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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Nov 24, 2005 20:07:18 GMT -5
<snip> Was the flashback scene where AL shot the guy real, or her fantasy, because if she really did shoot someone in cold blood, why the Knox isn't she locked up? <snip> She would have to be caught to be locked up! A criminal shot down in the street outside a seedy bar? Who is going to look hard into that murder? He probably had other enemies that may have been suspected as well. Ana being a cop, I am sure she could easily enough get her hands on an untraceable gun. And she knows how to dispose of it. Hell, even the link between her and the guy she shot would be tenuous. She said it wasnt him when called to identify. So he was released and would only be a footnote in another case file . Why would htey come looking for her? No, I believe she could and probably did completely get away with it. As far as her own conscience? That's another story. But to be honest, I can't say that I wouldn't or at least couldn't do the same thing in her place. I know the man's guilty.. for sure? I know he is a remorseless (attempted) killer... I could pull the trigger. And that's without even being pregnant and losing that life. However, to join Rachael, perhaps not with her vehemance, but I don't liek Ana either. She is unlikeable and un-appealing to me. There is no spark there . She could be compared very much to Sawyer actually, but with Sawyer, you have a certain inherant warmth beneath his calloused exterior.. he is good inside and life has made him rude and self-serving. All I can see in Ana is a core of stodgy realism. Vlad I hope Ana Lucia isn't on the run after committing murder, because that would make her too much like Kate. I find AL interesting, and she'll change the group dynamic, which makes for a good story, but I don't like her. I don't think we're supposed to like her, at this point.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Nov 24, 2005 21:13:23 GMT -5
**nods** First her spirit leaves (Mr Eko), then her heart (Bernard), then finally her mind and it's rationalizations (Libby). Get rid of the witnesses (Jin and Michael) and she's just left with herself (Sayid). Really liked this!! I never really realized how nuts Ana-Lucia was. Liked how the two groups got integrated. Sayid meeting everybody, Mr. Eko meeting Jack and Locke, then Bernard and Libby meeting the group, then Jack meeting Ana-Lucia. In-group/out-group phenomena. Nice bringing back the golf game. Frontie life looks so luxurious now, after what we saw last week. I really like Ana-Lucia. I find it weird that I like her and not Buffy, since they are very similiar. I know, I know, my issues. This episode seemed to go really fast.
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Post by Sara on Nov 24, 2005 21:58:31 GMT -5
**nods** First her spirit leaves (Mr Eko), then her heart (Bernard), then finally her mind and it's rationalizations (Libby). Get rid of the witnesses (Jin and Michael) and she's just left with herself (Sayid). And she can't face that, so she slides into self destruct mode. Wants him to kill her. 'Cuz murder turned inward is . . . . Dude. Awesome point.
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Post by Squeemonster on Nov 24, 2005 22:02:33 GMT -5
**nods** First her spirit leaves (Mr Eko), then her heart (Bernard), then finally her mind and it's rationalizations (Libby). Get rid of the witnesses (Jin and Michael) and she's just left with herself (Sayid). And she can't face that, so she slides into self destruct mode. Wants him to kill her. 'Cuz murder turned inward is . . . . Dude. Awesome point. Yeah, it was. I meant to go back and comment on the awesomeness of it but I forgot.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Nov 24, 2005 22:42:46 GMT -5
**nods** First her spirit leaves (Mr Eko), then her heart (Bernard), then finally her mind and it's rationalizations (Libby). Get rid of the witnesses (Jin and Michael) and she's just left with herself (Sayid). Really liked this!! I never really realized how nuts Ana-Lucia was. Liked how the two groups got integrated. Sayid meeting everybody, Mr. Eko meeting Jack and Locke, then Bernard and Libby meeting the group, then Jack meeting Ana-Lucia. In-group/out-group phenomena. Nice bringing back the golf game. Frontie life looks so luxurious now, after what we saw last week. I really like Ana-Lucia. I find it weird that I like her and not Buffy, since they are very similiar. I know, I know, my issues. This episode seemed to go really fast. Also, I wanted to mentioned that I thought that the whole issue of Ana-Lucia shot Sayid's Shannon was dealt with (or started to be dealt with) *really* well.
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Post by shadowscast on Nov 25, 2005 0:15:16 GMT -5
Somebody here has been writing episode reviews, right? Where can I find them?
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Nov 25, 2005 0:27:28 GMT -5
Somebody here has been writing episode reviews, right? Where can I find them? www.soulfulspike.com/lost/lostdiscoveries.htmOn the main page, after you go through the gate etc, has links to all the reviews: Spike episodes of Buffy, Angel, Lost, Veronica Mars, Battlestar Galactica, and others.
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Post by shadowscast on Nov 25, 2005 0:40:35 GMT -5
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Post by shadowscast on Nov 25, 2005 1:01:44 GMT -5
And now I've read the most recent review, which is Sara's of "The Other 48 Days." Which, I realize, has its own thread, but I'm gonna respond to a bit of the review that wasn't particular to that episode.
I was interested in Sara's suggestion that "Lost" is structured more like a novel than any other TV series has been. I thought that was a neat idea, and am currently working it around in my head to see how well it fits. I do know there have been some episodes where I've been frustrated, in an "Argh, nothing happened! They didn't advance the plot!" kind of way, and it may take some time to decide if those episodes were really just laying groundwork for later revelations.
Part of me is just holding my breath, waiting to see if the show's writers will actually pull this off -- if the island's mysteries will all be resolved in ways that make sense, in the end.
PS: the review was extremely insightful and cool!
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Post by KMInfinity on Nov 25, 2005 13:32:00 GMT -5
IMO, this was one or the best episodes this year. I really like AnaLucia, and I didn't expect to do so, especially when I wasn't moved into her corner after last week's "The Other 48 Days."
And while I love nearly all of the characters (except Jack) and all of the actors (including Matthew Fox), I haven't been 'shipping any particular couple. But I am getting a really really strong chemistry/story vibe from Sayid and AnaLucia.
This is spec...not a spoiler... but even so.....
I know accepted wisdom is that there will be a romance quadrangle with Kate and AnaLucia and Sawyer and Jack.........I'm hoping the long term rez is with Sayid in the mix.
Everyone has commented on all the great moments in this ep...I'd add that scene with Michael and the Vincent...teared me up even before the tailees showed up with Jin.
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Post by leftylady on Nov 25, 2005 14:15:30 GMT -5
IMO, this was one or the best episodes this year. I really like AnaLucia, and I didn't expect to do so, especially when I wasn't moved into her corner after last week's "The Other 48 Days." And while I love nearly all of the characters (except Jack) and all of the actors (including Matthew Fox), I haven't been 'shipping any particular couple. But I am getting a really really strong chemistry/story vibe from Sayid and AnaLucia. This is spec...not a spoiler... but even so..... I know accepted wisdom is that there will be a romance quadrangle with Kate and AnaLucia and Sawyer and Jack.........I'm hoping the long term rez is with Sayid in the mix.Everyone has commented on all the great moments in this ep...I'd add that scene with Michael and the Vincent...teared me up even before the tailees showed up with Jin. Yes, Sayid & Ana Lucia really clicked, much more so than Sayid & Shannon. Although Ana & Sawyer play well off each other too. I too hope they are planning something in the romance for Sayid. Jack can't get all the attention. And neither can Kate!
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Post by leftylady on Nov 25, 2005 14:17:42 GMT -5
Haven't read most of the posts so and won't til later. Just wanted to say:
who was it that pegged Eko as a priest/shamman? Eko and Locke in the hatch - mirror images down to the color of the clothing. One light, one dark!
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Post by Lola m on Nov 25, 2005 14:59:24 GMT -5
Yeah, I thought Libby's comment was... I dunno. I'm not saying I approve of how Ana's behaving, but I think Libby hit a little below the belt with that one. See, I didn't. She was presenting her opinion, and the evidence she had to back it up. Worse, though, is her serious impulse control problem. Yes, I know, I'm coming off as the unsympathetic hardass. Well, yeah, on some level, I am. I understand and feel for the lost baby. I would have had the impulse to commit murder myself. I wouldn't have done it, though. Partly because I'm not entrusted by my society with a gun and the training to use it - meaning that Ana Lucia should be (IMO) better at controlling her impulses, or she shouldn't be a cop. And I just can't forgive the cold-blooded murder. No matter the provocation. Not this week. Give her a few months to stop acting like a total paranoid raving loony, and we'll talk. Oh, I can't condone cold-blooded murder either. It certainly gives her and Sawyer more in common than they think, doesn't it?
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Post by Lola m on Nov 25, 2005 15:04:06 GMT -5
She would have to be caught to be locked up! A criminal shot down in the street outside a seedy bar? Who is going to look hard into that murder? He probably had other enemies that may have been suspected as well. Ana being a cop, I am sure she could easily enough get her hands on an untraceable gun. And she knows how to dispose of it. Hell, even the link between her and the guy she shot would be tenuous. She said it wasnt him when called to identify. So he was released and would only be a footnote in another case file . Why would htey come looking for her? No, I believe she could and probably did completely get away with it. As far as her own conscience? That's another story. But to be honest, I can't say that I wouldn't or at least couldn't do the same thing in her place. I know the man's guilty.. for sure? I know he is a remorseless (attempted) killer... I could pull the trigger. And that's without even being pregnant and losing that life. However, to join Rachael, perhaps not with her vehemance, but I don't liek Ana either. She is unlikeable and un-appealing to me. There is no spark there . She could be compared very much to Sawyer actually, but with Sawyer, you have a certain inherant warmth beneath his calloused exterior.. he is good inside and life has made him rude and self-serving. All I can see in Ana is a core of stodgy realism. Vlad It's funny, 'cause I see a lot more warmth in Ana Lucia than I ever have in Sawyer (except perhaps in his last conversation with Jack, when he let Jack know his dad had been proud of him). Hell, I thought she and Jack set off more sparks in a five-minute conversation than Kate and Jack did all of last season. I mean, consider Sawyer's history on the island--he hoarded supplies, some of which were kind of important. He let Jack and Sayid continue to believe he had Shannon's inhaler out of some whacked-out self-destructive impulse--if he'd at least tried to convince them he didn't have the medicine, there's a chance (albeit most likely a small one) that Jack, at the very least, might have started trying to investigate other options (and what if the time Jack and Sayid wasted on Sawyer ended up costing Shannon her life?). Sawyer intentionally kept the news that Jack was trapped in a cave-in from Kate, solely because he was jealous. Save giving Hurley the passenger manifest, I'm hard-pressed to think of a time when Sawyer did something for another castaway that didn't ultimately benefit himself. Then there's the other interesting commonality Sawyer and Anna share--they've both shot someone in cold blood. However, in Sawyer's case the man he intended to shoot was someone who had not, in fact, done him any physical harm; the original Sawyer essentially set a chain of events into motion--and I'm thinking that if our Sawyer's dad was unstable enough to commit murder/suicide in the first place, then if the thing with Sawyer One hadn't happened some other misstep on the mother's part would still have eventually triggered that same reaction. Worse, Sawyer didn't even kill the man he intended to, but someone who had never done Sawyer any ill at all. Ana Lucia's victim? He used her moment of hesitation and idealism (she was, after all, willing to give him the benefit of the doubt) to shoot her four times with bullets designed to inflict the most damage possible in a person's flesh. He took the life of an innocent living being, albeit unknowingly. And, as lesser injuries go, I'd wager losing the baby also cost Ana Lucia her relationship with the baby's father. Unlike with Sawyer, Ana knew indisputably that she had the right guy--a guy who'd grievously injured her on just about every level. Personally, I think finding out about the circumstances of Ana's shooting casts every single one of her actions on the island--particularly her treatment of Nathan--in an entirely new light. Back in the real world she let her guard down, gave someone the benefit of the doubt, and it cost her baby its life. Then, when her guard was down again, someone else's kids were stolen right out from under her nose. So there was no way on God's green earth she was going to let her "weakness," cause I'm betting that's what she thinks of it as, cost any more innocent lives--and became the person we now know. **nods, nods, nods** I think the episode really drove home to us the similarites between her and Sawyer. I mean, yes, on the surface, we see how she and Sayid have things in common. But the fact that the parallel story is Sawyer fighting for his life I think also means we are meant to see a link between Ana Lucia and him as well.
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Post by Matthew on Nov 25, 2005 15:05:00 GMT -5
See, I didn't. She was presenting her opinion, and the evidence she had to back it up. Worse, though, is her serious impulse control problem. Yes, I know, I'm coming off as the unsympathetic hardass. Well, yeah, on some level, I am. I understand and feel for the lost baby. I would have had the impulse to commit murder myself. I wouldn't have done it, though. Partly because I'm not entrusted by my society with a gun and the training to use it - meaning that Ana Lucia should be (IMO) better at controlling her impulses, or she shouldn't be a cop. And I just can't forgive the cold-blooded murder. No matter the provocation. Not this week. Give her a few months to stop acting like a total paranoid raving loony, and we'll talk. Oh, I can't condone cold-blooded murder either. It certainly gives her and Sawyer more in common than they think, doesn't it? Call me barbaric, but I think that what she did to him fits nicely in with the Southern legal defense of "He needed killin'." I don't classify what she did as "murder" as much as "personally administered justice" Scary thing is if everyone practiced that kind of justice, this culture would sorta spiral out of control real quick. Cold-blooded as hell of her to set him up so she could shoot him herself, but it's quite possible that the gunshot damage not only killed her unborn child, but left her barren, as well: another order of magnitude of pain. Which would explain why she feels dead.
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