|
Post by Spaced Out Looney on Mar 30, 2009 15:46:12 GMT -5
I'm wondering if the personality he wanted was the same one or a different one. What was the name of who she was playing in the first ep? I don't know. I'll let you know if I figure it out. I was talking about her "intake interview" with Adelle, and the parallels with the one Adelle has with Sam. But I do think that tied-to-the-bed-motorcycle-guy is in line for a big refund. Yeah, I wonder how long he was stuck like that. *snorfle*
|
|
|
Post by Spaced Out Looney on Mar 30, 2009 15:47:44 GMT -5
Rossum? ROSSUM!?! As in Rossum's Universal Robots? From R.U.R., the 1921 Czech language play by Karel Čapek, which gave us the word "Robot"? Nice reference, Joss. And this week, Jane Espenson, Consulting Producer? The corpse of BSG isn't even cold yet and the Queen of Pain is back! This show gets more fun every time I watch it. ;D *Rich goes to his happy place* Ooh! That's nice.
|
|
|
Post by Spaced Out Looney on Mar 30, 2009 15:48:39 GMT -5
Perhaps all the dolls are people who crossed Rossum or discovered some dirt on them? That's pretty much what I'm thinking. Clever idea to turn your enemies into your allies. Killing two birds with one stone.
|
|
|
Post by Spaced Out Looney on Mar 30, 2009 15:50:19 GMT -5
Discovered new thing about Caroline with this episode. She believed both humans AND animals have souls. Maybe her belief was as simple as the Buddhist "If it flinches, it has a soul", maybe she was an Animist and thought everything has a soul. And now, of course, the big question is does Caroline have a soul? Does anything? Is there even such a thing as a soul? Also, I'm starting a Dollhouse drinking game. The rules are simple. You drink every time Topher says "That shouldn't have happened."Word. I'll bring the tequila.
|
|
|
Post by Spaced Out Looney on Mar 30, 2009 15:51:02 GMT -5
Yep. Eventually every sci fi show has to do a Naked Time episode. Caroline Farrell. Well, there's one easy theory mostly knocked out of the way. If not a relative, my theory is Adelle may have been one of her professors in college. I'm not sure I buy Adelle as a professor. Not yet at least.
|
|
|
Post by Spaced Out Looney on Mar 30, 2009 15:51:41 GMT -5
A few years ago . . . Caroline was all political. OMG, they're using neighbor woman (is her name Mellie? sp?) as a lab rat to see what the drug does? Oy!! Rossum Corporation is why they exist (money, yes? Do they own the Dollhouse? The Dollhouses?). And she believes in the work we're funding (so, the Dollhouses pay for some other "important" something?). Don't have any more X factors. Oh that is just asking for trouble. Ooooh. Now is Boyd gonna go nuts too? Is the drug spread thru contact? She's supposed to save "him". So, she's remembering actual event from her life, yes? Maybe the trouble she was in that meant they grabbed her later? She knows how to get in and that "freaks her out". Heh! Also, I find it interesting how sure the guy was that they were being experimented on - he was expecting it. Hmmmmm. Is he like Caroline was before she was memory-wiped? "Do you want to have a treatment." "No." (First, that's a wow moment - that she did not repsond appropriately to programming!)"Hey. Wow. Did not maintain control of that situation." (Heee! Boyd is funny when he's stoned.) Here is my question. It's become very apparent that the Actives' memories are not getting fully wiped, ergo, the whole premise of the Dollhouse is pretty much not working. But Joss has said he has a five year plan, yet we're only in episode 7 and we already know that things are falling apart, the dolls are glitching, and they often can't complete their mission/fantasy/whathaveyou. I guess this is why I'm not a show runner and Joss is, but I can't see how this could continue on for years. Anyone have thoughts on that? That's exactly what I've been wondering.
|
|
|
Post by Spaced Out Looney on Mar 30, 2009 16:05:00 GMT -5
Before I read what everyone else wrote: I actually like Carolyn less now that I know she was an animal-rights activist of that sort. I mean, yes, she stumbled across way more than animal experimentation, but I really dislike the sort of person who thinks it's kosher to break into research labs in order to expose the research/set the animals free. Just a knee-jerk reaction...in my line of work, we're actively frightened of those people. Very rarely, they blow stuff up or burn stuff down. This was a big concern at NASA-Ames too. I feel like we could have a very lengthy discussion about this on the open topics thread, because it's a very complex and sensitive issue. I will say that during that scene in the beginning where Caroline is talking about the poor animals, I kept thinking about that she had no idea that what she was going to get roped into was far far worse.
|
|
|
Post by Spaced Out Looney on Mar 30, 2009 19:19:34 GMT -5
You know, we didn't get to see Ballard acting all trippy. I feel gypped. We could have at least had him reenact that Sulu fencing scene.
|
|
|
Post by Michelle on Mar 30, 2009 19:28:40 GMT -5
Before I read what everyone else wrote: I actually like Carolyn less now that I know she was an animal-rights activist of that sort. I mean, yes, she stumbled across way more than animal experimentation, but I really dislike the sort of person who thinks it's kosher to break into research labs in order to expose the research/set the animals free. Just a knee-jerk reaction...in my line of work, we're actively frightened of those people. Very rarely, they blow stuff up or burn stuff down. This was a big concern at NASA-Ames too. I feel like we could have a very lengthy discussion about this on the open topics thread, because it's a very complex and sensitive issue. I will say that during that scene in the beginning where Caroline is talking about the poor animals, I kept thinking about that she had no idea that what she was going to get roped into was far far worse. As someone who works with college students every day, I vot to cut Carolyn some slack. That is often an age when people are passionate about their beliefs, even when (especially when?) they don't have all the facts. Being a college student doesn't necessarily mean a mature, reasoned academic. We don't know what Carolyn's major was, I don't think, so we don't know how much information she really had. She's idealistic and reactionary, but that doesn't necessary make her unlikable.
|
|
|
Post by Rachael on Mar 30, 2009 20:33:18 GMT -5
This was a big concern at NASA-Ames too. I feel like we could have a very lengthy discussion about this on the open topics thread, because it's a very complex and sensitive issue. I will say that during that scene in the beginning where Caroline is talking about the poor animals, I kept thinking about that she had no idea that what she was going to get roped into was far far worse. As someone who works with college students every day, I vot to cut Carolyn some slack. That is often an age when people are passionate about their beliefs, even when (especially when?) they don't have all the facts. Being a college student doesn't necessarily mean a mature, reasoned academic. We don't know what Carolyn's major was, I don't think, so we don't know how much information she really had. She's idealistic and reactionary, but that doesn't necessary make her unlikable. As someone who's worked on a campus where the genetic engineering lab got bombed and who has to watch who might go into her building with her because it houses a mouse facility, it's enough to make me think a lot less of her judgement. It's one thing to protest animal research, and quite another to break in to a laboratory...and then actively consider letting the animals loose. On a lighter note, when she started talking about letting them out, I was all, "Have you never seen Twelve Monkeys?"
|
|
|
Post by artemis on Apr 1, 2009 13:56:17 GMT -5
i thought it was classic narcissism for adelle to say that echo went to the university to allow caroline to punish adelle, rather than it being echo/caroline trying to right themselves - trying to regain their lost identity, etc.
i found that finally getting significant caroline backstory made her fate seem all the more tragic, but then, it seems all the Actives have tragic or otherwise bad pasts that led them there. i found it curious that it seemed the ones who were recently (depicted on the show as being - who knows what happened offscreen) traumatized as Actives flashed back to that trauma, whereas other Actives flashed back to traumas that happened to their pre-Active selves. i wonder what victor's backstory is...
|
|
|
Post by artemis on Apr 1, 2009 14:02:11 GMT -5
"Do you want to have a treatment." "No." (First, that's a wow moment - that she did not repsond appropriately to programming!) echo seems to do that a lot. ;D i loved that! ;D i love boyd. i hope someday we get a boyd backstory episode! he certainly doesn't seem to like the dollhouse much (as many have noted) which makes me wonder how he ended up there. with the doctor, perhaps over her time there she has come to distrust them - but he seemed to feel that way from the beginning.
|
|
|
Post by artemis on Apr 1, 2009 14:06:23 GMT -5
So the Dollhouse is paid for or financed by the Rossum corporation. Or is it vice versa? I can't quite tell what they're saying. At first I thought it was Rossum paying for the Dollhouse, but . . . from what the head woman was saying to Topher, could it be the opposite? That is a disturbing idea my friend. And now I'm wondering if you're right . . . the way i personally interpreted it is that the Dollhouse gets gobs of money from insanely wealthy powerful people (directly through their time with the Actives, and as has been speculated, possibly also indirectly through a side line in blackmail), which is poured into Rossum to fund their R&D department, which then uses the Actives as a means to test some of their memory-related drugs. so to me, it seems like a symbiotic relationship.
|
|
|
Post by KMInfinity on Apr 1, 2009 15:14:22 GMT -5
Here is my question. It's become very apparent that the Actives' memories are not getting fully wiped, ergo, the whole premise of the Dollhouse is pretty much not working. But Joss has said he has a five year plan, yet we're only in episode 7 and we already know that things are falling apart, the dolls are glitching, and they often can't complete their mission/fantasy/whathaveyou. I guess this is why I'm not a show runner and Joss is, but I can't see how this could continue on for years. Anyone have thoughts on that? That's exactly what I've been wondering. One twist I've read (as pure spec - I am NOT spoiled) is that it would fit the W&H pattern and allow Angel season 6 and 7* themes to be explored if some of the Actives and/or Ballard/Boyd to be forced into some horrible position of "needing" to take over the Dollhouse and keep it running... Not sure what I personally think. One bit of backstory I'd like to know is just how long have the Dollhouses been operating? If it's new (weeks? months?) then this could be a shakedown period. If it's been in operation for a year or more then yeah, how the hell have they survived detection? I do not count the abysmal comic books as canon. Even if Joss does. And even if he does, he could be saving some of those themes and plans from Angel and have given the comic book folks a whole 'nother new plotline.
|
|
|
Post by rich on Apr 1, 2009 22:38:26 GMT -5
Before I read what everyone else wrote: I actually like Carolyn less now that I know she was an animal-rights activist of that sort. I mean, yes, she stumbled across way more than animal experimentation, but I really dislike the sort of person who thinks it's kosher to break into research labs in order to expose the research/set the animals free. Just a knee-jerk reaction...in my line of work, we're actively frightened of those people. Very rarely, they blow stuff up or burn stuff down. No matter how much I love dogs, ever since I read the history of the discovery of insulin (and the lives of the diabetics who were trying to hang on prior to its discovery) I've been quite conflicted.
And the dogs had to be killed to study their pancreases, not just "experimented on."
But, you know.....................insulin.
There has got to be some kind of balance. Was talking to a research scientist at Vandy recently and she said she feels for young people entering the field who can have grants and research delayed for weeks or months by the paperwork necessary. Of course -- research on baby fetuses' brains --- not so good. Maybe Adelle was a professor of Caroline's? Martin Picard, the gentleman who's avatar I'm sporting these days, calls it "the passage from life to death, then back again towards life."
|
|