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Post by Dalton on Jul 7, 2003 10:39:33 GMT -5
I agree with your analysis, Spring. Somehow Buffy's going to need a ton of help to get in the position to finish off the First, and that's not coming from a bunch of SIT's and Principal Wood. I'm betting the final showdown will feature Willow, Dawn, Xander and, of course, Spike. Everyone else will step to the sidelines. At least that is my hope. I give a lot of credit to ME; while there are still a myriad of spoilers available, I'm sure, they've done a lot better job keeping major developments under wraps. Last year, it wasn't a question of who dies, but of when. Rumors of a Big Scooby Death were rampant from the beginning of Season 6, and every sign pointed to Tara. This year I think there will one more devastating loss, but I can only guess as to whom. Logic points to Anya, as she's pretty much done nothing this year after her big showcase episode. If she dies it won't have the same impact as it did on last years plot. Willow had the capacity to destroy the world. Xander simply does not. It might be cool to watch Willow have to talk Xander out of something dangerously rash, thereby returning the favor for her closest friend. There would be a nice symmetry to that.
Rob Sorenson
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Post by Dalton on Jul 7, 2003 10:40:26 GMT -5
Vlad, I'm flushed with admiration that you're able to post things as fast and accurately as you do considering how much material I send you in a short time. Take as much time as you need. I know I throw an awful lot of material at you in a hurry, and I'm not at all surprised that it takes time to put on the site. I'm eternally grateful that you do it at all. I'll try to slow it down a little. Of course, I tell you this after sending you yet another chapter last night. Oops. :-) Seriously, once the story I'm currently writing is done, I'm probably tapped out for a spell. For those of you who wonder if I have a life considering how much I write for the site and post here....the answer is not much. At least not in comparison to the rest of you. The responsibility of raising a family is much more than a full time job, and I marvel at the amount of quality contributions some of you are able to make with your other obligations. I'm a single childless male living alone who happens to be ocsessed with all things Buffy. This is a great way to fill the hours without spending a bunch of money, and a profoundly enriching experience to boot. Therefore I thank you to all the people who post here regularly. Being here absolutely rocks.
Rob Sorenson
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Post by Dalton on Jul 7, 2003 10:41:06 GMT -5
I'm also a single childless male who can't check the spelling on his own posts. I meant, of course, to say oBsessed with all things Buffy. Sorry.
Rob Sorenson
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Post by Dalton on Jul 7, 2003 10:42:04 GMT -5
Robert, if we were charged by the typo, I'd be the first one to go bankrupt. I figure as long as it more or less makes sense, without an edit button there's nothing I can do about it (except try to proof in advance, which doesn't always work, to put it mildly) and I'm not gonna worry about it. If people are gonna figure I'm an idiot, it's because I can't remember names for more than a nanosecond and therefore generally misattribute things, not because I mangle some perfectly common word--like teh or nad. Now THAT's dumb! We're in fine and forgiving company in terms of each of our typical oopses. Nan
Nan Dibble
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Post by Dalton on Jul 7, 2003 10:42:38 GMT -5
I'm sorry, Diane. I can't really think of an entertaining crossover. If I were any good at that sort of thing I'd try to help you out. Maybe in the next month and a half while we're mired in rerun land I'll give it a shot.
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Post by Dalton on Jul 7, 2003 10:43:19 GMT -5
I guess I'll break the post-episode ice. This episode entertained me. I'm not going to call it great, because in the end it wasn't, but I had some laughs early on. I like Andrew. Let me open this by getting that out of the way. I think he's been a nice added comic dimension. The writers have clearly fallen in love with Tom Lenk and treated him to an episode built completely around his character. I have no real problem with this, as long as this serves the purpose of moving him to the background where he belongs from now on. I learned something important; a little bit of Andrew goes a long way. The first 30 minutes were much more enjoyable than the last, and I think that is the key point of my little review. More on that later. For now I'm going to break down my impressions character by character. We begin with Spike. We basically got nothing this week outside of one indisputable fact: Wood is going to take the shot when it's presented to to him. There is no doubt about it. I'd be willing to bet that the next episode will resolve this before the real plot kicks in, thereby moving Principal Wood into the background where HE belongs. I'd also be willing to bet that Wood has no shot at getting it done. This will also satisfy those S'cubies who didn't enjoy the Buffy-Wood sparkage. I think it's fair to say that will soon be coming to an end. Oh, and Spike's basement scene with Andrew was very funny. Next, I come to Buffy. Clearly she's lost the interest of the people she is to be leading. She's trying too hard to channel Giles. He had a certain amount of wit and tolerance for the old Gang's good natured taunts (he doesn't have it any more either, apparently....but I digress). When it came time to get serious Giles could even get Buffy to fall into line when it mattered, because he was wise enough to understand his Slayer and her needs. Ration out the serious speechmaking for when it's really needed, and you'll get better results. Giles had two sides, and Buffy is only emulating the humorless one. Buffy is the Slayer Who Cried Wolf. After a while, the speeches become routine. Andrew expressed that perfectly. I have nothing for Willow in this episode because she did even less than Spike. She and Kennedy are comfortable together again. Isn't that special (choke). Dawn......did nothing. Absolutely, positively nothing. She's clearly grown fond of Andrew, and that's cute. That's about it. Regardless of how Nick Brendon chose to play it, I think Xander and Anya's relationship is officially over, and I like how they ended their 4 year relationship arc. I don't mean the sex, by the way...though hopefully Anya won't have to masturbate in the bathroom for a few days at least (hilarious, by the way). Xander doesn't let love go easily, and his facial expressions didn't close the door completely. This is true to the character. I LOVED their intimate conversation where Anya shows why he fell in love with her. She truly respects Xander, and I give Jane Espenson credit. She usually writes Xander as a hopeless doofus (First Date, anyone?). Tonight was a fond farewell to their couplehood. This was for the fans who loved them together, and it was a welcome respite to the useless bitchy Anya that we've been subjected to. So.....what have I learned? I learned that my feeling regarding Andrew being groomed as a replacement for Xander is ridiculous. People are going to argue with me here, but right around 8:40 I wanted to smack him. It went from cute fantasizing to self indulgent immaturity in a hurry. Moreover, episodes where I can see the ending coming a million miles away are always going to be a little unsatisfying for me. Who didn't see the Grown Up Young Man Facing the Camera After Finally Learning His Lesson scene coming? I think Andrew's wacky, geeky quest for redemption could have been resolved as a partial arc in an episode that could have featured more of Dawn and Willow. I think the next episode (late March, maybe?) will be heavily centered on Spike and Principal Wood, so I'll forgive them the lack of attention to my favorite vampire. Andrew kinda digs him, though. Shirtless Spike. Wherever Warren is he has to be feeling a little jealous.
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Post by Dalton on Jul 7, 2003 10:44:03 GMT -5
Robert- I pretty much agree with your initial assessment of the show with except for the lessening of regard for Andrew. I agree that the ending was telegraphed from early on but it still worked for me. They have done a nice job of redeeming a character I would never have focussed on as being affection worthy. I think that was the point- so many of the things we on this and other boards have carped about were gently mocked and incorporated as continuation of the plot and criticism of the character's actions at the same time. I am looking forward to the resolution of the tensions between Giles, Buffy, Spike and Wood. It really feels like Buffy has grown up from the virginal, petulant, albeit brave teenager to a sexually grownup,world weary and still petulant adult who knows that she will never be someone who follows the guidebook. I still cannot abide Kennedy and would hope that she fades to the background you have foretold for Andrew and Wood ( I agree with you that that will probbly happen to them). Oh- Diane- check your e mail
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Post by Dalton on Jul 7, 2003 10:44:51 GMT -5
So what is the deal? Did I hear Andrew say that vampires could not be seen on video? So Spike is...? Has this been resoved in a prior episode? Is it only vampires with a soul whose image can be captured whereas those w/o cannot be photographed and how does this play into the idea that "cameras steal your soul"? It is going to be fascinating to see how all these loose ends and discontinuities are resolved. It is beginning to seem as though some of them are deliberately embedded like puzzle pieces.
ellie jason
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Post by Dalton on Jul 7, 2003 10:45:46 GMT -5
Ellie, I didn't mean to give the impression that I don't like him. My regard for him is the same as it was. I always thought he was funny. He still IS funny....in limited doses. I'm just unhappy that an entire episode was devoted to a guest character in the last season with 7 episodes to go. I applaud Andrew's maturation process. I just don't think it deserved an entire episode. During the scene in which he was flashing back to Mexico and the Scoobies were threatening to hurt him? I agreed. He just bugged me there instead of being funny; I think it was due to overexposure. Andrew, properly used, is a wonderful and endearing supporting character. In my mind he didn't deserve lead character attention at a time like this.
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Post by Dalton on Jul 7, 2003 10:58:51 GMT -5
Robert- I dunno- i was wondering that exact thing while the episode was on. I think it is supposed to be some kind of object lesson on a par with Andrew deliberately turning off the video at the end. There was all that banter between Buffy and Andrew about the IDEA of narrative supporting the desire to see GOOD prevail and I could swear that the attempt is to get the audience to see themselves as prime negotiators in the choice of good actions over evil via the person of Andrew. It feels lkie they are trying to get the audience to say goodbye to the characters, the Buffy/Spike romance and happy endings as a panacea.. I know this is pretty vague...
ellie jason
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Post by Dalton on Jul 7, 2003 10:59:48 GMT -5
I'm not entirely sure how to react to that. There was an aspect of closure regarding Andrew's attitude and Xander and Anya's relationship. Outside of that it was pretty much nothing for everyone else. One gets the feeling they're heading somewhere bad for Xander or Anya, however. I don't trust Joss when we get genuinely satisfying moments between beloved characters. Someone usually dies shortly afterward. They keep throwing hints at us with D'Hoffryn sending minions after Anya occasionally....ME may hit us with that while we're focusing on something else. A good example is the nice reconciliation scene between Xander and Buffy in Season 6 the moment before Tara dies. I was enjoying the rare moment of Buffy telling Xander how much he means to her when Warren comes in firing.
Rob Sorenson
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Post by Dalton on Jul 7, 2003 11:00:25 GMT -5
Robert-The funny thing is- I really feel there is something special in store for Xander- it cannot be unimportant that he is loyal without superpowers and a solid spporter of some rally strong female characters. I think he will still be punished for leaving Anya at the altar and I think that Giles is headed for a major fall- I mean he has not been particularly supportive to any of his "children" this season. It is hard to tel whether the characters are going to be lambasted for staying too long or leaing too quickly. I mean some characters are being depicted as trying way too hard for inappropriate relationships (Kennedy, Xander,maybe Spike) and others are bailing w/o sufficient regard for the fallout. (Giles,Wood,Andrew)
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Post by Dalton on Jul 7, 2003 11:01:10 GMT -5
First, did anyone notice what kind of cereal Buffy was eating? I want to try it. I too want to have two guys like Robin & Spike follow me around and do my bidding. Wow. I love the character of Andrew and think Tom Lenk does a great job, so I enjoyed the episode. I have spent no time re-watching and analyzing, so I don't have a lot to contribute on that score right now. I did enjoy the way they showed us how Spike had changed by showing us what would have been a "real" reaction, last year, to Andrew taping him, was just role playing this year. Xander and Anya - it was nice to see them get together, but I don't think Spike is going to be to happy about them having sex on his cot . . .
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Post by Dalton on Jul 7, 2003 11:02:03 GMT -5
I didn't tape it but immediately afterward I started asking myself what parts were on tape and what parts weren't. I think there's something to be said for what's recorded (as officially part of the 'story') and what's not. And this translates to what's 'seen' and what's not 'seen'. For example, Xander and Anya's moments after the deed were off-camera. Wood nearly staking Spike was off-camera. How else can we examine what made Andrew's tape and what didn't? Sounds like a job for Spring to me! Athene V
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Post by Dalton on Jul 7, 2003 11:04:30 GMT -5
Ellie, I have to watch my tape again for the exact line but I believe the question Andrew asks Buffy in the graveyard is why vampires CAN be photographed or taped. That all vampires can be photographed was established back in Season Two in "Halloween" which begins with one of Spike's minions secrectly video taping a fight between Buffy and a vampire in a pumpkin patch. Later at the factory we see Spike reviewing the the tape over and over again to study Buffy's fighting style, and both she and her vampire opponent are clearly visible on the playback. There was some discussion about this point on the Episode board recently. It was pointed out that if vampires have no reflection then they should not be visible in a photograph either. It was also mentioned that reason behind the common canon of vampires having no reflection is tied to the absence of a soul. I think it would have made satisfying sense if in JossVerse ensouled vampires DID have a reflection. Not only would Angel's status be easily detectable but it would also be a tangible sign of Angel and Spike's unique link to humanity. deb
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