The Weight of The World Discussion

[SpringSummers]

THE WEIGHT OF THE WORLD: He ain't heavy, he's my vampire

Let the discussion begin!

[William the Bloody]

SpringSummers said:

THE WEIGHT OF THE WORLD: He ain't heavy, he's my vampire

Let the discussion begin!

Fine, fine.. beat me to it why don't you!?

Yet another fantastic analysis. I am perpetually in awe.

Vlad

[Pixi]

See, you make me want to go out and watch the episode all over again though this is one of my least favorite. A terrific analysis as always. I think this is one of the first shows that showed how very, very well Spike and Xander play off each other. Buddy detective shows are pretty much a thing of the past so they could totally be brought back. Here - 2 guys who would sign and what a refreshing show it would be.

Great job! Wonderful read! Someday - when you finish all the episodes I plan to reread them all in a row. Course then I would probably have to become your minion. ;D

[SpringSummers]

William said:

Fine, fine.. beat me to it why don't you!?

Yet another fantastic analysis. I am perpetually in awe.

Vlad

Thank you, Vlad. I appreciate the feedback.

[SpringSummers]

Pixi said:

See, you make me want to go out and watch the episode all over again though this is one of my least favorite. A terrific analysis as always. I think this is one of the first shows that showed how very, very well Spike and Xander play off each other. Buddy detective shows are pretty much a thing of the past so they could totally be brought back. Here - 2 guys who would sign and what a refreshing show it would be.

Great job! Wonderful read! Someday - when you finish all the episodes I plan to reread them all in a row. Course then I would probably have to become your minion. ;D

Oh! A minion! I think I will use Harmony as my leadership role model. Begin keeping your eyes open for a nice tacky ceramic unicorn with which to express your admiration.

And in the meantime, thanks so much for providing feedback despite the non-minion status.

I should do that too, someday - I mean re-read all my analyses in a row, and see if I still think I'm sane.

[Nan-S'cubie Mascot]

Slip of the pinkie: you've titled this thread "The Weight of the Word." I double checked that it wasn't your title for the review, and it wasn't. Change it or not, whichever you please.

Great review and contrast beween the solidity--and pressure--of weight and the freedom and inconsequentiality of lightness. Good balance, well pinned down to the episode itself. I can see it now!

[SpringSummers]

Nan-S'cubie said:

Slip of the pinkie: you've titled this thread "The Weight of the Word." I double checked that it wasn't your title for the review, and it wasn't. Change it or not, whichever you please.

Thanks, Nan. Typing "word" for "world" is one of my "typo habits." I can rarely "see it" myself!

Great review and contrast beween the solidity--and pressure--of weight and the freedom and inconsequentiality of lightness. Good balance, well pinned down to the episode itself. I can see it now!

I really hadn't thought about the "weight" issues for Spike - or for Buffy and Spike - until they were presented here. Then it seemed so obvious, and it helped other images we've seen, and will see, for Spike, fall into place.

[Lynn]

Spring I am brand new and want to thank you very much for so much pleasure. You write so well and say so much. I found Buffy only in reruns last year, enjoyed it, but was stunned when Spike turned his head and first spoke to Drusilla in School Hard. I couldn't understand why ME was so prissy about the Spike/Buffy affair. I saw nothing shaming about it. Also, the Spike character is an amazing creation by the ME team and a charismatic and skillful actor. I have never seen anything like Spike EVER on television - he is so complex. If he appeared on any other series he would have won Emmys.

[Matthew]

Lynn said:

Spring I am brand new and want to thank you very much for so much pleasure. You write so well and say so much. I found Buffy only in reruns last year, enjoyed it, but was stunned when Spike turned his head and first spoke to Drusilla in School Hard. I couldn't understand why ME was so prissy about the Spike/Buffy affair. I saw nothing shaming about it. Also, the Spike character is an amazing creation by the ME team and a charismatic and skillful actor. I have never seen anything like Spike EVER on television - he is so complex. If he appeared on any other series he would have won Emmys.

Hi, Lynn! And welcome to the fold!! Thanks for joining us here in our discussion of all things Jossy, particularly William! And feel free to drop by our (rather fast-moving) main discussion thread and say hello! It's where we talk about just about everything, and we always welcome fresh blood!

Welcome to the S³!!!!

[SpringSummers]

Lynn said:

Spring I am brand new and want to thank you very much for so much pleasure. You write so well and say so much. I found Buffy only in reruns last year, enjoyed it, but was stunned when Spike turned his head and first spoke to Drusilla in School Hard. I couldn't understand why ME was so prissy about the Spike/Buffy affair. I saw nothing shaming about it. Also, the Spike character is an amazing creation by the ME team and a charismatic and skillful actor. I have never seen anything like Spike EVER on television - he is so complex. If he appeared on any other series he would have won Emmys.

Hi, Lynn. Let me join our gracious Matthew in a big welcome!

Thanks for taking the time to to let me know you are reading and enjoying.

Spike really is unique in the anals of TV, and wonderfully so. I am anxious to get into the meat of Season 6 - but am currently trying to get through "The Gift" which . . . it's a sad ep of course, and that is hard, but it's also a "Joss-written-ep" and the stuff that guy does with words . . . my head doth spin!

Please join us back here or on any of the other threads anytime.

[Lola m]

Very very unique metaphor for this analysis, Spring. Contrasting light and heavy, light and dark, Buffy and Spike - opposites and similar - complementary and contrasting.

Buffy tends toward a black and white view of the world, it is how she has reconciled her slayer duties. But the world outside slaying doesn't want to stay in neat boxes. And, as we will see in next season, even her slayerness is straining at the edges of the box she builds. As you point out here, too, that black and white view leads her to take all the responsibility on herself. And thus we have the superiority-inferiority complex she'll discuss with Holden the vampire in season 7. Your discussion of her desire, continually thwarted, to be "daddy's girl" is just so on the money.

In re-watching this ep, I kept noticing both the foreshadowing for season 6 (perhaps I am, like you, just champing at the bit to get to all the complexity and meat of that season, but I also believe much is pre-saged) and (as you point out) all the similarities and contrasts between Buffy and Spike.

Catatonic Buffy is a hint of season 6 Buffy in an psychiatric ward. Buffy "likes it rough", hinting at Spike and Buffy's violent sexual hijinks. Willow "takes charge", using magics (perhaps too powerful to be safe) to go enter Buffy's mind, for a good cause, but coming uncomfortably close to the kind of mental shenanagins she will play on Tara. Glory taunts Dawn with the idea that no one can "take it" - the emotions and trauma of being alive and Dawn replies that Buffy can, when in fact next season Buffy will many times not be able to "take it". Buffy struggles with taking care of Dawn and contemplates the seesaw between caring for her to the death (of Buffy) or "killing" her - giving us the hints of the Dawn and Buffy titanic struggles we've yet to see. We see previews even in funny bits - Glory's "get out, get out! get out!!" totally make me giggle. I wonder if Dawn was taking notes - 'cus she sure makes use of those lines later. ;D

You mention many ways in which Buffy and Spike are contrasted and compared - setting up the idea that they would make a formidable team - one that we will see in action in the next episode. The one that really strikes me, you refer to when you talk about how Spike is "far from frozen". Buffy tends to be "action girl" - always looking for what she can hit or defeat - yet here she is frozen, unable to move. Spike is constantly on the go - he needs to do something - he's "action boy".

Exellent analysis of an episode that is so rich and packed with meaning. The debate between the two mental Buffys alone is worthy of a lengthy discussion, so I admire the way you are able to condense and pick and stick to your themes. Brava!

Lola

How odd. It wasn't until this re-watch that it really sunk in to me that Buffy's vision or memory of Dawn coming home from the hospital, that is so important to this fugue state and her later actions, is a fake memory. Created by the monks. It's amazing how much I forget that element of Dawn's story. Shows how real, how quickly, she becomes to us.

[SpringSummers]

Lola said:

Very very unique metaphor for this analysis, Spring. Contrasting light and heavy, light and dark, Buffy and Spike - opposites and similar - complementary and contrasting.

Thanks.

Buffy tends toward a black and white view of the world, it is how she has reconciled her slayer duties. But the world outside slaying doesn't want to stay in neat boxes. And, as we will see in next season, even her slayerness is straining at the edges of the box she builds. As you point out here, too, that black and white view leads her to take all the responsibility on herself. And thus we have the superiority-inferiority complex she'll discuss with Holden the vampire in season 7. Your discussion of her desire, continually thwarted, to be "daddy's girl" is just so on the money.

Yep - that is just what I am trying to get at.

In re-watching this ep, I kept noticing both the foreshadowing for season 6 (perhaps I am, like you, just champing at the bit to get to all the complexity and meat of that season, but I also believe much is pre-saged) and (as you point out) all the similarities and contrasts between Buffy and Spike.

Oh - I agree - tons of S6 foreshadowing.

Catatonic Buffy is a hint of season 6 Buffy in an psychiatric ward.

Yes - and also, foreshadows Buffy's generally "half-dead" mode throughout S6.

Buffy "likes it rough", hinting at Spike and Buffy's violent sexual hijinks. Willow "takes charge", using magics (perhaps too powerful to be safe) to go enter Buffy's mind, for a good cause, but coming uncomfortably close to the kind of mental shenanagins she will play on Tara. Glory taunts Dawn with the idea that no one can "take it" - the emotions and trauma of being alive and Dawn replies that Buffy can, when in fact next season Buffy will many times not be able to "take it". Buffy struggles with taking care of Dawn and contemplates the seesaw between caring for her to the death (of Buffy) or "killing" her - giving us the hints of the Dawn and Buffy titanic struggles we've yet to see. We see previews even in funny bits - Glory's "get out, get out! get out!!" totally make me giggle. I wonder if Dawn was taking notes - 'cus she sure makes use of those lines later. ;D

Yes - I noticed and smiled at the "Get outs!" also.

And I definitely saw the "likes it rough" and Willow's dangerous method to "bring Buffy back" as S6 foreshadowing also.

Dawn is portrayed as having total faith in Buffy's heroism - and that makes sense for Dawn. She is the part of Buffy that is totally pure and believing.

You mention many ways in which Buffy and Spike are contrasted and compared - setting up the idea that they would make a formidable team - one that we will see in action in the next episode. The one that really strikes me, you refer to when you talk about how Spike is "far from frozen". Buffy tends to be "action girl" - always looking for what she can hit or defeat - yet here she is frozen, unable to move. Spike is constantly on the go - he needs to do something - he's "action boy".

Spike is . . . he's always doing what Buffy can't do (but part of her wants to do).

Exellent analysis of an episode that is so rich and packed with meaning. The debate between the two mental Buffys alone is worthy of a lengthy discussion, so I admire the way you are able to condense and pick and stick to your themes. Brava!

Yep, that whole "in Buffy's head" scene could really be picked apart - on its own, and in contrast to the "Ben/Glory" conversations.

I especially noted the "outdoors has come indoors" look to Joyce's grave in her bedroom - and it sure reminded me of Xander's Restless dream.

And then, how weak and helpless Dawn was, in Buffy's head.

Lots of stuff.

Lola

How odd. It wasn't until this re-watch that it really sunk in to me that Buffy's vision or memory of Dawn coming home from the hospital, that is so important to this fugue state and her later actions, is a fake memory. Created by the monks. It's amazing how much I forget that element of Dawn's story. Shows how real, how quickly, she becomes to us.

Yes - I did think about that - this is a fake memory - but really, when it comes right down to it, that is insignificant for Buffy. It's not insignificant in exploring the themes about reality, and what it is, and its significance as opposed to the significance of "what we believe" (be it true or not).

Thanks, as always, for your feedback, and for adding your excellent thoughts and insights to the thread.

[Onjel]

Spring, it's been too long since I have been able to really read your analyses.

I just read Weight of the World. (I know I tend to jump around in my readings) Marvelous, just marvelous.

Reading about Buffy's tendency to blame herself for everything that goes wrong makes me wonder why ME would make her exhibit so many co-dependent characteristics when she was put forth as a girl-power role model. Because she acts, very often, like a typical co-dependent when she insists that she can make it all turn out right.

I can see how one would come to believe this being in the position of the "Chosen One" and I wonder how much of the delusions of grandeur are actually co-dependence. I think her superiority complex is best exemplified by her behavior toward the counsel in Checkpoint. I think that is the name of the episode.

The fact of the matter is she never worked totally alone, except when she defeated the Master on the roof in S1. Since that point she worked with the Scoobies, to whom she gave well-deserved credit in Checkpoint. Where I am going with all this, is she may be chosen, but she is not One at all, and her continual self-blame appears co-dependent because of this fact.

Again, I loved the analysis and will be making a serious effort to read some more as soon as I can. Thanks for taking the time to write these.

[SpringSummers]

onjel said:

Spring, it's been too long since I have been able to really read your analyses.

I just read Weight of the World. (I know I tend to jump around in my readings) Marvelous, just marvelous.

Reading about Buffy's tendency to blame herself for everything that goes wrong makes me wonder why ME would make her exhibit so many co-dependent characteristics when she was put forth as a girl-power role model. Because she acts, very often, like a typical co-dependent when she insists that she can make it all turn out right.

I think Joss was trying to realistically portray the experience of growing up - of "becoming" - for a young girl with Buffy's emotional make-up and circumstances.

Actually, I see her realistic portrayal - as a young woman with weaknesses and flaws and far from ideal circumstances - as ADDING to the girl power theme. I could relate to her so much more than I could "perfect hero" types, and it was a much more powerful message, to me, that Buffy struggled and persevered and did her job and came-through despite her flaws, immaturities, etc.

She learned, she grew, she overcame - she became an adult by the end of Season 7, though we knew her journey was not over. But the ability to let Angel leave, to speak, for the first time, in a realistic way about their relationship, the specific mention of Spike being in her heart, the choice of Spike to stand by her side, telling him she loved him . . . and the coinciding ability to share her Slayer power . . . it was all a metaphor for Buffy leaving behind the ways and views of childhood, for her beginning to accept and integrate her whole self, and about her crossing the line into adulthood.

I can see how one would come to believe this being in the position of the "Chosen One" and I wonder how much of the delusions of grandeur are actually co-dependence. I think her superiority complex is best exemplified by her behavior toward the counsel in Checkpoint. I think that is the name of the episode.

I would disagree on that one. In Checkpoint, she's in the right about the way the Council is trying to manipulate her and keep her from understanding her central role.

I see The Yoko Factor as an obvious ep where her "superiority complex" comes into play, as she tells them all that she's the Chosen One, etc. Another obvious one is Selfless, with all her "I'm The Law," statements . . . I'm sure there are more.

The fact of the matter is she never worked totally alone, except when she defeated the Master on the roof in S1. Since that point she worked with the Scoobies, to whom she gave well-deserved credit in Checkpoint. Where I am going with all this, is she may be chosen, but she is not One at all, and her continual self-blame appears co-dependent because of this fact.

The episode name in Selfless speaks to this. Anya and Buffy are parallelled throughout the ep. And we find out how much of Buffy's sense of self and selfworth is tied up in being the Chosen One.

Again, I loved the analysis and will be making a serious effort to read some more as soon as I can. Thanks for taking the time to write these.

Thanks.

I very much want to get back to these, but life has been crazy for weeks and weeks. I will get back to them. In the meantime, read away! And let me know what you think!

[Onjel Checking In]

springsummers said:

I think Joss was trying to realistically portray the experience of growing up - of "becoming" - for a young girl with Buffy's emotional make-up and circumstances.

Actually, I see her realistic portrayal - as a young woman with weaknesses and flaws and far from ideal circumstances - as ADDING to the girl power theme. I could relate to her so much more than I could "perfect hero" types, and it was a much more powerful message, to me, that Buffy struggled and persevered and did her job and came-through despite her flaws, immaturities, etc.

She learned, she grew, she overcame - she became an adult by the end of Season 7, though we knew her journey was not over. But the ability to let Angel leave, to speak, for the first time, in a realistic way about their relationship, the specific mention of Spike being in her heart, the choice of Spike to stand by her side, telling him she loved him . . . and the coinciding ability to share her Slayer power . . . it was all a metaphor for Buffy leaving behind the ways and views of childhood, for her beginning to accept and integrate her whole self, and about her crossing the line into adulthood.

Reviewing this, I totally agree that it was a portrayal of the journey of growth into adulthood and agree that Buffy became a woman and an adult finally, by the end of S7. Not journey's end, as you rightly point out.

I guess what I find perplexing is the underlying fact that I see many girls are raised to be perfect soil for co-dependence. In Buffy's case, I would have to say that she out grew those tendencies and appeared to avoid becoming trapped in co-dependent mode, which was something I appreciate.

I would disagree on that one. In Checkpoint, she's in the right about the way the Council is trying to manipulate her and keep her from understanding her central role.

I see The Yoko Factor as an obvious ep where her "superiority complex" comes into play, as she tells them all that she's the Chosen One, etc. Another obvious one is Selfless, with all her "I'm The Law," statements . . . I'm sure there are more.

You are right. I had to go back and re-think this statement and now that you bring both Yoko Factor and Selfless up I can see that. I wasn't being critical of Buffy in Checkpoint though, that is one episode where I came very close to cheering out loud on more than one occasion, watching her confront Quentin and the council goobers.

The episode name in Selfless speaks to this. Anya and Buffy are parallelled throughout the ep. And we find out how much of Buffy's sense of self and selfworth is tied up in being the Chosen One.

Yep, I get this. It is clearly represented in this episode, though despite her rebellion against the position in the past, one gets the distinct feeling that she owns the Chosen One mantle by S7.

Thanks.

I very much want to get back to these, but life has been crazy for weeks and weeks. I will get back to them. In the meantime, read away! And let me know what you think!

Yep, RL, takes a bite out of me, too. There is plenty for me to read but I do look forward to S6 because in many ways it was and is very painful for me to watch.

Not that I am rushing or jumping the gun here, since it is a bit down the road, but Normal Again is one episode I am dying to discuss and will be looking forward to your analysis of that with great anticipation.