The Body Discussion

[William the Bloody]

Let the discussion begin.

[Nickim]

Spring,

Thank you so much for being willing to go through what it must have taken to do this review.

1 Corinthians 15:26 says that 'death is an enemy' and nothing could be more true. It's the worst enemy we can have, because we can't win the war. Eventually, no matter what we do, or how many skirmishes we survive, death will beat us.

You said "love doesn't stop death", but always remember that death doesn't stop love, either.

[Anne, Old S'cubie Cat]

Spring, I can't imagine what you must have felt, doing this review.

It was outstanding, one of your best (and your reviews are the very best), and very moving. I teared up all over again reading it, and remembering the episode. Thank you.

[leftylady]

Spring, I know exactly how you feel. Twice I have taped "The Body", and twice I have taped over it. As haunting as it is, I could not bring myself to keep the tape, although I will probably watch the episode again when the syndicated run reached that point.

There are those whose comments on "The Body" I've read on other boards who dismiss this episode as overblown or even out of joint for some of the Scubbie reactions and diaglogue, but usually those posters are young and truly blessed not to have yet gone through a close family loss. My mother died suddenly 30 years ago so I relate only too well. It is a tribute to Joss and his writing/directing skills that it can still touch me so deeply and evoke the original feelings of that long ago time. Everything, from the sensation that time and the world had frozen and become exterior to me to the fumbling for words to express the pain, everything in the episode was so true and realistic. (until the vampire at the end, but of course this is "Buffy" after all!) Hearing that Joss was inspired by his own mother's death makes the episode that much more touching.

[Patti - S'cubie Cutie]

Spring, you know what your writing does to me on the 'regular' episodes...

my heart hurts ...for you, and for me...for all of us. I look back at the death of my mother...and this grief your analysis brought back shouldn't fit - she lived long and then when death came it was a "blessing" - because alzheimer's had taken so much from her. But there was still love. She could still love me. I believe in heaven. I believe she is alive - that her spirit is there.
But I miss her so much. I won't ever stop missing her, til I die too.
It was just a show about a blonde and some vampires...what a lie.

[SpringSummers]

Nicki~Hopeless said:

Spring,

Thank you so much for being willing to go through what it must have taken to do this review.

1 Corinthians 15:26 says that 'death is an enemy' and nothing could be more true. It's the worst enemy we can have, because we can't win the war. Eventually, no matter what we do, or how many skirmishes we survive, death will beat us.

You said "love doesn't stop death", but always remember that death doesn't stop love, either.

Thanks, Nicki.

And thanks to all of the S'cubies for making this place the kind of place where I feel safe and comfortable enough to share what is in my heart.

I do think that the episode itself, despite the point it makes about human powerlessness in the face of death, also makes the point that we should - we must - continue onward and get back to the giving and receiving of love.

[SpringSummers]

Anne said:

Spring, I can't imagine what you must have felt, doing this review.

It was outstanding, one of your best (and your reviews are the very best), and very moving. I teared up all over again reading it, and remembering the episode. Thank you.

Anne - thanks for the feedback. I know there are people who read and don't comment, and that is fine, but it really is nice to get feedback and confirmation that people are reading.

It was hard to get going on it, in some ways - because it felt . . . self-indulgent to bring in my own experience, and also I was thinking "people want to read about Buffy, not about YOU." But then it felt . . . impossibly dishonest not to mention it - it's such a huge part of my reaction and feeling about the episode.

[SpringSummers]

leftylady said:

Spring, I know exactly how you feel. Twice I have taped "The Body", and twice I have taped over it. As haunting as it is, I could not bring myself to keep the tape, although I will probably watch the episode again when the syndicated run reached that point.

There are those whose comments on "The Body" I've read on other boards who dismiss this episode as overblown or even out of joint for some of the Scubbie reactions and diaglogue, but usually those posters are young and truly blessed not to have yet gone through a close family loss. My mother died suddenly 30 years ago so I relate only too well. It is a tribute to Joss and his writing/directing skills that it can still touch me so deeply and evoke the original feelings of that long ago time. Everything, from the sensation that time and the world had frozen and become exterior to me to the fumbling for words to express the pain, everything in the episode was so true and realistic. (until the vampire at the end, but of course this is "Buffy" after all!) Hearing that Joss was inspired by his own mother's death makes the episode that much more touching.

Thanks, leftlady, for sharing this and for the feedback.

I can imagine that the ep would seem disjointed and maybe even boring to someone who just couldn't relate and was more interested in the "usual Buffy type show." It's about the effects of sudden, major trauma/shock - and it's incredibly faithful and unique depiction of that experience is what really, really, got to me.

[SpringSummers]

Patti said:

Spring, you know what your writing does to me on the 'regular' episodes...

my heart hurts ...for you, and for me...for all of us. I look back at the death of my mother...and this grief your analysis brought back shouldn't fit - she lived long and then when death came it was a "blessing" - because alzheimer's had taken so much from her. But there was still love. She could still love me. I believe in heaven. I believe she is alive - that her spirit is there.
But I miss her so much. I won't ever stop missing her, til I die too.
It was just a show about a blonde and some vampires...what a lie.

Thanks for the feedback, Patti, and for sharing about your mom.

As Tara says in the episode, "it's always sudden."

[Karen]

Joss is a master story teller because he allows us to see his deepest fears and hopes and dreams. Like you said, he shows us how we're all connected and not alone in life's struggle to accept the inevitable.

Thank you for saying in such a beautiful way what I've felt in my heart but haven't the words to express.

And thank so much for sharing a piece of what was a most difficult time in your life with us, Spring. It's what I love most about the S'cubies. When someone opens up and shows us a tiny part of the pain they've had in their lives, it bonds them to rest of us. That connectedness is so important and helps me at times get thru difficult days.

Your analysis was most excellent and should be put out there for the rest of the Buffyworld to see. Have you ever thought of submitting some of your work to some of the Buffy publications? Missbuffy has a piece in a book that is going to be released in December. Your writing, and Erins, Vlad's, Nan's, Sara's etc. is certainly more than worthy enough for print.

Beautiful review!

ETA: Is this the first episode you've reviewed that didn't have Spike in it?

[SpringSummers]

Karen said:

Joss is a master story teller because he allows us to see his deepest fears and hopes and dreams. Like you said, he shows us how we're all connected and not alone in life's struggle to accept the inevitable.

Thank you for saying in such a beautiful way what I've felt in my heart but haven't the words to express.

And thank so much for sharing a piece of what was a most difficult time in your life with us, Spring. It's what I love most about the S'cubies. When someone opens up and shows us a tiny part of the pain they've had in their lives, it bonds them to rest of us. That connectedness is so important and helps me at times get thru difficult days.

Your analysis was most excellent and should be put out there for the rest of the Buffyworld to see. Have you ever thought of submitting some of your work to some of the Buffy publications? Missbuffy has a piece in a book that is going to be released in December. Your writing, and Erins, Vlad's, Nan's, Sara's etc. is certainly more than worthy enough for print.

Beautiful review!

ETA: Is this the first episode you've reviewed that didn't have Spike in it?

Thanks for the feedback, Karen. Yep - this is a nice place to feel connected. And I appreciate you reaching out to me on this, with your comments. It was more of an "experience" than most, to do this analysis.

Maybe because I feel so connected here, I don't read any Buffy publications and really - I'm only peripherally aware there are such things. We don't have any major bookstores or newstands around here.

Missbuffy? Our MIA S'cubie? Glad to hear she is still interested and keeping in touch with the Buffy community.

No, this isn't the first analysis I've done of an ep without Spike in it. I did "The Zeppo" back in Season 3 - I really like the episode, and it was such a fave of Rob's . . . and it kept "Lovers Walk" from looking so lonely.

[Sue]

Truly amazing writing, Spring. Such a tough subject and yet you manage to write about it practically poetically:

Love didn’t stop Death, and luck didn’t stop it, and prayers and curses didn’t stop it.

It has no eyes to see your suffering, or ears to hear your begging, or mouth to ask your permission.

And this particular phrase really struck me from a Christian point of view (interpreting "Chosen One" differently, of course):

The powerlessness of all human beings (even The Chosen One), in the face of Death, is seen in many images throughout the episode.

Although I don't believe that Jesus couldn't have exercised power even over death, but He chose not to because it was to defeat Death that he came into the world. Yet he had to embrace it to defeat it. (Not trying to preach here, just explaining how this imagery touched me.)

---------------------

I really like the death/birth imagery too, also from a Christian point of view--seeing death of course as rebirth into another (better) life. It's no less hard on those left behind, but I love the birth analogy.

And when Death pushes us out into the real world for the first time, it, paradoxically, feels like a birth. It’s a fast forced trip down a long dark hallway....So for the second time in her life, Buffy is cut loose from her mother.

And you manage to end with such a positive message:

Death is final. We have no choice but to leave the dead behind in the past. They are forever physically inaccessible to us. They can not get back in their bodies, and we can not force them, with the power of our minds or anything else, back into those bodies. One way or another, Death ultimately wins those battles - every time. But the living can go on living. The living can accept love and comfort from others; the living can reestablish connections.

-------------------------------------

Finally, I would give you the same thanks you offered to Joss:

So, at some cost, he has offered me entry into a piece of himself. Thank you, Joss, for the invite. I accept with wonder and admiration for your most amazing, courageous (and ever-so-rare) feat: Turning everything into a story, without turning anything into lie.

Thank you,

Sue

[SpringSummers]

Sue said:

Truly amazing writing, Spring. Such a tough subject and yet you manage to write about it practically poetically:

And this particular phrase really struck me from a Christian point of view (interpreting "Chosen One" differently, of course):

Although I don't believe that Jesus couldn't have exercised power even over death, but He chose not to because it was to defeat Death that he came into the world. Yet he had to embrace it to defeat it. (Not trying to preach here, just explaining how this imagery touched me.)

I really like the death/birth imagery too, also from a Christian point of view--seeing death of course as rebirth into another (better) life. It's no less hard on those left behind, but I love the birth analogy.

And you manage to end with such a positive message:

Finally, I would give you the same thanks you offered to Joss:

Thank you,

Sue

Ah - you all are going to make me cry here, in a minute.

Thanks for your nice words, and to your "Thank you," I give a very sincere, "you're welcome."

[Spaced Out Looney]

I wanted to chime in and say that I really enjoyed your review. I didn't think you were because it didn't have Spike in it, but I'm glad you did and shared so openly how the episode affected you personally.

I particularly liked this part:

In Checkpoint we learned it was all about the power. Buffy tested the limits of her power and found them luxuriously lengthy. But in this episode we see just where that power ends.

SPIKE (to Buffy, in Fool For Love): “Death is your art. You make it with your hands, day after day.”

Now we learn that Buffy is not so much Death’s painter, as its paintbrush. The powerlessness of all human beings (even The Chosen One), in the face of Death, is seen in many images throughout the episode.

Ain't that the truth. Well done.

[SpringSummers]

Spaced said:

I wanted to chime in and say that I really enjoyed your review. I didn't think you were because it didn't have Spike in it, but I'm glad you did and shared so openly how the episode affected you personally.

I particularly liked this part:

Ain't that the truth. Well done.

Thanks for chiming in; I can use all the chiming I can get on this one.

My interest in BtVS is so much more than just my interest in Spike, though that particular characterization got to me the most.

You noticed my mention of Spike's "Death is your art" quote, but did you notice my other mention:

The fight is vulgar and ugly: very raw, crude and physical. It ends horribly, with Buffy applying enough pressure with a saw-tooth knife, to cut the vampire’s head off. But still, like Xander’s hand injury, the violent tussle with a naked vampire momentarily distracts Buffy, and seems to help her feel better – for a little while.

Don't know if I succeeded, but I meant this to be a fairly obvious reference to Buffy's upcoming M.O. - with Spike in Season 6. Her violent tussles help her feel better - for a little while (if you call five hours straight a little while, that is.)