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Post by William the Bloody on Oct 8, 2004 16:51:43 GMT -5
Yep, you've found it! The place to discuss this fine episode!
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Post by MaryMuse on Oct 8, 2004 17:06:00 GMT -5
Woah! I'm first.
I really don't have much to add. You did a lovely job of showing all the "starting over" points. I agree with you on the car chase. I was wondering why he was trying to run them off the road, though when he cocked his thumb and forefinger at Kate, I thought it was a gun. Maybe he was just wanting to silence her, which is what I was thinking. Or it was a "you're going down!" type motion. But my first, instinctual thought was that he was going to harm her and that was played out by the wreck.
You didn't mention the creepy ripping the arm off? Unless that was the Fugitive. Which I didn't see, so entirely possible.
I don't think Kate's crime is all that black/white. I'm also wondering if she's wanted for something she didn't do, and was simply scared, hence her appearance in Aussieland. And that would be supported if the Marshall wasn't going to bring her to justice at all. He could have her killed somewhere between there and Canada and claimed she tried to run or something.
Good review! Kudos!
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Oct 8, 2004 18:49:51 GMT -5
You did it again Vlad....*hug* Very good review - I like the format you are using - it works - keep doing that!
Good job of summarizing the episode, and then pulling out what 'really' happened. -
I'm coming back and modifiying this after Joan of Arcadia - but I have to get some supper ready and go watch that. This is by no means all I have to say about your review...
- to be continued -
and I'm back...
ok...
The episode is about starting over , true. Tabula Rasa also means 'draw the curtain' right? Draw the curtain over the past, start over - same thing - but drawing the curtain can also mean keeping things hidden - and this episode is sure about that, as you point out. So many lies...spoken and unspoken, so many misdirections. And also, as you conclude, things that were true before - in other circumstances, maybe not being 'true' in the circumstances they find themselves in now.
You caught some interesting things I didn't see - didn't see that Jack's hands were scratched up - I didn't notice the black and white shirts on Jack and Sawyer - but I agree that it had to be significant - just like I think the fact that Jack and Kate's identical shirts at the end support the idea that Jack told Kate not to reveal her secret because he himself has secrets - the two of them are alike... (which doesn't mean I think you're wrong about him not fully trusting her to tell the truth then....these don't rule each other out.)
You said...
"Jack’s speech to Kate about them all starting over, that the past doesn’t really matter is not completely true. They would all be worse off if Jack hadn’t gone to medical school in his past, or if Sayid hadn’t learned leadership, electronics and survival skills in the army. The past does matter… but it’s a case of they now have a chance to play the game again."
Lost on an island...it's got to be about how civilization must adapt to survive, doesn't it? You know how much I am enjoying the ideas this show is presenting for us to think about - and I am very excited about how you are taking those ideas and bringing them into your reviews. I agree with your 'what works' and 'what doesn't' items... though I didn't think of the Fugitive in connection with the one-armed farmer...you're probably so right ...Kate's definitely a fugitive. nice.
The car chase also struck me as over-extended...and that bit where the car was trying to hit the truck still makes no sense to me.
And I am going with the 'what the!' reaction to Hurley using up precious battery power to play his music. That was incredibly strange less than an hour after we heard Sayid asking for the electronics etc. to be gathered up...
Something else I thought at first didn't work was that whole ending sequence when things went all 'shiny' as Karen said... the very 'all is well'-ness of it made me uneasy - and then when we get the closeup on Locke (remembered again! *grin*) I understood. Again, the curtain was being drawn - all was not as it seemed.
Gosh I love this show, and love the way you are covering it.
I'm going to re-watch this ep tonight, with your review fresh in my head.
But I liked your prediction for Vincent's future a lot more last week than this week!
ps...High Adventure? loving it!
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Post by Karen on Oct 8, 2004 19:09:16 GMT -5
'A Bright New Day', huh? It certainly looked that way at the end. All shiny happy people. Keeping hope alive, getting busy, and sharing moments. A Kodak moment there at the end. And then the creepy, close up of Locke's eyes. I missed that Locke told Walt that "A miracle happened." I can't wait to find out what he meant. I'm liking bad-boy Sawyer a lot, too. I wonder if they'll all grow beards, or if there are enough razors to keep them clean shaven? Interesting comment you had about Sawyer's penchant for nicknames and the control he's trying to exert by using them. And he is very Han Solo-like, as you said. So does that make Jack - Luke? Locke - Darth Vadar or Obi-Wan? Charlie could be R2-D2 - he's got the accent. Kate is definitely a Princess. I too like your format and the update of the characters. LOL over the The car chase seemed kind of contrived, unless Ray was having second thoughts and that's why he didn't pull over right away. The truck was reddish orange, so I figured it'd blow. Thanks for the great review, Vlad! Next Wednesday is too far away.
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 8, 2004 21:42:25 GMT -5
Nice work, Vlad.
I especially appreciate the nice summary because I watched the ep with some distractions and felt like I didn't catch everything.
Yes, Hurley is a TERRIBLE liar so I guess it is a good thing he doesn't know the secret about the 16yr old broadcast.
I liked the way you pointed out the "clean state/starting over point" for the various folks. Nice catch on the bloody knuckles.
I don't think the poor pup is in any danger of being seen as food. Surely they will be able to make do with the bounties of the sea and the surrounding jungle?
I thought the marshall was in a pretty bad way by the time he tried to strangle Kate, so there may be an explanation in regard to "their story", or there may be nothing beyond his fever.
I hope the baby is born soon and is born healthy - not just because it looks like mamma is going to explode soon otherwise. It will be interesting to have a baby growing up on the island. Of course, in a reversal of the your concern, Vlad, I worry it might look like a snack to the dog.
PATTI: I don't think Tabula Rasa means pull back the curtain. That's a different phrase . . . it starts with a "t" also, but eludes me right now. Nevertheless, I think your observations, about the past still being there, are very correct.
Locke - well, more light side/dark side indications this week.
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Post by Lola m on Oct 8, 2004 21:53:14 GMT -5
Got my tape of Lost today from MaryMuse - yay! What a nice surprise to come home to.
Count me in with Patti on liking this style of review. A quick plot summary/synopsis, then an analysis of the ep, followed by a "where are they" cast overview. Very very very helpful. I can see myself going back to these for a quick review as the season continues and we get more and more of all the passenger's stories. Remind myself of back story and so on.
I go back and forth on the car chase. It does seem nonsensical, but then . . . the theme that the marshal kept harping on was that Kate would get people on her side, somehow talk them around, and that she always would slip away. So perhaps he was worried that she'd somehow talk Ray the farmer into helping her. Or that she'd figure out something was up and slip away before they got to the meeting place. Then, because he got too eager and aggressive, he drove her to the very action he was probably trying to avoid. And by trying to take control of the truck, she - in a way - caused the accident. (Another reason for her to feel a bit guilty about Ray and want to make sure he got the reward money.) My current theory is that there was some former personal connection between the marshal and Kate. Maybe they knew each other before she was on the lam or they've run into each other so often since then that he became a bit obsessed. That may be why he jumped the gun on the capture scene.
Loved your points about the "starting over" themes for each of the characters. The way Sawyer is "half right" again - the changing relationship between Sayid and Sawyer. Jack sums it all up so nicely at the end when he admits that they are all starting over - nothing will ever be the same after this event in their lives. But as you said, their past histories still matter because your experience is what creates the person you are now. We'll just get to watch as this new experience creates changes in each of them.
Did anyone else notice if Walt says that Locke said "a miracle happened to him" - specifically the him at the end? Because, was he talking about surviving the crash as dad assumes or about something altogether else?
The scene with the attempted mercy killing that Jack has to finish was just stunning. Perfect to have each actual "act" take place out of camera sight so that we each have to imagine what it would be like to do something like this.
Very cool review of a very cool episode. Thanks, Vlad!
Lola
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Post by Patti - S'cubie Cutie on Oct 8, 2004 22:48:58 GMT -5
Nice work, Vlad. I especially appreciate the nice summary because I watched the ep with some distractions and felt like I didn't catch everything. Yes, Hurley is a TERRIBLE liar so I guess it is a good thing he doesn't know the secret about the 16yr old broadcast. I liked the way you pointed out the "clean state/starting over point" for the various folks. Nice catch on the bloody knuckles. I don't think the poor pup is in any danger of being seen as food. Surely they will be able to make do with the bounties of the sea and the surrounding jungle? I thought the marshall was in a pretty bad way by the time he tried to strangle Kate, so there may be an explanation in regard to "their story", or there may be nothing beyond his fever. I hope the baby is born soon and is born healthy - not just because it looks like mamma is going to explode soon otherwise. It will be interesting to have a baby growing up on the island. Of course, in a reversal of the your concern, Vlad, I worry it might look like a snack to the dog. PATTI: I don't think Tabula Rasa means pull back the curtain. That's a different phrase . . . it starts with a "t" also, but eludes me right now. Nevertheless, I think your observations, about the past still being there, are very correct. Locke - well, more light side/dark side indications this week. OH you are right...that was the spell Buffy did when she found out about Dawn. shoot...oh well, Tabula Rasa doesn't mean pull back the curtain, it means 'draw the curtain' (I just made that up, but that doesn't mean it isn't true on some island somewhere...)
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Post by Linda on Oct 9, 2004 2:48:04 GMT -5
Hi Vlad! Thank you for your great review. I have to admit that I was kinda zoning out while watching the episode -- which had less to do with the quality of the episode than the fact that I'd gotten only 3 hours of sleep 3 nights running at the time. Your synopsis is so well-presented that I could visualize the scenes and interactions you've described very clearly. So thanks very much for pointing out all of the details I missed. (Which includes pretty much everything except some general impressions.) I missed out on the regular real-time discussion on the Main Board, so I wanted to add a couple of thoughts here. This is what struck me when you mentioned the kindly rancher/farmer saying that everyone deserves a fresh start: because of his betrayal, Kate didn't get one. Her past caught up to her in the form of Marshall Johnny Fever (did we ever learn his real name, btw?) The final happy song montage (eetah about Hurley wasting batteries, btw) was pretty much about denial, IMO -- I think there was actually a line that said "We're going to be washed away/But not today, not today." IIRC, most of the lines of the song were like that. I've been so Whedon-warped that I didn't even need the ominous music and creepy Locke shot to know that the bad times would arrive soon, despite the sunniness of the beach scenes. Eetah with your thoughts about Sawyer. The guy acts out as tough and macho, but when he's alone -- pensive and sad. I wonder what was in the letter he was reading in the previous episode. And, tellingly, he's not a very competent killer. Locke -- I got the feeling he's setting up his game pieces. First Walt. And then through Walt (and Vincent), his dad. Because Walt's new happiness with Michael is based on a lie -- and Locke set it up step by step. Befriend boy & find out things about him & his dad. Key: Vincent. Spends the day carving a whistle. Uses the whistle to call Vincent. Offers Michael the chance to be a hero. Michael is grateful, but vulnerable -- because what would Walt think if he finds out that the one *great* thing that his dad did for him was actually done by Locke? Blackmail material, IMO. Because Michael would do just about anything to keep Walt's good opinion of him, as he proved by braving the scary jungle to look for Vincent. 'Course, Locke could've done it all out of the goodness of his heart -- THAT would be a twist, wouldn't it? Smallish illustration that the past will *always* affect the future: there's no way that Michael can un-see nekkid!Sun without major head trauma. ;D Other, less competent game-player: Jin!Gavin -- "I love you." Pfffththt. Unless, of course, he's trying to goad Sun into breaking away from him. The evil side of my brain would like to present a theory about who could be another game-player: Kate. So much about her is hidden. (Agree with everyone wanting to know why she is a fugitive.) This is the part that sticks out for me: IIRC, she, too, tried to talk to Jack about mercifully ending the Marshall's life. But it was Sawyer who pulled the trigger and Jack who finally ended his suffering. Kate walks away with clean hands. Her only definitive action was handing the gun and the responsibility to Sawyer. OK, OK, I know that killing someone you know is too horrifying to contemplate. But still -- was the Marshall necessarily lying when he said you couldn't believe a thing she says? In the last episode, Kate was pretty handy at disarming Sawyer. Also, in the beginning of the episode, everyone in the hiking party showed that they trusted her with the gun more than anyone else. If Kate was a manipulator, this would be right where she'd want to be. This is all pure speculation. I'd be more than happy if this theory was proven wrong soon. (If only to stop the gloating "Mwa ha ha!" of my Evil Paranoid Brain.) Ummm, this kinda bugs me whether or not Kate is as good as she seems: would the $23,000 reward cover the Rancher's truck, artificial arm, hospital bills, the time he wouldn't be able to work and the monster mortgage? Yes, he betrayed her first AND she saved his life. However, she didn't tell him she was a fugitive in the first place and his life wouldn't have been in danger if she hadn't rolled his truck over in her effort to escape. (Evil P. Brain adds: and is that *really* the favor she was going to ask the Marshall?) Occasionally, I am callous and strange. Linda, oh, and Hawaii still pretty, my evilosity notwithstanding ...
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Post by Sara on Oct 10, 2004 16:32:09 GMT -5
Hi Vlad! Thank you for your great review. <snip for space> The evil side of my brain would like to present a theory about who could be another game-player: Kate. So much about her is hidden. (Agree with everyone wanting to know why she is a fugitive.) This is the part that sticks out for me: IIRC, she, too, tried to talk to Jack about mercifully ending the Marshall's life. But it was Sawyer who pulled the trigger and Jack who finally ended his suffering. Kate walks away with clean hands. Her only definitive action was handing the gun and the responsibility to Sawyer. OK, OK, I know that killing someone you know is too horrifying to contemplate. But still -- was the Marshall necessarily lying when he said you couldn't believe a thing she says? In the last episode, Kate was pretty handy at disarming Sawyer. Also, in the beginning of the episode, everyone in the hiking party showed that they trusted her with the gun more than anyone else. If Kate was a manipulator, this would be right where she'd want to be. This is all pure speculation. I'd be more than happy if this theory was proven wrong soon. (If only to stop the gloating "Mwa ha ha!" of my Evil Paranoid Brain.) Ummm, this kinda bugs me whether or not Kate is as good as she seems: would the $23,000 reward cover the Rancher's truck, artificial arm, hospital bills, the time he wouldn't be able to work and the monster mortgage? Yes, he betrayed her first AND she saved his life. However, she didn't tell him she was a fugitive in the first place and his life wouldn't have been in danger if she hadn't rolled his truck over in her effort to escape. (Evil P. Brain adds: and is that *really* the favor she was going to ask the Marshall?) Occasionally, I am callous and strange. Linda, oh, and Hawaii still pretty, my evilosity notwithstanding ... First, eetah on the praise for Vlad--great review. Second, and this probably belongs in the other thread, but having watched the second half of the "Lost" pilot twice--the second time coming after the initial board discussion--I have to respectfully disagree with the bolded part. Because we'd talked about Kate's moves in disarming Sawyer I paid attention to see how she'd done it during my repeat viewing--and discovered it really doesn't look like she does anything particularly tricky at all. Kate essentially just waits until Sawyer's back is fully to her and he's distracted by Sayid, then grabs the gun out of his waistband. It was simply a matter of waiting for the right opportunity and acting on it. Not that I don't think Kate doesn't have a ton of secrets, because she clearly does; I just don't think she was feigning her unfamiliarity with the weapon.
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Post by leftylady on Oct 11, 2004 16:55:23 GMT -5
Just a few random thoughts:
**what's with Charley and the "late" knuckles?
**Three days ago "we all died": Anybody ever see the movie "Jacob's Ladder"? Are they really on an island, or did they really die? In "Jacob's Ladder" the apparent reality turned highly surreal at point of the soldier's death. That would explain the strange whatever in the trees and the out of place polar bear. Probably nothing here, but I thought I'd at least point out the possible parallel.
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Post by Sara on Oct 11, 2004 17:17:40 GMT -5
Just a few random thoughts: **what's with Charley and the "late" knuckles? **Three days ago "we all died": Anybody ever see the movie "Jacob's Ladder"? Are they really on an island, or did they really die? In "Jacob's Ladder" the apparent reality turned highly surreal at point of the soldier's death. That would explain the strange whatever in the trees and the out of place polar bear. Probably nothing here, but I thought I'd at least point out the possible parallel. I haven't seen the movie, but that's a very interesting point. Although I personally would be hugely disappointed if that turns out to be the case--it feels like it'd be a cop-out to me.
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Post by deborah on Oct 11, 2004 17:38:38 GMT -5
I'm glad you're doing these reviews, Vlad. I missed Tabula Rasa because I stayed too late at the office last Wed. Happily, very soon extended office hours for personal computer access will no longer be an issue. Now, I don't suppose you can fill me in on the last two episodes of Joan of Arcadia that I missed for the same reason ? Printing off your review to read at home. deborah
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Post by Karen on Oct 12, 2004 11:00:57 GMT -5
Just a few random thoughts: **what's with Charley and the "late" knuckles? **Three days ago "we all died": Anybody ever see the movie "Jacob's Ladder"? Are they really on an island, or did they really die? In "Jacob's Ladder" the apparent reality turned highly surreal at point of the soldier's death. That would explain the strange whatever in the trees and the out of place polar bear. Probably nothing here, but I thought I'd at least point out the possible parallel. Charlie's writing of LATE on his knuckles interested me, too. He changed FATE to LATE. I suppose he's realizing that they are truly stuck on the island - that the rescue party is late. And the more time that passes, the chances for rescue get slimmer. I haven't seen "Jacob's Ladder" either. Interesting theory that they all might be dead - and it could be that's what we're seeing. It's been mentioned that the dog staying in the jungle and away from the people was odd. There could be a connection there. I tend to think that they all did "die" in a way. Maybe Locke meant that the "miracle" was that they all got a second chance at life, in a way. It seems that they all were at a place in their lives where things were starting to go wrong. They were "Lost", in other words. Charlie with his drug addiction. Kate and her arrest. Something is going on with Jack that we don't know about yet. Sawyer is definitely struggling with something from his past - from the look on his face when he was reading that letter, or whatever it was. Jin and Sun's relationship isn't the best, and neither is Walt's and his father's. The unwed pregnant girl and the 'princess' seem to me to be struggling with issues. Hurley, Sayid and the lifeguard brother don't seem conflicted about anything, but we haven't gotten a real good look at their characters, yet. Only Locke seems to believe that being "Lost" on an island is a good thing. He actually looked joyful to be rained on - like he was washing something away from his soul. It's a cool mystery. I can't wait to see how the group will split. We're already seeing a definite split in basic philosophies. Jack - trying to hold on to civilized ways. Sawyer - feeling that all bets are off - an each man for himself attitude. Kate seems to be stuck between those 2 philosophies. Will she be able to hold it all together, or will she choose a side?
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 12, 2004 13:00:49 GMT -5
Charlie's writing of LATE on his knuckles interested me, too. He changed FATE to LATE. I suppose he's realizing that they are truly stuck on the island - that the rescue party is late. And the more time that passes, the chances for rescue get slimmer. I haven't seen "Jacob's Ladder" either. Interesting theory that they all might be dead - and it could be that's what we're seeing. It's been mentioned that the dog staying in the jungle and away from the people was odd. There could be a connection there. <snip> But if they are all dead . . . wouldn't they all "seem alive?" I mean . . . there would not be any dead bodies. It would seem as if everyone survived. It just doesn't feel right. They have dead bodies to bury of those who didn't survive, but they didn't really survive either - some of them seem dead-dead, and some don't . . . Not impossible, but it would definitely make me grumble with discontent.
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Post by Karen on Oct 12, 2004 13:27:59 GMT -5
But if they are all dead . . . wouldn't they all "seem alive?" I mean . . . there would not be any dead bodies. It would seem as if everyone survived. It just doesn't feel right. They have dead bodies to bury of those who didn't survive, but they didn't really survive either - some of them seem dead-dead, and some don't . . . Not impossible, but it would definitely make me grumble with discontent. Maybe the ones who are alive were kept alive by some unseen force so that they could resolve the unresolved issues from their past. Like a kind of purgatory. Fun to speculate on the supernatural aspects of it all. *whistling Dixie*
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