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Post by William the Bloody on Feb 4, 2004 10:34:45 GMT -5
Let the discussion begin.
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Post by Laura on Feb 4, 2004 11:02:46 GMT -5
Oh, my God. You are just incredible.
However did you get the idea to connect Passion with The Replacement? It seems completely unrelated -- and yet, having gone through your analysis, it's so obvious!
Really -- hats off to Spring for this astounding analysis -- and hats off to ME, for giving us both eps!
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 4, 2004 11:21:13 GMT -5
Oh, my God. You are just incredible.
However did you get the idea to connect Passion with The Replacement? It seems completely unrelated -- and yet, having gone through your analysis, it's so obvious!
Really -- hats off to Spring for this astounding analysis -- and hats off to ME, for giving us both eps! Thanks so much, Laura, for telling me how much you liked the analysis. I never know quite where I'm going with the analyses when I start out. I watch the ep, then I read the script looking for whatever strikes me, then I repeat that process at least once more. I watched this ep three times and combed the transcript throughout. I kept getting this "that rings a bell" feeling - by Giles swinging that wooden statue, by the Snoopy Dance, by the mention of a rabbit's foot, by the mention of The Factory and the "told you so" . . . it all sounded so familiar. I went to my Season 2 transcripts (which I have all together in a pdf file) and searched on some of the words, and found out that all those ring-a-bell references were in the same episode: Passion. So I knew that was no coincidence - the similarities were deliberate and a connection was deliberately being made. Since The Replacement features Buffy's inability to love Riley, the connection started to come clear to me.
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Post by Nan-S'cubie Mascot on Feb 4, 2004 13:20:01 GMT -5
As usual, Spring, I'm struck speechless. The analysis has such pellucid clarity and simplicity, yet the content is intuitive and insightful in the extreme. OK, not quite speechless, but you know how I can run on....
Another superb analysis. Thank you.
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 5, 2004 8:22:40 GMT -5
As usual, Spring, I'm struck speechless. The analysis has such pellucid clarity and simplicity, yet the content is intuitive and insightful in the extreme. OK, not quite speechless, but you know how I can run on.... Another superb analysis. Thank you. Thanks, Nan. Feedback like yours and Laura's really helps me keep trudging along.
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Post by Cal on Feb 5, 2004 13:01:09 GMT -5
Excellent analysis, Spring! These analyses really add to my enjoyment of the episodes. Thanks to you, I pick up on different things every time I watch an episode now. Can't wait until the next one! Cal
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Post by Kerrie on Feb 5, 2004 15:46:51 GMT -5
Another outstanding analysis, Spring.
I could make a list of all the things that you picked up that I missed in the episode, but I would forget them. There are so many. The similarity between this episode and Passion. Buffy as history student and Angel as her history tutor. The similarity between Xander's situtation and Buffy's in terms of their mental housing. (This last one I would never have identified even though I know that the formula for writing BtVS revolves doing exactly that. GrrAghh!) The beginning of the end of Buffy and Riley's relationship. (I think this is what you meant when you commented about Riley not wanting Buffy's help in packing anything more up.)
This truly was a great review. I am looking forward to seeing it again.
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 5, 2004 17:32:23 GMT -5
Excellent analysis, Spring! These analyses really add to my enjoyment of the episodes. Thanks to you, I pick up on different things every time I watch an episode now. Can't wait until the next one! Cal It is so nice to hear that I've helped someone enjoy the Jossverse even more than they did before. It really is an amazing effort Joss & Co put out, and I am happy to share in the fun of discovering all its ins and outs. So much more fun for me than watching and noticing this stuff and having no one to talk to about it.
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 5, 2004 17:38:07 GMT -5
Another outstanding analysis, Spring. I could make a list of all the things that you picked up that I missed in the episode, but I would forget them. There are so many. The similarity between this episode and Passion. Buffy as history student and Angel as her history tutor. The similarity between Xander's situtation and Buffy's in terms of their mental housing. (This last one I would never have identified even though I know that the formula for writing BtVS revolves doing exactly that. GrrAghh!) The beginning of the end of Buffy and Riley's relationship. (I think this is what you meant when you commented about Riley not wanting Buffy's help in packing anything more up.) This truly was a great review. I am looking forward to seeing it again. Thanks, Kerrie - as always - for your input. I don't notice most of this stuff when I am "just watching" either. I have to watch, re-watch, and then read, and re-read the script . . . Next up is Out of My Mind -the episode that ends in that steamy Buffy/Spike kiss, in Spike's dream. I'll have to make myself stop rewinding that one scene over and over, so I can get on with the business of analyzing it.
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Post by thelittlestvampire on Feb 5, 2004 17:41:54 GMT -5
This analysis kicked butt!!!!!
TLV
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 5, 2004 20:52:39 GMT -5
This analysis kicked butt!!!!! TLV Thank you, TLV. I love to hear that others enjoyed my efforts.
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Post by ellie on Feb 5, 2004 20:53:11 GMT -5
Spring- it is reviews like yours that make me glad I spend as much time as I do obsessing over Angel and Buffy- they validate the time because you point out so many nuances and really profound details that I missed entirely- Candles and pretence- you really outdid yourself- The Replacement was never one of my favorites ( although I always liked the Spike-y goodness) but your examination and contrast with Passion ( which is definitely one of my favorites) has made me appreciate the episode with a fresh vigor- I think your collected essays would be an amazing prospect for any publisher dedicated to things Buffyesque - thank you for the enjoyment you provide- I look forward to everything you write- it teaches me so much-Your analyses always extend the joy a work of art gives- ellie
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 5, 2004 21:38:48 GMT -5
Spring- it is reviews like yours that make me glad I spend as much time as I do obsessing over Angel and Buffy- they validate the time because you point out so many nuances and really profound details that I missed entirely- Candles and pretence- you really outdid yourself- The Replacement was never one of my favorites ( although I always liked the Spike-y goodness) but your examination and contrast with Passion ( which is definitely one of my favorites) has made me appreciate the episode with a fresh vigor- I think your collected essays would be an amazing prospect for any publisher dedicated to things Buffyesque ellie- thank you for the enjoyment you provide- I look forward to everything you write- it teaches me so much-Your analyses always extend the joy a work of art gives- Thanks ellie. This really is a big project and it does help to keep going to get this feedback. Yes - I loved that "candles and pretense" phrase, and how it fit in with both Passion and what we sense about Buffy and Riley. I appreciate your encouragement to try to collect and publish these things. I have a long way to go before I have them all done, but . . . if I manage to get through them all, maybe I will take up that challenge.
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Post by Rob on Feb 6, 2004 0:57:24 GMT -5
There are certain things one expects when watching an episode that partially focuses on Xander.
It's going to be funny and moving at the same time. How many other actors could have made the Snoopy Dance hilarious and moving all at once?
It's adorable and goofy...yet sad and desperate. Willow can't keep the smile off her face, even though she's clearly concerned for him.
That, in a nutshell, was Xander in his early years. He'd work hard at putting a smile on your face; a lot of times he'd succeed. Those who knew him best, however, knew how much more went into his thought processes.
This episode bears that out. Neither Buffy nor Willow immediately recognize the seperation of Xander because they know him well enough to have seen both sides of his personality. As Spring said, it's Our-Xander who got that promotion and apartment...while the same guy wound up living in his parent's basement.
Once the effects of Toth's weapon become clear, THEN they make reference to the mature, Confident-Xander seeming unrealistic. In truth, they'd seen flashes of confident Xander before....just not very often.
Though it occurs slowly, he shows that side more and more often...especially after his watershed moment at the close of Season 6.
Very nice review, Spring.
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Post by SpringSummers on Feb 6, 2004 9:56:14 GMT -5
There are certain things one expects when watching an episode that partially focuses on Xander. It's going to be funny and moving at the same time. How many other actors could have made the Snoopy Dance hilarious and moving all at once? It's adorable and goofy...yet sad and desperate. Willow can't keep the smile off her face, even though she's clearly concerned for him. That, in a nutshell, was Xander in his early years. He'd work hard at putting a smile on your face; a lot of times he'd succeed. Those who knew him best, however, knew how much more went into his thought processes. This episode bears that out. Neither Buffy nor Willow immediately recognize the seperation of Xander because they know him well enough to have seen both sides of his personality. As Spring said, it's Our-Xander who got that promotion and apartment...while the same guy wound up living in his parent's basement. Once the effects of Toth's weapon become clear, THEN they make reference to the mature, Confident-Xander seeming unrealistic. In truth, they'd seen flashes of confident Xander before....just not very often. Though it occurs slowly, he shows that side more and more often...especially after his watershed moment at the close of Season 6. Very nice review, Spring. Thanks, Rob. I like the observation about how neither Xander set off alarms for Buffy and the Scoobies, not until they knew that something was up. This was true for Anya also. She didn't look at Xander while he was being so very sweet and sensible and mature, and say, "Who the heck are you?" She knew Xander had that ability in him; she'd no doubt seen it before. I liked the way we realize, at the end, that - for all the quirkiness of the two involved, for all the imperfections - Xander & Anya actually have a better relationship than Buffy & Riley. Of course, we know that Xander's childhood demons are going to sabotage that relationship, but still, in that moment in the basement, Xander & Anya look pretty good in comparison. But mostly, there lots of Buffy/Xander parallels being drawn here (mostly the inner turmoil caused by their painful histories), and we are going to see that again when Riley takes off. If Buffy & Riley had made it to the altar somehow, I'm guessing she would have ended up jilting him much as Xander did Anya.
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