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Post by Dalton on Jul 12, 2003 14:57:59 GMT -5
Watergal, I think you'll easily handle the challenge of two "Pam's" at the board - but my maiden name began with "H" so the first time I saw a "Pam H" post here, I had to do a double-take. ;-) Hey - you and Robert want to know how awesome the Xandman was in "First Date"? *I* EVEN liked him and praised him! He DOES face danger head-on with a coolness many of us probably would SO NOT have: Angelus in the hospital ("Der Kinderstod" episode); the vamp guy in the school basement with the bomb in "The Zeppo"; Spike nearly ALL the time (sometimes to my chagrin, tho'); and of course most recently before "First Date" was facing Veiny!Evil!Willow and the end of S6. And honestly, that whole "Willow, Gay Me Up!" rant was just GREAT! Spike always has my heart regardless, but last night Xander had my funnybone (and I hope that doesn't sound too obscene...). Lord knows with all the crap going down in the real world, we can use a good laugh.
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Post by Dalton on Jul 12, 2003 14:58:38 GMT -5
"After all he was in China, and the way things are going, proably killed the new sit's GG. Grandmother." Well, as of actually being in China and killing the slayer in the Boxer Rebellion, he didn't speak Chinese. (Slayer in subtitles: tell my mother I'm sorry. Spike: I'm sorry, I don't speak Chinese. not exact quotes) He could have learned in the past hundred years, however. I think it's interesting that the first slayer he killed mentioned her mother, and telling her mother he was sorry, and the second slayer he killed was a mother, whose son is going to confront him. And he really is sorry this time.
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Post by Dalton on Jul 12, 2003 14:59:16 GMT -5
Pam H and Nan: Those are good recommendations. I guess first off Welcome to the Hellmouth is good because you don't need any prior knowledge, but I feel like the series got much better later... If I want to be Spike centric, maybe School Hard? What do you think? I'm not sure at this point if I don't have special affection for that one just cause it introduced the tv-love of my life.
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Post by Dalton on Jul 12, 2003 15:00:02 GMT -5
I certainly hope that there isn't a love triangle between Spike/Buffy/Wood. Besides the fact that I hate love triangles in general, I kind of think it would be wrong possibly to the point of grossness if Wood pursued a woman who slept with the man who killed his mother. You could say that there is potential for Spike to be let off the hook because he has a soul now, and could be counted as a different person from the one who did those things, but Buffy slept with him before he had a soul, and before he expressed remorse for any of the people he killed. I know Wood doesn't know any of the story at this point, but I can't imagine that he's not going to find out at all.
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Post by Dalton on Jul 12, 2003 15:00:31 GMT -5
Funny just as I was about to bring up this very line Julie should mention it in post #393: (Slayer in subtitles: tell my mother I'm sorry. Spike: I'm sorry, I don't speak Chinese. not exact quotes) FX just aired "Fool For Love" and that line was missing from the episode. Someone over on the Episodes board just mentioned that FX is notorious for trimming episodes to make room for more commercials and I thought "Ah ha! I knew I wasn't crazy. I knew I remembered that line from the first and only time I'd seen the episode before last week.
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Post by Dalton on Jul 12, 2003 15:01:10 GMT -5
to guess that this is NOT the direction the series is heading in...too distracting, not enough time. As Giles said, there's more important issues to be focusing in... I still think there's gotta be a twist coming up regarding Wood. For example, is he also a sleeper? Does he flirt with the dark side? Remember when he (seemingly possessed) went into the basement and disposed of Jonathan. For whatever reason, TFE has also targeted Wood. Currently, TFE is pissed off at Spike because Spike wasn't easy to turn evil. So if it can use Wood against Spike (maybe not to kill Spike, but to cause some more dissent/distraction in the Scooby ranks), then it continues to work toward its ultimate goal. And the other thing...when TFE said, re. Spike, "It's not time for him yet." YET? What's this "yet"? I'll be hanging on all season for an answer to that one.
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Post by Dalton on Jul 12, 2003 15:01:35 GMT -5
Yes, Buffy slept with Spike before he had a soul but by the time they got together Spike had already come a long way on his journey toward redemption. Unlike Angel/Angelus Spike sans soul was little different from ensouled Spike. The only change the soul has wrought on him is overwhelming and at times crippling guilt over his past crimes and attrocities against anonymous victims rather than just guilt and remorse he previously felt in association with people in his life; e.g., Buffy and Dawn, that he personally knows and cares for.
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Post by Dalton on Jul 12, 2003 15:02:08 GMT -5
One more thing...did we all notice that Spike got his ass whupped by Ashanti last night? He seems a little weak, no?
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Post by Dalton on Jul 12, 2003 15:02:42 GMT -5
"Yes, Buffy slept with Spike before he had a soul but by the time they got together Spike had already come a long way on his journey toward redemption. Unlike Angel/Angelus Spike sans soul was little different from ensouled Spike. The only change the soul has wrought on him is overwhelming and at times crippling guilt over his past crimes and attrocities against anonymous victims rather than just guilt and remorse he previously felt in association with people in his life; e.g., Buffy and Dawn, that he personally knows and cares for." Oh, certainly not denying that. What I'm saying is, he's argueably a completely different being now that he has a soul (but I don't buy that, Angel/Angelus notwithstanding), so one could potentially posit that Wood and Buffy getting together wouldn't entirely be him getting together with the ex of the murderer of his mother, if she had slept with Spike after the souling. (But I still think it would be wrong and icky.) But he didn't have a soul then when she did in fact sleep with him, and there is no getting around that she slept with the person who had killed Nikki, despite the fact that he had progressed a long long way since.
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Post by Dalton on Jul 12, 2003 15:03:56 GMT -5
I did. That was one of my points in my overly long and unintentially duplicated post that I copyied over to the Episode Board as well. The subject line is "I Took Notes".
deborah cohen
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Post by Dalton on Jul 12, 2003 15:04:39 GMT -5
"if it can use Wood against Spike (maybe not to kill Spike, but to cause some more dissent/distraction in the Scooby ranks), then it continues to work toward its ultimate goal." Hey, what you said made me notice something. What do you use to kill a vampire? Wood, of course!
Julie A
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Post by Dalton on Jul 12, 2003 15:05:08 GMT -5
I mentioned over on the episode board, and will mention here, that “brandied pears” was a favorite dessert not just of Robin Wood’s, but also of one of Dru’s relatives – she mentions it when she is torturing Angel with Holy Water in What’s My Line Part II (which I just rewatched for my next analysis). So – the relative of one of Angel’s victims (Dru) is likened to the relative of one of Spike’s victims. I think this may foreshadow Robin W doling out, or intending to dole out, some punishment to Spike, as Dru did to Angel (though I pray we don’t see Wood stroking Spike’s torso!). There is no time for anything to really happen between Wood & Buffy. I agree any interest he may have had in her is dead now – he can see she cares for Spike, and if he has eyes, he must suspect that it may be more than that. No way he can be OK with that. Also, he was lost the minute he thanked The First. He’s going down a “Willow-like” vengeance path, and there isn’t time for him to allow himself to partner with Evil, do it’s bidding, find redemption, and get together with Buffy. deborah: I agree that soulless & soulful Spike are not as different as Angel & Angelus, but I still see “no remorse for thousands of horrible crimes” and “remorse for all of them” as a big difference.
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Post by Dalton on Jul 12, 2003 15:05:37 GMT -5
I think that Wood could try to get to Spike thru Buffy. After all Spike is living in her house and Wood needs access to Spike to kill him. I'm not exactly with Giles about no joking around because the world is going to end, but in a similar direction it is time that the Scoobies got down to serious business. Planning people! War council! Organize! Something, anything. Giles calling them 'children' is somewhat true. They've reverted a bit, and while seeming to have pulled togther, are actually going off in different directions. They need a center and neither Giles or Buffy are being that.Whatever Spike's transformation is it makes him seem more mature. ME should let him step up to the plate. He controlled a gang of minions, he has strategy and he was very commanding when he gave orders in season 2. It would also show his Watcher skills for a nice segue into a spin off.
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Post by Dalton on Jul 12, 2003 15:08:33 GMT -5
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Post by Dalton on Jul 12, 2003 15:10:29 GMT -5
I think Buffy is going to step up and get tough pretty soon. I agree that Spike is capable of leading, but he will always defer to the Slayer. Anya in particular is beginning to get on my nerves. Whining and insulting people seems to be her only remaining talent. Someone needs to tell her off, and though I'd like it to be Xander, it'll most likely be Buffy...which is cool with me as long as someone does it.
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