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Post by Dalton on Apr 26, 2004 17:56:19 GMT -5
I haven't been around much, but I've noticed quite a few posts about Spike and his romantic entanglements next year - speculation and wish lists, and I have a couple of comments.
First, I do NOT want Spike to go through the rest of his existense (living, undead, whatever) alone. I want him to find a love that will fill him up, and let him give the devotion and tenderness inside him to someone who can return it. Someone who wants to bring out the best in him.
But...
I would be bothered by Spike finding that great love anytime in the next year.
Spike loves BUFFY. Spike changed himself, his future for BUFFY. Spike called Dru his salvation - that being changed into a vampire saved him from a life of mediocrity. He was willing to give up even more of what being a vampire meant to him (more than what he lost when the chip went in) because he wanted to be worthy of BUFFY.
I do believe that by the end of S7, Spike was beginning the journey of breaking away from the 'it's all about Buffy' mindset, and starting to take stock of himself and where HE wants to go. Of what might be best for HIM.
But I still feel that if we're introduced to someone, and expected to believe that she's 'the one' for Spike, the 'long haul' partner, anytime in the next year, it will lessen the magnitude of what his love for Buffy did to him, the actions it caused him to take. The idea that love can conquer evil was the aspect of the B/S relationship that most appealed to me.
Do I want Spike happy? YES. Do I think Spike, the character we've come to know over the last several years, can get involved in a relationship in the next year that honestly means much more to him than a warm (or cool, whatever) body? NO. I just don't think he's made that way.
Mary
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Post by Dalton on Apr 26, 2004 17:57:59 GMT -5
I'm so disappointed that there will be no Faith spin-off, and I'm not sure I like her reasoning, but its her life to live:
IGNFF: I heard they were actually devising a Faith spin-off for you. Why did you decide not to go that route?
DUSHKU: The idea for the Faith spin-off just kind of came up in discussion because everyone really, I think, was feeling like this show's going to end and there are all these fans who love it so much and who love these characters and so, if possible, how could we extend that? I just personally felt like... It would have been a really hard thing to do, and not that I wouldn't have been up for a challenge, but with it coming on immediately following the show, I think that those would have been really big boots to fill. I think it would have been compared to Buffy. And just in terms of me, I've played that character on and off for five years now and I've changed a lot and while the character of Faith changed when I came back because I've changed, I felt like maybe it was time to... I mean, I love Faith. She's my girl and she's been really good to me, but I kind of just wanted to try something else. Purely that, because it had nothing to do with me not trusting Joss and his team of writers, who I just think are amazing. Tim Minear and Drew Goddard and Marti Noxon and all these people, they're so talented and it had nothing to do with me doubting that they could make this show amazing, but I just... I don't know, sometimes you have to go with your gut, and my gut was telling me that I maybe needed to try something else that was just different.
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Post by Dalton on Apr 26, 2004 17:59:09 GMT -5
I think it would neither be credible to Spike's nature nor respectful to the depth and enormity or his feelings for Buffy were he to fall for another woman next season. Next season should focus on Spike coming to terms with his resurrection in what ever form it takes, his new living arrangements in LA - whatever they are - and working out his relationship with Angel and his place with the FG (that's what there called over there, right?). In my opinion I think Spike's arc should focus on his period of adjustment. And it seems Joss is in agreement as well, according to the recent TV Guide interview. Any serious attraction by Spike to another lady too soon would just belittle his life changing love for Buffy and the necessity of adjusting to a new life without her.
Now, that's not to say that I would entirely rule out the possibility of some purely recreational sex, say, with a skanky, good time girl along the lines of the women he brought to Anya's & Xander's wedding, but nothing serious, please.
I know I certainly won't be ready to see him in love with another woman and I'd suspect my bias to be colouring my judgement were it not for Joss echoing my sentiments. After reading that interview I gave a sigh of relief. If he is to get interested in someone new I hope it wouldn't be until the very end of the season; a love interest that would would promise to unfold during the following season.
deborah
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Post by Dalton on Apr 26, 2004 17:59:51 GMT -5
deb, Mary - I agree about Spike needing an adjustment period, and just not having it in him NOT to need that adjustment period - given the depth of feeling he had for Buffy, and the enormity of what his relationship with her ultimately meant for him.
So, I think that what you are suggesting is what we will see - though I think (I hope) he'll be wise enough to consciously be working on getting over Buffy (as opposed to continuing to have hope, ceaselessly mooning, brooding and the like).
Still, Joss & Co may be inconsistent on misc details, but they strive to be consistent, and are amazingly so, when it comes to the important stuff - how something would really feel, and how someone would really act, in a certain situation. So yeah, it's gonna take Spike some time to adjust.
BUT - I have to say I hope they will make that adjustment period as quick as is reasonable. I think there is zero chance that Buffy will walk off into the sunset with either of her loves, even if they both became human. It would totally betray the set up of the BtVS series in my mind, and as much as Joss likes to keep 'shippers guessing and hoping - I can't see him EVER doing it. I'd be really disappointed in him if he did allow Buffy to walk off with Angel or Spike.
So - since I have already written Buffy off for Spike in my own head, I just want to see him move on as fast as makes sense. I can easily see where it could take all Season. I just hope not.
Edited By Spring Summers at 5/29/2003 12:13:00 PM.
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Post by Dalton on Apr 26, 2004 18:00:15 GMT -5
. David said, "we were mere minutes away from Alexandra buying a Greyhound ticket to San Antonio before Spring fessed up. "
Absolutely untrue! I would never have gone by Greyhound. I would have flown. So there, David!
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Post by Dalton on Apr 26, 2004 18:00:45 GMT -5
Ok, I think I've got that on the posting business.
Been reading essays and fic on the SSS board.
Nan, loved the vampires and sex. I hadn't thought about the control thing, but made the AR make more sense. I've read several theories about the AR, the sex=control and the history you put behind it would explain the situation and would then fit into character. I hope next year, we get some back history.
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Post by Dalton on Apr 26, 2004 18:02:35 GMT -5
Mary asked me how to get a pic for her profile. I sent her a post about it, then reflected other folk might likewise have no clue how to go about it. So I cut/pasted and edited my post to Mary and put it as a separate thread on Newboard as instructions how to get a pic for one's profile. If anybody here hasn't done that yet and wants some handholding, you can find the step-by-step instructions on Newboard on how to do it.
Nan
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Post by Dalton on Apr 26, 2004 18:03:02 GMT -5
Thanks Diane. I'm glad you like it. One goal I had when it came to the relationships was increased understanding between them all. For example, Xander (in my universe at least) has a much clearer appreciation of things regarding Buffy and Spike. He recognizes their connection when he establishes his own with Faith.
Buffy and Spike share somewhat similar circumstances: they both have great burdens on their shoulders; burdens they chose to accept because their shared nobility wouldn't allow them to do otherwise. Being together gives them a sense of normality to alleviate the craziness.
Xander and Faith can more readily identify with each other's troubled pasts, and can comfort each other in a way that the others simply can't.
There's a certain symmetry to both relationships. Xander needed to experience this for himself before he could truly understand Buffy/Spike.
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Post by Dalton on Apr 26, 2004 18:03:37 GMT -5
I might just try to get a pic over there.
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Post by Dalton on Apr 26, 2004 18:03:56 GMT -5
Someone had suggested earlier that I read Clean Sheets. ooooooo...Vlad - I want more. Upstairs...dirty sheets...
Nan, still working on Old Blood. Enjoying every bit of it.
I've tried reading fic on other sites and didn't like it so much as what is on the SSS site. I think the people here have a better grip on the 'voices' of the characters. The fanfic I read on the other sites, didn't ring true or were so blatantly bad, it made my head hurt.
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Post by Dalton on Apr 26, 2004 18:06:12 GMT -5
Rusty, chapter 12 was hugely important in developing an understanding of the stakes involved, and delivered a fascinating glimpse of what is to come. Really, really, well done.
Your Buffy dialogue is simply perfect. I can actually see Sarah saying those lines, and it all rings true. This is your best chapter yet.
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Post by Dalton on Apr 26, 2004 18:06:39 GMT -5
Believe me Spring, the finale ended what ever hopes I still clung to for a Spuffy happily ever after. Actually, I hadn't had any hopes for Spuffy happily ever after, only for a Spuffy happily until invariable disaster. But no, Spike's love was to go forever unrequited. As Barb Cummings said in her commentary on End of Days, "Buffy and Spike, the greatest love story never told." towermountain.net/barb/buffyfic.htm But I do expect his period of adjustment to take a while. He'll have a great deal to work through. He spent most of Season 4 adjusting to living with the chip and his role with the Scoobies. I wouldn't expect death, whatever state of grace or purgatory that follows, resurrection, and a whole new life (location, social circle, absence of Buffy) to take any less. deborah
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Post by Dalton on Apr 26, 2004 18:07:23 GMT -5
// Rae, I've finished and sent off SSS Part 17 to Vlad, which completes the parts I signed up to do. For my sins, Part 17 was the one that contained the Steve Martin's dog incident, so I had to go all through that again. However, it also contained some of the finest discussion we've ever done, so it must be preserved and cherished. I've reluctantly adopted the "quick-and-dirty" page-at-a-time approach using MS Explorer (instead of Netscape, which I otherwise prefer to use), and it's true--archiving DOES go much faster that way. I notice that many of the parts above 20 still seem to have nobody signed up to do them. I suggest you put out another call for volunteers and get them all signed up for: time's getting short here. If, after such a call, some parts remain unclaimed, sign me up for a couple. I can do more. I'd just like a break at the moment, since I've been doing pretty much nothing else for the last 4 days.... I want to frivol a little before I have to actually get down to work again.// Great, thanks Nan! I'll mark it as done. Once this week is over, I'll have a moment to breathe and then I'll get back on top of the archiving. Then I'll be triggering the sleepers. I mean, asking for volunteers. However, thanks to everyone who worked on archiving this week, we really did make a good size dent in what we have left.
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Post by Dalton on Apr 26, 2004 18:07:55 GMT -5
Becky, I agree with you. There were some good parts but a high 'Euww' factor. I'm certainly into the whole vampire thing but I kept thinking 'You got into your car with a complete stranger and let him bite you on the neck? God, you people are lucky you haven't ended up dead in a dumpster.'
I would, however, like a set of those teeth. The woman who put in the full set of fangs to snarl at people who cut her off on the freeway was a hoot.
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Post by Dalton on Apr 26, 2004 18:08:48 GMT -5
Oh, that's the comment you were referring to before. I'd wondered.
Yes, I remember flinching and being surprised when I heard her say that to the 1st Slayer. It's a comment that would perhaps not have been misplaced directed to Willow at some point (her Season 4 hair having apparently been modeled after a witch's broom) but was offensive and hovering in the realm of racist when referring to the 1st Slayer (who had *way cool* hair, IMO). But I can't believe the thoughtless offensiveness of that remark could have escaped the writers and Joss. Could it have been a deliberate choice intended to convey something about Buffy's narrow and shallow view of fashion or feminine beauty? Hey, she never made any cracks about Rhona's hair and didn't she have dreds? Don't know. It sure was an odd thing to have her say.
deborah cohen
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