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Post by LadyDi on Jan 7, 2006 20:45:23 GMT -5
The Watchers Council provide counseling to their Slayers?! I would like to see that! I rather suspect that it would be part of their salary package. Oh wait . . .I forgot they don't get paid. . .   I won't dwell on the probable unfairess of the Watcher's treatment of Slayers. It is all conjecture. However, whilst I am conjecturing, I will say that I don't think JW was a big believer in counselling. As I think I said in a post at the start of Spring's analysis of season 5, I think JW was more into the Rational Emotive Therapy which is best summed up by the expression: "Get over it!" I just never get the impression JW was particularly sympathetic to people dropping their bundles. Perhaps that is why the message about Buffy and Spike was so mixed: Spike sympathised with Buffy instead of telling her to get over it. I think you're right. JW doesn't have much sympathy for whiners, but on the other hand, he did have Willow go off to England to heal. It's hard for any of us to know when a person is just being a 'whiner' and when they have serious issues to deal with. Maybe that's what JW was trying to get across. Hmmm.  Hi Kerrie! Personally, I think the 'Get Over It' thing is a load of cr*p. It's too glib, too facile. Joss is being slightly hypocritical (IMO) for telling us not to get hung up on past events, when he's admitted to idealizing childhood as an age of metaphors. To him, growing up means losing your metaphors, and that's what we saw in s6. Before that, doing magick or drinking blood were metaphors for sex, but then the characters were actually having sex. So, according to this (Insane Troll) Logic, metaphorical sex is better than the real thing.  |
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Post by Kerrie on Jan 9, 2006 1:07:07 GMT -5
I admit that it does sound rather insane, but . . . if you interpret metaphores to mean things that arent real (i.e. fantasies) then it sounds like JW is saying that fantasy sex is better than real sex and it doesn't sound quite so insane. I should hasten to add that fantasy sex being better than real sex has never been my experience. Maybe we are supposed to dwell on the illusion versus the reality of sex (i.e. it is not always romantic, safe and pleasant). Just a thought.
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Post by rosslyn on Jan 17, 2006 20:50:16 GMT -5
"Perhaps that is why the message about Buffy and Spike was so mixed: Spike sympathised with Buffy instead of telling her to get over it."
Not to mention that Spike himself was still lugging around a ton of issues from his own past - mommy issues, failed poet issues, Dru issues, Angel issues, etc. Plus, the fact that Spike and Buffy were supernatural types gave them a license to be both "above" and "below" the rest of us to my way of thinking.
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Post by Onjel on Jan 17, 2006 22:13:49 GMT -5
"Perhaps that is why the message about Buffy and Spike was so mixed: Spike sympathised with Buffy instead of telling her to get over it." Not to mention that Spike himself was still lugging around a ton of issues from his own past - mommy issues, failed poet issues, Dru issues, Angel issues, etc. Plus, the fact that Spike and Buffy were supernatural types gave them a license to be both "above" and "below" the rest of us to my way of thinking. Hi there!  Nice to see you here! Come play on the main thread too! ;D |
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Post by LadyDi on Jan 18, 2006 10:43:30 GMT -5
I admit that it does sound rather insane, but . . . if you interpret metaphores to mean things that arent real (i.e. fantasies) then it sounds like JW is saying that fantasy sex is better than real sex and it doesn't sound quite so insane. I should hasten to add that fantasy sex being better than real sex has never been my experience. Maybe we are supposed to dwell on the illusion versus the reality of sex (i.e. it is not always romantic, safe and pleasant). Just a thought. Have come to the conclusion that the most (seemingly) llogical stuff that happens in the Jossverse makes more sense if looked at metaphorically. Joss is almost forcing us to change our everyday perceptions. Did more research into REBT after it came up in discussion. Some of it makes sense in relation to what we saw in canon, but one of the things the proponenents consider very destructive is people rating. In REBT, actions are good or bad, not people. Just because someone does bad things, doesn't make him/her a bad person. One of the sites even defended Hitler on this logic! But Joss said after AtS that Spike had to keep fighting the good fight to prove himself a good man. Seems to me this wouldn't be his philosophy if he was really into REBT. |
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Post by baunger1 on May 6, 2010 6:36:07 GMT -5
I never connected the bleeding with becoming fertile, but it seems so clear...only after you point it out, of course.
This episode is so sad and so beautiful from start to finish. The scene between Buffy and Spike at Buffy's house is on of my very favorite moments in the entire series. As you point out, JM's performance in this scene is truly extraordinary. I'm just knocked out by how he shows every fleeting emotion that Spike is experiencing with facial expression and movement. I watch this scene over and over and just can't believe what I'm seeing.
It's so touching (and of course forehadow-y) that Buffy ultimately turns to Spike to to protect Dawn, the thing most precious to her, the part of herself ("Dawn is me") that she loves best. Much like her own sacrifice at the end, Buffy is both receiving and giving a gift -- getting Spike's needed help, and thereby treating him like a man.
Also interesting that here, in crisis, Spike is at his self-sacrificing, heroic best, whereas Giles, in killing Ben in a particularly personal and brutal way, is arguably at his worst. Light and dark in everyone, as Buffy will continue to learn.
I also have to say that JM is at his most beautiful here. Heartbreakingly beautiful. He glows.
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Post by SpringSummers on May 6, 2010 19:42:56 GMT -5
I never connected the bleeding with becoming fertile, but it seems so clear...only after you point it out, of course. This episode is so sad and so beautiful from start to finish. The scene between Buffy and Spike at Buffy's house is on of my very favorite moments in the entire series. As you point out, JM's performance in this scene is truly extraordinary. I'm just knocked out by how he shows every fleeting emotion that Spike is experiencing with facial expression and movement. I watch this scene over and over and just can't believe what I'm seeing. I know. JM is absolutely amazing in that scene. It's mesmerizing. I never thought of it that way, but so true. Yes, Giles takes a trip to the dark side. It's self-sacrifice as well, since he does it so that Buffy doesn't have to, but it's on the opposite end of the light/dark spectrum. Buffy does have a hard road ahead, when it comes to accepting what you are saying here: Light and dark in everyone. She doesn't want to believe it about Angel in particular, but mostly, she doesn't want to believe it about herself. But she will. Well said. |
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Post by otherpaul on Sept 6, 2010 12:31:43 GMT -5
Spring Summers--
I just finished reading your analysis of "the Gift" (I'm rationing them, there aren't that many left). You are really brilliant: every time I read one of your essays I find things that I would never have thought of by myself. Don't mean to be pushy, but is there some way we could bribe you to finish seasons 6 and 7?
Otherpaul
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