|
Post by Dalton on Sept 23, 2003 12:43:22 GMT -5
Try downloading the episode off Kazaa. It's probably up there by now.
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Sept 23, 2003 12:43:58 GMT -5
Reasons why I want to go home now: Been a l-o-n-g day at work Haven't slept a lot in last several days Want to watch Angel again Friends is on tonight Did it work? -L :-) Edited By Lee Hollins at 5/8/2003 4:05:00 PM.
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Sept 23, 2003 12:44:31 GMT -5
//does Charles see HIMSELF as the muscle and assume that others see him that way too? // I think that's exactly the case. It isn't the Gunn is stupid, but he's always seen himself as stupid -- just the muscle. He understands he's street savvy, but he doesn't see how that compares to the knowledge of Fred or Wesley. I find it fascinating the writers really didn't explore Gunn's self-esteem situation when they took a hard look at Fred. She's exactly the oposite -- she sees herself as smart, but not a warrior. She expressed as much when talking with Angel while on the run from the rest of the Fang Gang, right after having shot Angel and Jasmine with the magic bullet. I've seen Fred in battle plenty of times, looking as much like a warrior as anyone else; when she pointed the Beretta at Cordy, she handled it like a pro and looked completely willing to use it. Gunn has also had his moments where his knowledge has shown and even he didn't realize it, like how he helped Gwen Raiden sneak into that dinner party. Perhaps that was the appeal for Fred and Gunn, that they in each other they saw the things they thought were lacking in themselves -- Gunn saw Fred's brain and Fred saw Gunn's warrior nature. But never did they realize they each had those elements without the other. In many ways, Gunn and Fred are exactly alike.
David Crenshaw
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Sept 23, 2003 12:45:33 GMT -5
David, after more and more people were pissed off (having read it before my warning), it was moved to the spoiler board. Apparently, the person went and got their account this morning for the sole purpose of spoiling the show for those of us on the ep. board. I am still pissed!
James Gaskins
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Sept 23, 2003 12:46:14 GMT -5
The S'cubies rock because: Amazing writers! Insightful, thought-provoking discussions are a given Great group of caring individuals who have become a close-knit group And...just because Did this one work? Addition to this post
Damnit! Why don't the bullet points show up?!?! Screw it. Don't care. Edited By Lee Hollins at 5/8/2003 4:17:00 PM
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Sept 23, 2003 12:46:44 GMT -5
Actually, Patti, Connor has also talked about Holtz tying him to a tree when he was younger and leaving him there. I think that episode we received hints that Connor was abused by Holtz.
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Sept 23, 2003 12:47:13 GMT -5
NEW ON THE S'CUBIE WEBSITE! Rob Sorenson penned yet another chapter in his Triangles tale. You can find Triangles: Chapter 6 in the Chronicles of Truth area. Nan Dibble,working at a feverish pace, has offered up Chapter Eight in her Old Blood story. This latest chapter, along with all the previous, may be found in the Fanfictional! area. And finally, The Soulful Spike Society would like to welcome Becky into it's rolls. Check out her profile in the Profile of a S'cubie area. Vlad, TA, tp Edited By Vlad I at 5/8/2003 4:23:00 PM.
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Sept 23, 2003 12:47:48 GMT -5
Thank you again,James, I was going to bring that up but you beat me to it. And it wasn't just that Holtz left Connor tied to a tree to keep the kid safe while Dad went off and battled evil. It was purposefully designed as a survive-or-die trial. Does the Connor-Holtz situation remind anyone else of Stockholm Syndrome in which hostages, being so psychologically vulnerable, come to identify with their captors?
Becky Henderson
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Sept 24, 2003 0:46:18 GMT -5
Lee, first you open the unordered list with ul inside a left facing and right facing karot block.(one on either side) Then you list the items, each one needs li enclosed in left and right facing karot blocks. When you've finished your list, close the unordered list with /ul enclosed in left and right facing karot blocks. Does that help?
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Sept 24, 2003 0:47:16 GMT -5
//David, after more and more people were pissed off (having read it before my warning), it was moved to the spoiler board. Apparently, the person went and got their account this morning for the sole purpose of spoiling the show for those of us on the ep. board. I am still pissed! // I hear ya, James. From your account, it sounds as if the person did it of malicious intent. I don't blame you for being pissed. I've not read it -- I don't spend much time on the ScoopMe spoiler board only because so much of it is speculation and the people have no clue what they're talking about, but they post it there because they know it's safe. But if it helps any -- there are a lot of conflicting spoilers being released about the final episode. From my understanding, Joss filmed a lot of unscripted things, and he purposely put things in the script he didn't intend to film, for the sole purpose of the info being leaked. There's been speculation that he also filmed alternate endings. He hates spoilers being leaked, and is trying to get at least some misinformation out there. And Wanda/Kristin, who is normally quite accurate and confident in a lot of the information she releases, hasn't come across with her usual confidence; even she's afraid that some of the stuff will be re-filmed and re-edited once it's been announced. As a result, information on the final episode is rather sparse at most of the spoiler websites, because no one is trusting the information they're being handed. I'll give you an example of two conflicting spoilers -- Spike dies, Spike joins the Angel cast next season. Lets be honest -- how can both be right? I hope I didn't upset you by saying either of these things, because frankly, I don't know if either can be believed.
I say all of this for you and for everyone else who wants to remain unspoiled for the last episode, that even if you see a spoiler accidentally, take it with a grain of salt. Not everything that's been put out about the final episode of Buffy can possibly happen. So until the ep actually airs, no one knows for sure what will really happen. Unless they're on Joss' payroll, and even then ....
David Crenshaw
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Sept 24, 2003 0:47:43 GMT -5
But I actually read all of Part 24 and all of the AtS Episode board first -- so here are my thoughts (with apologies for repetition, but I think some of it is new/slightly different): Lilah and Wes. Lilah’s comment to Wesley about his having cut off her head, and his reaction to it: “I never felt a thing.” “I’m sure that’s true.” I think that summed up their entire relationship, even with their later exchange in the file room. I think that Wes really loved Lilah – not the way he felt about Fred – but if Buffy can love both Angel and Spike (and yes, I believe she loves him now) at the same time, why can’t Wes love both Lilah and Fred? And I think Wes knew that Lilah, being essentially an evil thing, could never love him back. I think that her feelings for him mirrored Buffy’s feelings for Spike in S6. Post-Jasmine FG. Loved the way the FG was trying to convince themselves that what they did was right – that they didn’t end world peace. “We ended a nefarious global domination scheme, not world peace, right?” Gunn in the White Room with a growling black panther. I don’t know if you picked up on Gunn being able to see his reflection in its eyes. What does it mean? I’m not sure – I thought it was a little too “obvious” to call Gunn a “Black Panther,” so I don’t think ultimately that’s what JW is trying to convey here – besides all the negative connotations that appellation carries, JW usually is not one to go with an obvious reference. It’s got to mean something deeper. Actually, it put me in mind of Buffy’s journey in the desert and finding the cougar (I don’t remember what kind of cat it was) as her spirit guide. I think that the panther is a “totem” for Gunn – yes, he is a “black panther,” which is why he saw himself in its eyes, but I think we have to dig deeper for meaning here. I haven’t had time to delve into it yet. Connor and Angel. I didn’t see any parallels to what Willow did at all. I don’t think that Angel played with anybody’s mind. And I think that Angel’s sacrifice was greater than simply giving up his son – I think that Angel killed Connor. Remember the dialogue the two were having? Connor said (and I’m paraphrasing) “I didn’t feel anything – I can’t feel anything – I guess I really am your son, because I’m dead too.” Later, after Angel tells him “I want to give you everything – take back the mistakes – help you start over,” Connor says “We can’t start over. There’s only one thing that changes everything – that’s death. Everything else is just a lie. Can’t be saved by a lie – can’t be saved at all.” Finally, Angel tells him “I really do love you Connor,” to which Connor responds, “So what are you going to do about it?” Angel says, “Prove it.” Then we see Angel swinging the knife at Connor. I think he killed Connor. It was the only way to change Connor’s life – to have him “re-born,” so to speak, to different parents and a different fate – one that did not include Angel. Because it didn’t include Angel, it didn’t include any of the FG – so of course, they wouldn’t know who he is. Still need to finish reading the BtVS Episode board, and need to re-watch both episodes!
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Sept 24, 2003 0:48:31 GMT -5
David said: "I say all of this for you and for everyone else who wants to remain unspoiled for the last episode, that even if you see a spoiler accidentally, take it with a grain of salt. Not everything that's been put out about the final episode of Buffy can possibly happen. So until the ep actually airs, no one knows for sure what will really happen. Unless they're on Joss' payroll, and even then ...." An example of this is that James Marsters didn't even know he was gettng a soul last season UNTIL he heard the words from the actor playing the demon 'And I will return...YOUR SOUL' because those words weren't IN the script he was given. He said he had been given 3 script endings to memorize and the one they filmed was a FOURTH ending. So the shock we saw on his face was real. I have hopes the same will be true (and should be even more true) of this final ending. Even though I've 'spoiled' myself, I am hoping to be fooled. I guess that puts me in the 'happy my mind was wiped' category...so much for MY talk about free will...
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Sept 24, 2003 0:48:55 GMT -5
Laura's joined the party, Laura's joined the party, la la la la...Laura's joined the party! Hi Laura! Glad to see you're back posting! (not that we haven't been emailing or anything but still....you know what I mean) I enjoyed all your points, especially the Gunn/panther/spirit guide comments. -L :-) Edited By Lee Hollins at 5/8/2003 4:45:00 PM.
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Sept 24, 2003 0:49:22 GMT -5
Laura, really enjoyed your thoughts. I liked your comparison of the black panther to Buffy's spirit guide big cat...good call I think. Also enjoyed your thoughts on Angel and Connor - yes, I think he killed Connor, that conversation was significant. Nice post!
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Sept 24, 2003 0:50:09 GMT -5
Why Patti is cool: - She is one FUNNY gal!
- She helped me with this HTML code stuff
- Her description of her convention experience was awesome!
- She's a S'cubie - need I say more?
Please work, please work, please work, please... -L Addition to this post YES!!!! It worked! Oh, the power, the power! MWHAHAHAHA....I feel such a rush now - I can do bullet points!! Yippee! Shut up, I get excited over little things, alright? ;-) Edited By Lee Hollins at 5/8/2003 4:49:00 PM
|
|