|
|
Post by Nickim on Feb 17, 2005 7:21:32 GMT -5
I liked that the dog was a golden retriever...cause I watched the Westminster Dog Show today...the G R came in third and I thought he ....sorry - SO off topic! I think the Boar was certainly out to get his attention anyway. They need to find Dr. Doolittle cause these animals are trying to tell them something. I agree that the animals are more than just "animals." When Sawyer faced the boar at the end, the boar didn't charge, just calmly looked at Sawyer as if to say, "Have you learned anything yet? Or, do I need to keep destroying your stuff?" Our material things, our "stuff" are much less important than we think, and animals don't need those things to survive. The boar was showing "Sawyer" that he doesn't need all that baggage he's dragging around. |
|
|
|
Post by Nickim on Feb 17, 2005 7:24:02 GMT -5
Yep. I'll bet they were all being inexplicably drawn together even before they got on the big plane o' doom. ITA And, I'm guessing that Hurley's backstory ties them together somehow. |
|
|
|
Post by Nickim on Feb 17, 2005 7:27:19 GMT -5
Oh - mine too. You killed it? Then you mix the cement and make the shoes and dump the body. It's the only fair way to go about it. Well, they've got the ocean to dump someone in, but I guess Charlie didn't wish for a bag of cement. ;D |
|
|
|
Post by Nickim on Feb 17, 2005 7:37:10 GMT -5
But then...don't you just hire some muscle to do your killing for you? Why sucker some poor schmuck who already has a world of problems into doing it? Too convoluted for my tastes. Because, Hibbs owed "Sawyer" a lot of money. So Hibbs told "Sawyer" just what he wanted to hear, so "Sawyer" would forgive the debt. Who wants to bet that Hibbs is the real Sawyer? |
|
|
|
Post by Nickim on Feb 17, 2005 7:39:05 GMT -5
Considering I made a "Killer" list back in last week's episode …was that a hint? Linda, obsessive? Moi? And, I made a "Con Person" list. |
|
|
|
Post by Jan on Feb 17, 2005 7:53:17 GMT -5
*Contemplates this statement with regard to the Evil Baby, the Polar Bears, the Giant Roaring Thing, Locke Walking, Michael and his twilight zone powers, Charlie, CFL, and so forth...* Huh. Too convoluted. Okay! ;D  Teasing, of course: some of those things are a bit much at times for me, too. But here's a couple of good reasons.... 1. Cheap. Sawyer would do THAT guy for free. 2. Won't be buy-offable, if he things the guy is the one who ruined his life. 3. Hibbs and Sawyer had problems already, as shown by Sawyer's greeting of him: maybe it was to get him out of the country, too. 4. Not likely to turn on Hibbs if he thinks that Hibbs has done him a solid in finding the guy out for him, if Sawyer's captured by the cops, unlike a hired muscleman. Works for me about as well as a lot of other things, and better than some of the gadgets in Alias, is all. Or, as I said to my friend Dan, after we watched Batman Returns together, and he was stating that Selena Kyle could not have made her catsuit out of that single coat: "Dan, you accepted, without a quibble, intercontinental balistic missile penguins. Your suspension of disbelief is gonna balk at a couple of square feet of vinyl? " But then, I am Past Master of Fanwankery...   Eetah on all the reasons that Hibbs would set Sawyer up to kill Duckett. Sawyer had threatened Hibb's life and Duckett had run out on a debt. Double payback for Hibbs. And so right with the sorts of things that cause interruptions in the "suspension of disbelief." When Rich & I saw "Shanghai Knights," after nearly two hours of absurdity, Jackie Chan and Owen Wilson are knighted by Queen Victoria--the assembled crowd begins to applaud and they turn to wave and bow to the crowd. Rich says, "You don't turn your back on the Queen! That's ridiculous!" Much hilarity ensued. Other thoughts, after reading Linda about Sawyer giving back the gun. I think the boar provided by the island?--Sawyer's unconscious?-- was its way of trying to force him to actually deal with himself and his feelings and his choices. His mother was an avoider or she would have dealt with the issues in her marriage or her self in some way other than having an affair. His father was an avoider or he would have had other means to deal with his feelings of betrayal than to shoot her--and then shoot himself to avoid THOSE consequences. The traumatized boy Sawyer had never seen any way to be in life but to avoid or to act out (rather than feel and deal) feelings. So when life got hard for him as an adult, he chose to follow the "strength" he had seen earlier--the "strength" of the predator. Rather than doing the hard work of finding out how to play the hand life dealt him that would actually benefit him. His retarded "tracking" of the boar, shows just how bad a predator he actually was. (Kate on the other hand...) And we really don't know if he chose not to shoot the boar because Kate was standing there and he knew she wouldn't like it. Tho giving up the gun--actually relenquishing any part of his belongings voluntarily--seems a step in the right direction. So maybe it wasn't all about looking good to Kate. Or maybe looking good to Kate is why he gave back the gun, too. He competition with Jack seems to be his most important dynamic on the island--other than making everyone (besides Kate, who is also a prize in the competition) hate him as much as he hates himself. I do find it interesting that the writers, having him give up one weapon, provide him in the same scene with one of a type that they have shown him to be less hesitant to use. Hurley story so many weeks away. Grr. Argh. Oh, and thank you all for all the groans laughs. |
|
|
|
Post by Pixi on Feb 17, 2005 8:05:56 GMT -5
The episode itself was above-average. On the other hand, the individual scenes between Sawyer and Kate in front of the campfire and Sawyer and Jack's father in the bar might rank as the best-written pieces the show has produced thus far. Considering Goddard wrote it, that should come as no surprise to anyone here. Wow - there was a lot of reaction to this. (hee, hee on the horrible puns). I agree with you Rob - these were excellent scenes. The entire episode held my interest. We had the creepy eye in the beginning and a very well done opening scene to build the suspense sequeing into the boar in the tent. I felt the previews for this show in no way conveyed how good it would be as I really wasn't looking forward to a little love triangle show. This one, with its creepy connections and revelations was very well done. The Locke golden retriever story - while a little obvious - was still so well acted that I sat there thinking - here's mr. mysterious, helping the little island mystery along and I know where this story is going the minute he starts and yet I can't turn away. He is a spellbinder. |
|
|
|
Post by Jan on Feb 17, 2005 8:16:16 GMT -5
Wow - there was a lot of reaction to this. (hee, hee on the horrible puns). I agree with you Rob - these were excellent scenes. The entire episode held my interest. We had the creepy eye in the beginning and a very well done opening scene to build the suspense sequeing into the boar in the tent. I felt the previews for this show in no way conveyed how good it would be as I really wasn't looking forward to a little love triangle show. This one, with its creepy connections and revelations was very well done. The Locke golden retriever story - while a little obvious - was still so well acted that I sat there thinking - here's mr. mysterious, helping the little island mystery along and I know where this story is going the minute he starts and yet I can't turn away. He is a spellbinder. Hi. Pixi. I agree with you all the way. Although I think the whole cast is good, Terry O'Quinn is one of the best actors on TV right now, and your description of how you felt about his script and how he delivered the lines is a perfect example of the kind of presence and skill he has. |
|
|
|
Post by Lola m on Feb 17, 2005 8:31:02 GMT -5
Oh, oh, oh - did anyone else think that Sawyer was gonna say, "You have stupid hair" after the cologne exchange? And...interesting thing, the boar...Locke made him think he had a second chance, even a small one, to make the right choice. (After all, what if it was the wrong boar?) But the setting up a man to be murdered over a debt doesn't ring true. Dead men don't pay their debts. It's not the most making sense thing ever, but sometimes when the debt is really large and/or maybe even small but the loaner knows the person isn't ever really pay and needs to make an example to everyone else who owes him money . . . |
|
|
|
Post by Lola m on Feb 17, 2005 8:35:04 GMT -5
*Contemplates this statement with regard to the Evil Baby, the Polar Bears, the Giant Roaring Thing, Locke Walking, Michael and his twilight zone powers, Charlie, CFL, and so forth...* Huh. Too convoluted. Okay! ;D Teasing, of course: some of those things are a bit much at times for me, too. But here's a couple of good reasons.... 1. Cheap. Sawyer would do THAT guy for free. 2. Won't be buy-offable, if he things the guy is the one who ruined his life. 3. Hibbs and Sawyer had problems already, as shown by Sawyer's greeting of him: maybe it was to get him out of the country, too. 4. Not likely to turn on Hibbs if he thinks that Hibbs has done him a solid in finding the guy out for him, if Sawyer's captured by the cops, unlike a hired muscleman. Works for me about as well as a lot of other things, and better than some of the gadgets in Alias, is all. Or, as I said to my friend Dan, after we watched Batman Returns together, and he was stating that Selena Kyle could not have made her catsuit out of that single coat: "Dan, you accepted, without a quibble, intercontinental balistic missile penguins. Your suspension of disbelief is gonna balk at a couple of square feet of vinyl? " But then, I am Past Master of Fanwankery... Another wonderful quote I'm gonna tuck in my back pocket. "You accepted intercontinental balistic missile penguins and now you're gonna balk at a couple square feet of vinyl?" Notice how it's always the penguins who start trouble? I think the interplay we get between Hibbs and Sawyer makes your scenario plausible enough. |
|
|
|
Post by Jan on Feb 17, 2005 8:36:41 GMT -5
Because, Hibbs owed "Sawyer" a lot of money. So Hibbs told "Sawyer" just what he wanted to hear, so "Sawyer" would forgive the debt. Who wants to bet that Hibbs is the real Sawyer?I love this idea, but is he old enough? |
|
|
|
Post by Lola m on Feb 17, 2005 8:39:43 GMT -5
The episode itself was above-average. On the other hand, the individual scenes between Sawyer and Kate in front of the campfire and Sawyer and Jack's father in the bar might rank as the best-written pieces the show has produced thus far. Considering Goddard wrote it, that should come as no surprise to anyone here. I would agree wholeheartedly! The escalating (or would that be degenerating) nasty-ness in the "I Never" game, as selected truths get pulled out; Jack's dad's absolutely amazing and sad confession about his son (including that little slip about "what he did to me . . . for me"). Gems! And lovely bits of acting, too. Dad's eyes just dropping down quickly to look at the bottle all the time, letting you know how desperate he is. Kate and Sawyer's little glances at each other, half flirt, half anger, half . . . I don't know what. Ah, Drew!! Lola |
|
|
|
Post by Lola m on Feb 17, 2005 8:44:34 GMT -5
Hi all! First of all: AAACK!!! You guys got awfully chum-y last night. *raises hand* May I please hurl onto Patti's shoes too? ;D Also: Mmmm…running Sawyer. He runs even faster than the (as Matthew said) 114-months pregnant woman. Smallish complaint: he sleeps wearing a belt. He shouldn't, 'cause when he runs, his pants would be more likely to fall if he's beltless I'm sure the other castaways need stuff like belts for other things. (Hey! Minds out of the gutter please … oh, wait... never mind…carry on. ) Sawyer strikes me as someone who doesn't share very easily. So I thought the Sawyid moment (thanks Matthew) was hopeful, as was the "I Never" game with Kate. Under what circumstances would Sawyer share his past with Hibbs? Or did Hibbs do his own research in his convoluted plan to play him? So: who has more of a Father issue: Joss? or JJ Abrams? Sawyer's dad was pretty monstrous, and Jack's dad refused to make peace with Jack as well as inadvertently sending Sawyer back to kill. By making it seem like weakness not to. And "To Sawyer. May he find whatever he's looking for at the bottom of a glass" sounds more like a curse than a toast. All that talk of Hell didn't bode well, either. This episode struck me as very Joss-y. The main Lost/Angelverse connection that I saw was the child!Sawyer & Dana the damaged Slayer parallel. (The hiding under the bed felt like déjà vu.) Like Dana, the horrible experience of his childhood damaged Sawyer and eventually led him to murder. (A Drew co-written ep., BTW.) But the Jossiest touch, IMO, was that it was all about choice. Sawyer made a lot of bad choices. And a few good ones. In the end, when faced with the boar that wrecked his shelter & ate his food & peed on his shirt, he realized that a boar was just a boar. Yep, people and circumstances can grievously harm you. But what you do with your life is still your choice. And I think his giving up the gun was a sign that he had let go of his need for revenge. Sadly, his withholding the information that would mean so much to Jack, and the fact that he has not yet paid for the murder tells me that he still has a ways to go. But then, Sara's Red Sox won the World Series, so I have high hopes for his redemption. Linda, and Hawaii still pretty. My. And Linda still very smart! Eetah on the Jossian touches. Things like Jack's dad's speech to Sawyer being the unknowing element that triggers the murder, and the backstory of Jack's childhood trauma. Sometimes a boar is just a boar. Something tells me that was an important thing for Sawyer and us to really hear. (I had that same thought about the Red Sox quote!  ) Lola |
|
|
|
Post by Lola m on Feb 17, 2005 8:45:50 GMT -5
I'd say OurSawyer knows that was Jack's dad, but he's not about to just give that info away. This episode certainly proves you can't tell much from the previews. Yep. I think he's pretty darn sure about Jack's dad, but he's holding onto the info to see what it'll get him later. |
|
|
|
Post by Lola m on Feb 17, 2005 8:48:12 GMT -5
Because, Hibbs owed "Sawyer" a lot of money. So Hibbs told "Sawyer" just what he wanted to hear, so "Sawyer" would forgive the debt. Who wants to bet that Hibbs is the real Sawyer? Ooooh, now that's an idea!   A very clever and interesting idea. Hmmmm. |
|
)
