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Post by SpringSummers on Apr 2, 2005 22:54:14 GMT -5
I don't think you missed anything, Rob. Locke is obsessed with that hatch to the point of madness, right now. I have the impression that he thinks the island told him to find it, but I could be wrong. Yes - Locke seems to think he is being led by "The Island" in most all of his actions - and certainly in relation to the hatch. I think that obsession was a more primary reason, really, than guilt, for leaving Boone. |
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Post by RAKSHA on Apr 3, 2005 0:21:34 GMT -5
Oh yes. Did you see the trailer, with a very injured Boone begging Jack to just "let him go?" I do not want Boone to die. I don't want any of them to die, though I can imagine that such a thing could happen in a show like this one. Locke leaving Boone - yes, terrible thing to do. Definite parallel being drawn with what his own father did to him: [/li][li]Locke's dad, Anthony, lets him put his own (Locke's) life at risk, with the thought that he is doing something for the both of them -something they will both benefit from. Then once he has what he wants, Anthony abandons his physically damaged and hurting son and leaves him all alone in the hospital to go back to his own life and interests. [/li][li]Locke tells Boone to make that climb: "You have to do it for us." He can see it is dangerous, and he's even had a dream suggesting Boone will get hurt. Then he abandons the ailing Boone to go back to his obsession - the hatch. Of course, Locke is NOWHERE near as slimy and deliberate and ruthless and hurtful and absolutely selfish about it all as Anthony. But still, I believe the parallel is deliberate. Locke subconsciously doing to Boone what his father did to him. Yes - am anxious to see Shannon's reaction in general to Boone's terrible state.[/quote] There is a difference - When Boone was in the teetering plane; Locke yelled at him more than once to get out of it, realizing the danger in which he'd placed him.
I think that part of Locke's abandonment of Boone might stem from guilt - and perhaps being so overwhelmed by it that he desperately needs the bunker to open, to justify the suffering that he and Boone have endured...Locke was not as calculating or as deliberately cruel as his own father, but he is, as you say, drawing a parallel to his father's treatment of him...
Powerful episode.
GAIL  |
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Post by RAKSHA on Apr 3, 2005 0:34:42 GMT -5
I don't think you missed anything, Rob. Locke is obsessed with that hatch to the point of madness, right now. I have the impression that he thinks the island told him to find it, but I could be wrong.
I think it's because Locke has had a footloose, unanchored life; until he reconnected with his parents. They were terribly cruel to him, especially his father, who made Locke feel important and valued and wanted, then used him and abandoned him. Later, Locke was paralyzed and, in the last "Walkabout" flashback, was feeling particularly disconnected and useless. Then, he crash-lands on the island, gets the use of his leg back, and the island starts talking to him, and people are looking up to him, he's needed. I think Locke is personalizing The Island - adopting it as a more reliable, if occasionally terrible, parent or divinity. Hence his terrible grief and frustration when the Island still, after the sacrifice of Locke's young acolyte, refuses to divulge its deepest secret. Didn't Locke shout "I did everything you wanted" as he was pounding on the hatch?...
GAIL |
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Post by Pixi on Apr 3, 2005 7:57:49 GMT -5
There is a difference - When Boone was in the teetering plane; Locke yelled at him more than once to get out of it, realizing the danger in which he'd placed him.
I think that part of Locke's abandonment of Boone might stem from guilt - and perhaps being so overwhelmed by it that he desperately needs the bunker to open, to justify the suffering that he and Boone have endured...Locke was not as calculating or as deliberately cruel as his own father, but he is, as you say, drawing a parallel to his father's treatment of him...
Powerful episode.
GAIL I find myself fascinated by the Christ-like parellels Spring and obviously the writers have drawn. And I also find myself wondering how far did they take this and how far are we supposed to take this. Locke would not speak - would not tell Jack what had happened to Boone. Jesus when he was before Herod would not speak (now all the songs from Jesus Christ Superstar are running through my brain). The virgin Mary statues - Locke immaculately conceived. Abandoned by his father - Jesus in the garden of Gethsemene also crying out for his father, asking this cup to be taken away from me, feeling that God, the Father had abandoned him. And of course the light. So are the writers telling us Locke is Christ? Obviously in one way. He has a new religion - the Island, seeking followers Come unto me and I will make you fishers of men - Boone his first disciple, talking of needing Sayid. My mind - especially on this beautiful Sunday morning is boggling. So many speculate of where they are. Is this where the writers are taking us? And going even further back - Jesus lived his life quietly as a carpenter before being baptised by John. Locke - living his life quietly - suddenly baptized by the rain of the Island - now a leader? All very fascinating and interesting in the way the Locke-centric episodes are the ones that have been so hard hitting also. Hopefully - I have not offended anyone with my religious parellel speculation and I'm just trying to follow up on original speculation. But, in the words of the immortal Spock - "fascinating". |
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Apr 3, 2005 9:27:29 GMT -5
I find myself fascinated by the Christ-like parellels Spring and obviously the writers have drawn. And I also find myself wondering how far did they take this and how far are we supposed to take this. Locke would not speak - would not tell Jack what had happened to Boone. Jesus when he was before Herod would not speak (now all the songs from Jesus Christ Superstar are running through my brain). The virgin Mary statues - Locke immaculately conceived. Abandoned by his father - Jesus in the garden of Gethsemene also crying out for his father, asking this cup to be taken away from me, feeling that God, the Father had abandoned him. And of course the light. So are the writers telling us Locke is Christ? Obviously in one way. He has a new religion - the Island, seeking followers Come unto me and I will make you fishers of men - Boone his first disciple, talking of needing Sayid. My mind - especially on this beautiful Sunday morning is boggling. So many speculate of where they are. Is this where the writers are taking us? And going even further back - Jesus lived his life quietly as a carpenter before being baptised by John. Locke - living his life quietly - suddenly baptized by the rain of the Island - now a leader? All very fascinating and interesting in the way the Locke-centric episodes are the ones that have been so hard hitting also. Hopefully - I have not offended anyone with my religious parellel speculation and I'm just trying to follow up on original speculation. But, in the words of the immortal Spock - "fascinating". Not Christian, and not offended. This is indeed fascinating, Pixi, and something I missed completely. Thank you for sharing your specialized knowledge. |
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Post by Karen on Apr 3, 2005 12:37:49 GMT -5
He seemed like a natural with the gun. First time hunting and, bam, gets the bird. Like father, like son? other comments: Did anyone perk up when Mom said Locke was special? Another "special" person? We're finding out that they may ALL be "special", in some way or another. I don't get the "Locke abandoned Boone" idea. I saw it as his running in despair and guilt over his responsibility for the accident and Boone's injuries. Was especially struck by the image of Locke prostrate on the hatch. Reminded me of paintings of Jesus weeping in the Garden. Or alternatively, of a supplicant throwing himself on an altar to pray. Hmm... now that I've put that down in writting, let's see.... We got a claim of immaculate conception, carrying Boone like the burden of the cross after spending lengthy time in the wilderness, and now weeping in the Garden, a little out of order I'll admit, but doesn't that come before the crucifixion? Love all the imagery we're getting. So if someone is supposed to die by season's end, and if it were Locke, would he then rise from the dead for Season 2? Ok, now you and everyone else has me convinced that Locke is the one who is going to die. (NOOOOOOO!) If we're to go with the Garden of Gethsemene imagery, then Locke's "I've done everything you wanted me to do." leads to his death - because that was the final sacrifice he (Christ) had to make. Hmmm. I got to think there's more to it than that. Interesting stuff, tho, and feeds into my religious heritage...as I suppose it does to Locke's also. I wonder how 'the black rocks' and Danielle's and Charlie's insistance that there are 'others' on the island figure into all of this. |
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Apr 3, 2005 13:18:37 GMT -5
Ok, now you and everyone else has me convinced that Locke is the one who is going to die. (NOOOOOOO!) If we're to go with the Garden of Gethsemene imagery, then Locke's "I've done everything you wanted me to do." leads to his death - because that was the final sacrifice he (Christ) had to make. Hmmm. I got to think there's more to it than that. Interesting stuff, tho, and feeds into my religious heritage...as I suppose it does to Locke's also. I wonder how 'the black rocks' and Danielle's and Charlie's insistance that there are 'others' on the island figure into all of this. I'm going back and forth between "Boone is going to die, they've practically told us so" and "Boone is too obvious, they've telegraphed his death, it has to be someone really unlikely". ![]() www.soulfulspike.com/staff/smileys/frustcon/blink.gif [/img] Too many clues! Too Many Clues!!!!!  I'm afraid that the show is going to fall victim to Chris Carter Syndrome. ![]() www.soulfulspike.com/staff/smileys/frustcon/juggle.gif [/img] Too many plot threads, none of them connected, all contradictory...  |
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Post by Rob on Apr 3, 2005 16:21:22 GMT -5
[/img] Too many clues! Too Many Clues!!!!! [/quote] I fear for Charlie, myself. All that heroin lying around, waiting to be picked up...if anything catastrophic happens with the baby (for which he would find a way to blame himself), something tragic seems very possible. Especially if the drugs haven't been prepared for distribution; 100% pure smack would kill anyone. Of course, he hasn't learned of it yet...but I assume the writers put the heroin there for a reason. |
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Post by Karen on Apr 3, 2005 17:00:56 GMT -5
I fear for Charlie, myself. All that heroin lying around, waiting to be picked up...if anything catastrophic happens with the baby (for which he would find a way to blame himself), something tragic seems very possible. Especially if the drugs haven't been prepared for distribution; 100% pure smack would kill anyone. Of course, he hasn't learned of it yet...but I assume the writers put the heroin there for a reason. Did you ever notice how similar are the words heroin and heroine? Not that it means anything, but everytime I'd read 'heroin', I'd think 'Heroine'.  |
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Post by Pixi on Apr 3, 2005 17:24:33 GMT -5
Ok, now you and everyone else has me convinced that Locke is the one who is going to die. (NOOOOOOO!) If we're to go with the Garden of Gethsemene imagery, then Locke's "I've done everything you wanted me to do." leads to his death - because that was the final sacrifice he (Christ) had to make. Hmmm. I got to think there's more to it than that. Interesting stuff, tho, and feeds into my religious heritage...as I suppose it does to Locke's also. I wonder how 'the black rocks' and Danielle's and Charlie's insistance that there are 'others' on the island figure into all of this. Karen - by the way - I love your Cool Money avatar. See the black rocks, the others can also all have a religious interpretation - though I would guess the writers aren't going that far. (I have a lot of ideas about them but they are too nebulous at this point) I think they are the hinky extra. I can't see them killing Locke. I just can't. But rising from the dead - that's a possibility. I just think the character is too popular for them to kill off once and for all. |
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Apr 3, 2005 18:50:12 GMT -5
I fear for Charlie, myself. All that heroin lying around, waiting to be picked up...if anything catastrophic happens with the baby (for which he would find a way to blame himself), something tragic seems very possible. Especially if the drugs haven't been prepared for distribution; 100% pure smack would kill anyone. Of course, he hasn't learned of it yet...but I assume the writers put the heroin there for a reason. Oh, so not good. I fear you are right about this. Charlie is still pretty fragile, and he already blames himself for Claire's abduction. I know nothing about this, but does heroin go stale over time? Maybe it's all gone flat, so to speak. We can but hope. |
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Post by SpringSummers on Apr 5, 2005 7:39:57 GMT -5
Rae: I share your Terry O’Quinn love. He has been excellent so far in his role as Locke. It’s a complex part, and he really sells it. Enjoyed the speculaton on the meaning of the title, and also the suggestions of how the trap imagery expanded beyond the Mouse Trap game to Locke’s memory and to the Island itself. I agree it’s likely a warning to the viewer as well – but what are they going to spring on us?? Yes, Sawyer cute. Farsighted, indeed. He really is an extremely perceptive guy, you just can’t always trust him to use his smarts for the good of all. But I hope we see him in those crazy glasses again. I am anxious to see how Charlie handles having a plane full of heroin on the island. More imagery about the Island giveth (release from Charlie’s addiction, release from Locke's wheelchair) and the Island taketh away. Our folks are being given a second chance, it seems, in one way – yet they each find themselves having to face their old demons, one by one. Thanks for the nice effort and enjoyable read, Rae.  |
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Post by Karen on Apr 5, 2005 10:47:35 GMT -5
Rae - Excellent review! You touched on some things I had thought briefly about when watching, but had forgotten after getting hit with so much information in the episode. Like the stark hospital room. So odd. How many of the people on this island feel responsible for the death of someone else whether by their own hands or someone else's? This should be added to Linda's list! It's a great catch and is something most of them seem to have in common. I had wondered about the symbol on Boone's shirt for a while. 84 is double 42, whatever that might mean. After you mentioned it, I remembered thinking how it was odd that the person on the radio would so quickly recognize Flight 815 and seem to *know* that there were no survivivors. Weird how they said 'no survivors' with such certainty, and not '815 has been missing'. I'm glad you brought up the color red - as used as pointing out red herrings. (Another one - Locke's mom had red hair!) I have noticed them use the color orange alot, too. Michael had an orange shirt on in quite a few of the episodes and so has Kate. Little details that are so much fun to ponder over. Thanks for doing the review, Rae. I've so behind in my commenting on everyone else's reviews, but I've enjoyed them all so much! |
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Post by raenstorm on Apr 5, 2005 11:02:54 GMT -5
Thanks for the kind words Spring and Karen Karen - I also noticed the orange. I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean yet. I was noticing in this episode that Jack wears a white shirt while Sawyers shirt was striped black and white. I did wonder if there was some significance to that... plus Boone with the gray (altho it looks green at times too) shirt. The problem I have with it is that I'm not sure the colors of everyone's clothes match what we're being told about them. I'll have to watch again and note the other colors I see. Good catch on the 42 doubled - I kept trying to make it fit somehow. I only searched down the meaning of the symbol because I was hoping it'd have some significance. |
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Post by raenstorm on Apr 5, 2005 13:07:58 GMT -5
I was reading some stuff on a LJ Lost Community I belong to and came across this: www.livejournal.com/community/lost_tv/594875.html#cutid1 (The LJ post itself is not spoilerly but I haven't read through the comments and can't vouch for them) Guess that means we can disregard my bullet about what the transmission said... and possibly, I suppose, about why it was so clear? Anyway, it's interesting info and I wanted to pass it along. |
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