|
Post by Dalton on Jul 17, 2003 13:48:02 GMT -5
Spring, these are the exact quotes that led me to speculate further on the whole Spike vamps Buffy theory I was ranting about in the Episodes thread. But you probably figured that out already.
Athene V
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Jul 17, 2003 13:48:40 GMT -5
Athene - I did wonder about whether what you were saying was related to this. Anything is possible, but I wouldn't put any money on the Buffy-vamped thing . . . it doesn't fit with the build up (or rather, I should say, I can't see how it fits). I keep thinking I should be able to figure it out, because you know they've been laying out the clues left and right about what's going to happen . . . The only thing I feel sure about is that Spike is going to be a major player in defeating the Big Bad. This has been set up and foreshadowed many different ways. It will involve him either making a huge sacrifice (his soul, his life, Buffy . . .) or being willing to sacrifice his life but somehow surviving (ala Xander last season). But its going to be bigger than just Spike . . . and it's going to hurt. I doubt I'll be angry, no matter what happens. I mean, angry is kinda pointless for me. I have no control; I have to accept what happens and deal with it. Well, I also feel sure it is going to be one hell of a ride. I think we're going to have to hang on really tight, and take the "Spike as he gets his head cracked through the subway car window approach" - you know scream with the pain, and the joy of the pain, just let it fly. AN ASIDE: For good article about the Spuffy Season 6 sex, see this web address that Bilal D posted in the episode board: archive.salon.com/sex/feature/2001/11/28/buffy/ Spring Summers
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Jul 17, 2003 13:49:21 GMT -5
Diane, I know I have been rather vocal on the matter of continuity or lack thereof and I want to briefly explain why what doesn't bother many others does bother me. And the key word in that preceding sentence is "bother", by the way.
At least 75% of the time I spend on the ScoopMe Buffy boards is time stolen (the key word in this sentence being "stolen") from work. The rest of my time here is found by coming into work early, staying late after work and on the occasional weekend (thank TPTB I have keys to the office). And words don't come easily to me so that means that my posts can often eat up a significant amount of my time. For this reason the comments I do take the time to post are about issues that really matter to me. That's why I haven't participated in the Nerds topics because I just don't have the time to play, not because I don't think it would be fun. There isn't enough time for me to keep up with the discussions strictly about the show and Spike let alone find something new to distract me from my work. Sometimes I feel as if I'm playing Russian Roulette with my job.
There is a big difference between indulging in an amusing game of scrutinizing a television show or movie to identify every continuity errors you can find and having your enjoyment of a favorite show disturbed by a continuity error that *finds you*. In the first instance you're actively looking for errors. In the second instance the error jumps out unexpectedly and uninvited, and at least temporarily distracts you from your from your immersion in the story. And when this happens to me then I am bothered. And I post about whatever bothers me and whatever moves me the most.
You said:
"We're worried if the appearance of the duster in the school basement is believable...while we're talking about a duster that belongs to...a vampire?"
We all need to engage our suspension of disbelief to accept the fantastical premise of BtVS in the first place. Vampires exist in the BuffyVerse so the fact that the duster belongs to one is entirely beside the point. It's a break down in the logic that has been established for the fiction that is liable to disturb me, not that the fiction is illogical in the real world. Remember how many people were upset about the whole vampire drowning torture issue? If someone has enjoyed a show and another person subsequently points out a continuity error that the first person hadn't even noticed then obviously for that first person the error was no big deal. But for the one who's enjoyment of the show actually was marred by that error because it interrupted his or her's suspension of disbelief it was a big deal and is comment worthy in this forum.
I guess I'm just saying that I don't think it's entirely fair for someone to invalidate another person's issues because that issue is not shared by him or her.
deborah cohen
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Jul 17, 2003 13:50:02 GMT -5
Diane, I hadn't read your message 420 when I responded to your post 419.
Sorry.
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Jul 17, 2003 13:50:40 GMT -5
Miss P, you are totally right about the SIT storyline. It just seems to clutter things up rather than give us stuff we really want to see. I completely agree that Spike and the rest of the group spending more time discussing his redemption would've been good to see. A Hell of a lot better than watching Kennedy do anything. I admit that I dig Andrew, and Principal Wood has been terrific. We know, however, that Faith is coming soon. How many more characters can they throw at us before main characters just get lost in the shuffle?
Rob Sorenson
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Jul 17, 2003 13:51:23 GMT -5
Thank you. Let's all hear it for the underdog. :-)
Rob Sorenson
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Jul 17, 2003 13:52:05 GMT -5
As I've said many times--and I can't say it enough--the quality of writing here is astonishing in comparison to the majority of message boards I've visited. I wish we had all found each other sooner. :-(
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Jul 17, 2003 13:52:52 GMT -5
I find it very hard to talk about Buffy philosophically after this episode. The writers don't seem content to gray things up anymore, now they want everything completely white and completely black at the same time. It's all so...conflicting. Buffy pushing everyone's buttons, basically as much as telling Willow and Spike to embrace their darker sides, but then rejecting the demon power offered to her. It's like Buffy somehow thinks the "you can't fight evil with evil" bit only applies to her specifically, "everyone else, break out your darkest aspects and help me kick some first ass". But perhaps it's my error in thinking that Willow and Spike's power lies in their darkness. It certainly has in the past, but whose to say they can't find some other wellspring of power within themselves. This should certainly be true of Willow; looking at how powerful the Coven across the pond made Giles, I am sure the much more experienced Willow could use the same sort of positive energies. But what about Spike. Yes it's great seeing him all Big Bad again, but is a demon embracing a love for violence really a good thing. Maybe it is.
The damnedest part about it is not knowing where ME stands on certain moral and philosophical issues. If I did then I could say "It will turn out like this, becuase X leads to darkness and Y is great stuff." But I just don't see any sort of coherent theme developing for this season, except for perhaps "It's about power." I guess I just expected ME to say something a bit more specifc about power. Instead the message seems to be "Well, Power is this thing." I don't know. I dont know anything anymore. I can handle gray, I can't handle Buffy being right, and wrong, but still right. Buffy has to be wrong about something right? "You can't fight evil with evil", but she wants the old Spike. It's not that that's what's on screen that gets to me, it's that the writers seem to think she's right on both accounts and that's ok.
Joshua Adams
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Jul 17, 2003 13:53:43 GMT -5
Anything for you, Spring. I accept my penance (conspicuously not retracting mu song(s), however!).
Nan Dibble
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Jul 17, 2003 13:55:20 GMT -5
Joshua-
I am right there with you as far as being confused about the path the show is taking this season.
I am assuming that the writers are suggesting that Buffy is right to reject the power bestowed by virtual rape of a young girl (no matter the nobility of intention) and that the injnction by the rather obnoxiously vehement Buffy to her "soldiers" is meant to inspire them to push past the anger and reclaim the force of their own power.
It is time for them to practice being good and fighting for good b/c it is important to them and not just b/c they want to be a part of the the Scooby Gang and or sleep with some of them.
I surmise that the intent is to motivate them to be outraged w/o being enraged and that is a moral distinction that they are all struggling to maintain. Or not.
Edited By ellie jason at 2/20/2003 6:06:00 PM.
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Jul 17, 2003 13:55:59 GMT -5
Ellie said: I surmise that the intent is to motivate them to be outraged w/o being enraged and that is a moral distinction that they are all struggling to maintain. Or not.
Now *I'm* confused!
Nan Dibble
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Jul 17, 2003 13:56:39 GMT -5
I have been very mournful of late regarding the potential ending of the show and the loss of these boards.
I agree that this misc posting is 'friendlier" thatn the general episode boards. I sense a kind of unruly tension and errant disregard of finer points of etiquette that tends to dissolve over here in the general air of merriment and intellectual fun and gamesmanship practiced by those willing to share their silliness and passions.
Oh- do check out Slayage board for the Feb 16 link to mary F Pols ( Contra Costa Times critic) who bemoans the future loss of just such an internet support group of Buffy adoristas.
Edited By ellie jason at 2/20/2003 6:12:00 PM.
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Jul 17, 2003 13:57:11 GMT -5
Well, if I don't have thought of BtVS distracting me, I have the lot of you introducing thought provoking subjects about why this season makes us so sad.
I must admit that at the end of each episode I think "Well here we are one episode nearer the end." Even worse, I find myself checking the clock each time there is a commercial break to see how much of the episode is left and often think, " They've only got 15 minutes to wrap this story line up." So yes, I too am dreading the end of Buffy. (I have always prdicted a dire conclusion too.) I am also a bit sour about it too, maybe a bit blue, but not depressed (yet.) (The end of Roswell hit me a little hard too. I miss the intrigue they had.)
In any event, I have to head out. David Suzuki is giving a lecture here tonight, and that man is probably the reason I got into sciences in the first place.
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Jul 17, 2003 13:57:57 GMT -5
Hail Nan- let me explain- I have been trying to think this out (this week in particular with my daughter who participated in the protest march). I guess I feel that anger (being enraged) can only take one so far- it bogs one down in personal issues and can lead to obliterating more than the original target> whereas for me the idea of outrage suggests a sense of burning indignation that forces one to project an outward momentum and a more necessary cooling down that allows thought and a refining of techniques calculated to achieve attaining the destruction of abhorrent practices. I have not checked my dictionary- so I am not wedded to this distinction if I am misusing the 2 words.
ellie jason
|
|
|
Post by Dalton on Jul 17, 2003 13:58:34 GMT -5
That's what I would think too. Your points are exactly what I would think would be what they are going for, but after Get It Done I just don't know. Spike is definitely not headed towards the moral indignation against evil that you speak of. Which really makes me question what the point of giving him the soul was. His entire story arc this season would have been just as strong without the soul if they don't have any intention of making fight evil becuase he is good. Instead Buffy, and seemingly the writers no longer think that's a neccesary part of the equation. And yet Buffy rejects the power offered her, and then thinks it's a mistake. With the likeliest spin off being a Faith based one, its seems to me as if ME is saying screw goodness, just get the job done. Much to my situational ethicist's mind's suprise, I am not as comfortable with that as I would have thought. Of course they may turn it all around. Either way it should at least be entertaining to watch; this episode is still one of my favorite this season. I would kind of like to see a Spring Summers Analysis for this episode. There may be clues I am overlooking.
Joshua Adams
|
|