do. So I’m very glad (and honored) that you accepted the special challenge of writing directly about your own experience. The Body always makes me at least sniffle. Usually I flat out cry. And yet, it’s not that it specifically makes me think of my own mother’s death. Instead, I seem to put myself in Tara’s POV – like I’m looking at what Buffy is going through and wanting to help somehow. It’s an odd thing – it’s like every time I watch, I react as if Buffy were really going through this right now, and I have empathy for her because of my own experience from years ago. If for some reason I’m not already or still crying when that scene in the hospital between Buffy and Tara comes on, I always cry again when Buffy asks if Tara’s mother’s death was sudden and she replies “No. And yes.” Because that could be me saying that. And so I think we all put ourselves into this episode somehow, even more so than other BtVS ones. On to the review! Loved your examples of the images of powerlessness – what makes this episode so special and real is how it addresses Buffy’s issues with power in a different way than we usually see. We saw her usual reaction several eps back, when Joyce was first sick. The “slayer” reaction – magic or a demon must somehow be involved, there must be something I can beat up or kill, etc. This episode showcases primarily human!Buffy – reacting and handling things as any of the rest of us might. I’m so glad you mentioned Joss’ commentary! I would encourage anyone who has, or has access to, the DVDs to listen to the commentary if they haven’t already done so. As you point out, he talks frequently about how he created elements to continue the theme of “physicality”. Also, as usual, I found his comments on camera angles, framing, etc. to be particularly revealing and helpful to me. All of these combine to help you feel the impact of harsh reality hitting Buffy. Very apt analogy of birth and death! And, as usual, I really appreciate the level of detail you point out using specific words or lines. For example: I, along with many other folks I know, have always loved the speech that Anya gives in Willow’s room and am glad you quoted it. I also love a much smaller moment later in the waiting room scene. When Anya says “I wish that Joyce didn’t die . . .. because she was nice. And now we all hurt” and Buffy really looks at her, really sees her and sincerely says “thank you”. Because just at that moment, she realizes what it means that Anya always speaks the truth. Very much loved this bit: Because I love the reminder that Joyce was, in a way, a mother to all the scoobies. And so the reverberations from her death affect them too – not only Buffy directly, and not only the other scoobies indirectly through Buffy. I had never really thought of the connection to Restless (with Joyce behind a wall) in just the way you discuss here and found it very interesting. Thanks for this new way of looking at that scene! Finally, I’ll just quote one more passage from your analysis that I liked particularly well. Thank you, Spring, for doing the same thing, in your own way! Lola I re-watched this episode, (and listened to Joss’ commentary for the first time), on Halloween this year – when the veils were thin and a new year was beginning – and I thought about my own mother. Which was a very good thing indeed.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Nov 2, 2004 18:22:40 GMT -5
I also love a much smaller moment later in the waiting room scene. When Anya says “I wish that Joyce didn’t die . . .. because she was nice. And now we all hurt” and Buffy really looks at her, really sees her and sincerely says “thank you”. Because just at that moment, she realizes what it means that Anya always speaks the truth. Thanks for mentioning this! I really like that moment too. I may actually like it better than her longer speech for its simplicity and subtlety. And like you say, its a rare moment when Buffy really really sees and acknowledges Anya.
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 3, 2004 0:38:01 GMT -5
Very moving and thoughtful analysis, Spring. What a dilemma we face when looking at this episode! <snip> So it’s only right that we bring our own visceral reaction to the episode to any review or analysis of it. It is, after all, what Joss was trying to do. So I’m very glad (and honored) that you accepted the special challenge of writing directly about your own experience. Thanks, Lola. And well put - that's exactly how it felt to me - that there wasn't any point in trying to do some sort of dispassionate, objective analysis. I couldn't do it, and really, it's not meant to be viewed that way. Thanks for sharing that here, Lola. It adds to the depth of the episode to think of how the POVs (besides Buffy's) can primarily affect a viewer. Yes, that is a great moment - in it's own way, every bit as great as the longer speech. I also liked the way Xander went from giving his "usual" embarrased-by-Anya look to realizing from Buffy's reaction that it wasn't so bad at all. At least, that's how Xander's changing expressions hit me. You're most welcome.
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