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Post by Queen E on Dec 20, 2005 16:48:21 GMT -5
Hi Erin. I'm good, but tired. How have you been? I have been wanting to come back to the S'Cubies for ages, but I have just been too busy. I hate being busy. Unfortunately, I am only here briefly until we go on holidays/vacation. I am looking forward having them. I think this year has to have been the worst of my life (and 2004 was pretty crap too!). Oh well, as my grandfather used to say: what can't be cured must be endured. I am enduring. #bighug# I am keeping a good thought that 2006 will show a marked improvement. Your grandfather was a wise man; but any time you need an ear or a shoulder, let me know...
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Post by Lola m on Dec 20, 2005 17:52:37 GMT -5
A long, long time ago I promised that I had one or two thoughts about Buffy and Spring's ananlysis. Alas I cannot find the relevant comment that inspired me, but I have thought that I would post my musings anyway. The 10 most common irrational thoughts that are linked to depression are sources of strength to a slayer. 10 common irrational thoughts 1) Black and white thinking: all vampires are evil. 2) Perfectionism: I should stop the forces of evil. 3) Name calling: Slayers are killers. 4) Mind reading: Slayers rely on their mind reading skills to stop evil plans from happening. 5) Overgeneralisation: 6) Personalising: Dawn was made from Buffy’s blood. Evil seeks Buffy. 7) Mistaking feelings for fact: Slayers rely on their feelings to detect evil. 8) Catastrophising: if I don’t stop this the world will end. 9) Fortune telling: I can’t win this and everyone will die. 10) Magnification/minimisation: Ummm . . . I think the real challenge for Buffy is to learn wisdom. In this scenario wisdom would be to learn to differentiate where her job finishes and where she starts. I know that Spring has not had a chance to start analysing season 6, but I did wonder whether "Bargaining" referred to the second last stage of grief. On other matters, Merry Christmas everybody! It is nearly 5am here. It was a scorcher here yesterday (41 degrees C) and today we are going the long way to Melbourne (i.e. by the Great Ocean Road). Needless to say I can't sleep: too anxious about all the house work I have to do before 9 am when we leave. I can't help noticing that it is not that cool even though it is supposed to be only 27 today. Hmmm. Sorry for the rambling. Happy holidays! #bighug# It's good to see your posts whenever you can get here, Kerrie! This is a very interesting comparison. Ever since the episodes The Weight of the World and Normal Again I've pondered the uniqueness of Buffy's situation as far as getting therapeutic psychiatric help goes. Who could she tell her full story to without being locked up (again)? Who would be qualified to help someone deal with being brought back from heaven or understand the burden of being a slayer? Now I add your list of characteristics that would be a problem to anyone else, but potentially a strength for Buffy. Makes me wonder if the Watchers ever had counselors on staff, available for slayers.
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Post by LadyDi on Dec 26, 2005 11:44:56 GMT -5
A long, long time ago I promised that I had one or two thoughts about Buffy and Spring's ananlysis. Alas I cannot find the relevant comment that inspired me, but I have thought that I would post my musings anyway. The 10 most common irrational thoughts that are linked to depression are sources of strength to a slayer. 10 common irrational thoughts 1) Black and white thinking: all vampires are evil. 2) Perfectionism: I should stop the forces of evil. 3) Name calling: Slayers are killers. 4) Mind reading: Slayers rely on their mind reading skills to stop evil plans from happening. 5) Overgeneralisation: 6) Personalising: Dawn was made from Buffy’s blood. Evil seeks Buffy. 7) Mistaking feelings for fact: Slayers rely on their feelings to detect evil. 8) Catastrophising: if I don’t stop this the world will end. 9) Fortune telling: I can’t win this and everyone will die. 10) Magnification/minimisation: Ummm . . . I think the real challenge for Buffy is to learn wisdom. In this scenario wisdom would be to learn to differentiate where her job finishes and where she starts. I know that Spring has not had a chance to start analysing season 6, but I did wonder whether "Bargaining" referred to the second last stage of grief. On other matters, Merry Christmas everybody! It is nearly 5am here. It was a scorcher here yesterday (41 degrees C) and today we are going the long way to Melbourne (i.e. by the Great Ocean Road). Needless to say I can't sleep: too anxious about all the house work I have to do before 9 am when we leave. I can't help noticing that it is not that cool even though it is supposed to be only 27 today. Hmmm. Sorry for the rambling. Happy holidays! It's good to see your posts whenever you can get here, Kerrie! This is a very interesting comparison. Ever since the episodes The Weight of the World and Normal Again I've pondered the uniqueness of Buffy's situation as far as getting therapeutic psychiatric help goes. Who could she tell her full story to without being locked up (again)? Who would be qualified to help someone deal with being brought back from heaven or understand the burden of being a slayer? Now I add your list of characteristics that would be a problem to anyone else, but potentially a strength for Buffy. Makes me wonder if the Watchers ever had counselors on staff, available for slayers. This is partly why Buffy's so dependent on Spike in s6 (IMO). His song in OMWF tells us she's been confiding in him. Who else could come so close to understanding her? But according to ME, Buffy's dependence on Spike is a bad thing. She's supposed to be a strong, independent woman, after all. It gets lost in their dependency/addiction/abuse metaphorical mish-mash. On a happier note, it is good to 'hear' from you, Kerrie. Hope things get better for you in the coming year.
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Post by rosslyn on Dec 29, 2005 10:09:35 GMT -5
"But according to ME, Buffy's dependence on Spike is a bad thing."
Honest to God, we got so many mixed messages during (especially) Season 6 on whether Spike was good or bad for Buffy that I have permanent whiplash. Fury, Espenson and Noxon, in particular, send confusing and mixed messages. In a way, it was good that he got a soul - beyond any intrinsic value of same - if only to settle the issue of whether Spike could be a permanent, positive presence in Buffy's life as a friend a/o lover a/o comrade in battle. To me, the great and unique thing about unsouled Spike was that, provided that he was in love with a woman, he'd happily take 100 stakes to the heart for her. That never needed to be sorted out, and in that sense the souling was superfluous and even anti-climatic.
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Post by SpringSummers on Dec 29, 2005 11:49:13 GMT -5
"But according to ME, Buffy's dependence on Spike is a bad thing." Honest to God, we got so many mixed messages during (especially) Season 6 on whether Spike was good or bad for Buffy that I have permanent whiplash. Fury, Espenson and Noxon, in particular, send confusing and mixed messages. In a way, it was good that he got a soul - beyond any intrinsic value of same - if only to settle the issue of whether Spike could be a permanent, positive presence in Buffy's life as a friend a/o lover a/o comrade in battle. To me, the great and unique thing about unsouled Spike was that, provided that he was in love with a woman, he'd happily take 100 stakes to the heart for her. That never needed to be sorted out, and in that sense the souling was superfluous and even anti-climatic. I think the reason we got the messages "Spike is good for Buffy," AND "Spike is bad for Buffy," is because he was both. I mean, how many things in life, especially something as complex as that relationship, are going to be exclusively good or bad for you? It's confusing, and mixed and hard to sort out. And that's what we saw. Spike didn't need the soul to know how to be obsessively devoted to a woman, true - he did need it though, for lots of other things - among them, he needed it to truly learn to love fully.
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Post by Lynn on Jan 2, 2006 9:07:01 GMT -5
All relationships have their good and bad parts. I thought ME was prissy about Buffy and Spike. I was glad for her that she had him in her life in all his complexities, glad that she had sex that was great and had him to watch her back. And I am glad for me that some great fanfic has given him back to her. I still think Spike is one of the most imaginative creations ever written and JM brought him to wonderful unlife.
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Post by leftylady on Jan 2, 2006 15:41:49 GMT -5
All relationships have their good and bad parts. I thought ME was prissy about Buffy and Spike. I was glad for her that she had him in her life in all his complexities, glad that she had sex that was great and had him to watch her back. And I am glad for me that some great fanfic has given him back to her. I still think Spike is one of the most imaginative creations ever written and JM brought him to wonderful unlife.amen
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Post by leftylady on Jan 2, 2006 15:56:51 GMT -5
"But according to ME, Buffy's dependence on Spike is a bad thing." Honest to God, we got so many mixed messages during (especially) Season 6 on whether Spike was good or bad for Buffy that I have permanent whiplash. Fury, Espenson and Noxon, in particular, send confusing and mixed messages. In a way, it was good that he got a soul - beyond any intrinsic value of same - if only to settle the issue of whether Spike could be a permanent, positive presence in Buffy's life as a friend a/o lover a/o comrade in battle. To me, the great and unique thing about unsouled Spike was that, provided that he was in love with a woman, he'd happily take 100 stakes to the heart for her. That never needed to be sorted out, and in that sense the souling was superfluous and even anti-climatic. I'd been waiting for reviews of Season 6 to make comments on my views on the mixed messages / characterizations. (Hint, Spring, hint!....) Season 6 was very hard to watch. But it is easy to forget it came hard on the heels of 9/11. The angst on screen was nothing compared to real life angst and most of us wanted something cathartic for the RL pain, not something that caused us fictional-empathy pain. Seeing the season now, one episode after another, and knowing where Spike ended on BtVS (I'll omit AtS as almost another 'verse) makes it easier to interpret the mixed portrayals as a desperation in love gone wrong that lead to great leaps of character growth. Whether the writers intended to put this on the screen for us or not is another matter. No matter what they argued about in the writers' room, what we see, actually see, overrules for me whatever they thought they were saying. There are still some things I still hate about Season 6, but in general I now find it one of my favorites for the great moving episodes, most of which relate to Spike. Hey, I'm prejudiced I know, but that's why we're here at S3! Lesser moments in the Season get pushed aside in my memory.
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Post by SpringSummers on Jan 3, 2006 9:01:30 GMT -5
Interesting discussion, S'cubes.
And speaking of Season 6, this is an update, especially for Fotada, on my progress toward the next analysis:
It's almost done! I had more interruptions than I expected this weekend, and the Ohio State performance in the Fiesta Bowl was much more distracting than I thought it would be (Troy Smith, the qb . . . hotter than a firecracker!!), but I rewatched Bargaining Part 1, and watched it with the commentary (a useless exercise; don't waste your time - this has got to be the worst commentary I've ever heard - boring, with no interesting "back stage" stories and no insights). Anyhow . . . progress was made, and I intend to have it done soon.
I love me some Season 6, because . . . Spike! Sexy Spike! Nekkid Spike! Angsty Spike! Dangerous Spike! Madly-in-love Spike! Obsessed Spike! Snarky Spike! Cocky Spike! Insecure Spike! Good Spike! Evil Spike! In other words: Spike!
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Post by Lynn on Jan 3, 2006 9:18:11 GMT -5
Lefty Lady, thanks for your comments: really hit home for me. I know I am feeling pain about real life events when fiction I love makes me cry. And Spring, I am really looking forward to your next reviews. I was afraid you were too caught up in other work to ever do them.
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Post by leftylady on Jan 3, 2006 12:41:43 GMT -5
Interesting discussion, S'cubes. And speaking of Season 6, this is an update, especially for Fotada, on my progress toward the next analysis: It's almost done! I had more interruptions than I expected this weekend, and the Ohio State performance in the Fiesta Bowl was much more distracting than I thought it would be (Troy Smith, the qb . . . hotter than a firecracker!!), but I rewatched Bargaining Part 1, and watched it with the commentary (a useless exercise; don't waste your time - this has got to be the worst commentary I've ever heard - boring, with no interesting "back stage" stories and no insights). Anyhow . . . progress was made, and I intend to have it done soon. I love me some Season 6, because . . . Spike! Sexy Spike! Nekkid Spike! Angsty Spike! Dangerous Spike! Madly-in-love Spike! Obsessed Spike! Snarky Spike! Cocky Spike! Insecure Spike! Good Spike! Evil Spike! In other words: Spike! Yeah, Season 6 Reviews!!!! Spring, you are to be commended for your concentration. Most of the Buckeye State had a "do not disturb" sign out yesterday. It is rumored that even the other Hellmouth in Cleveland was inactive during the game, or at least it was during the Sunday Browns game!!!
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Post by LadyDi on Jan 4, 2006 12:25:23 GMT -5
Interesting discussion, S'cubes. And speaking of Season 6, this is an update, especially for Fotada, on my progress toward the next analysis: It's almost done! I had more interruptions than I expected this weekend, and the Ohio State performance in the Fiesta Bowl was much more distracting than I thought it would be (Troy Smith, the qb . . . hotter than a firecracker!!), but I rewatched Bargaining Part 1, and watched it with the commentary (a useless exercise; don't waste your time - this has got to be the worst commentary I've ever heard - boring, with no interesting "back stage" stories and no insights). Anyhow . . . progress was made, and I intend to have it done soon. I love me some Season 6, because . . . Spike! Sexy Spike! Nekkid Spike! Angsty Spike! Dangerous Spike! Madly-in-love Spike! Obsessed Spike! Snarky Spike! Cocky Spike! Insecure Spike! Good Spike! Evil Spike! In other words: Spike! Obviously you haven't listened to the commentary for Hell's Bells yet. Why the even bothered, I have no idea. I'm amazed they didn't have commentary for Dead Things a/o Seeing Red, considering the importance of the events in these eps. Read the following in an article in the L.A. Times. It struck me as appropriate to our discussions here. "The danger of disguising your message is sometimes the audience doesn't react the way the artist expects."
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Post by Kerrie on Jan 7, 2006 6:15:25 GMT -5
Makes me wonder if the Watchers ever had counselors on staff, available for slayers. The Watchers Council provide counseling to their Slayers?! I would like to see that! I rather suspect that it would be part of their salary package. Oh wait . . .I forgot they don't get paid. . . I won't dwell on the probable unfairess of the Watcher's treatment of Slayers. It is all conjecture. However, whilst I am conjecturing, I will say that I don't think JW was a big believer in counselling. As I think I said in a post at the start of Spring's analysis of season 5, I think JW was more into the Rational Emotive Therapy which is best summed up by the expression: "Get over it!" I just never get the impression JW was particularly sympathetic to people dropping their bundles. Perhaps that is why the message about Buffy and Spike was so mixed: Spike sympathised with Buffy instead of telling her to get over it.
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Post by Michelle on Jan 7, 2006 13:24:17 GMT -5
Interesting discussion, S'cubes. And speaking of Season 6, this is an update, especially for Fotada, on my progress toward the next analysis: It's almost done! I had more interruptions than I expected this weekend, and the Ohio State performance in the Fiesta Bowl was much more distracting than I thought it would be (Troy Smith, the qb . . . hotter than a firecracker!!), but I rewatched Bargaining Part 1, and watched it with the commentary (a useless exercise; don't waste your time - this has got to be the worst commentary I've ever heard - boring, with no interesting "back stage" stories and no insights). Anyhow . . . progress was made, and I intend to have it done soon. I love me some Season 6, because . . . Spike! Sexy Spike! Nekkid Spike! Angsty Spike! Dangerous Spike! Madly-in-love Spike! Obsessed Spike! Snarky Spike! Cocky Spike! Insecure Spike! Good Spike! Evil Spike! In other words: Spike! OOOOOHHHH!!! This is very good news, Spring! Thank you, thank you, thank you. It's probably not easy to watch the first ep so soon after the holidays, since it's pretty dour. I really appreciate you doing this!! Luckily there's lots of Spike incarnations to gawk at. Can't wait to read your analysis.
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Post by Karen on Jan 7, 2006 16:35:26 GMT -5
Makes me wonder if the Watchers ever had counselors on staff, available for slayers. The Watchers Council provide counseling to their Slayers?! I would like to see that! I rather suspect that it would be part of their salary package. Oh wait . . .I forgot they don't get paid. . . I won't dwell on the probable unfairess of the Watcher's treatment of Slayers. It is all conjecture. However, whilst I am conjecturing, I will say that I don't think JW was a big believer in counselling. As I think I said in a post at the start of Spring's analysis of season 5, I think JW was more into the Rational Emotive Therapy which is best summed up by the expression: "Get over it!" I just never get the impression JW was particularly sympathetic to people dropping their bundles. Perhaps that is why the message about Buffy and Spike was so mixed: Spike sympathised with Buffy instead of telling her to get over it. I think you're right. JW doesn't have much sympathy for whiners, but on the other hand, he did have Willow go off to England to heal. It's hard for any of us to know when a person is just being a 'whiner' and when they have serious issues to deal with. Maybe that's what JW was trying to get across. Hmmm. #wavey# Hi Kerrie!
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