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Post by Pixi on Oct 5, 2006 8:37:22 GMT -5
OK. So Sawyer and Kate are warming up here - I wonder when the mating in captivity will start in earnest? Of course, that has to be the ultimate plan! It's like that Star Trek episode! "With the female now properly prepared . . . " Heee - nice. I do think Lilly has more chemistry with Holloway than Fox so I think that would be a better hookup. Okay - I haven't been a big fan of the Lost train for awhile. I enjoy it but I also find it very draggy at times. And to be honest - the best part of this episode was the first 3 minutes. After that I felt it went downhill fast. My boss - who has adored Lost in the past - was very meh this morning. His reaction - didn't like it much, don't see the show going on much longer. I disagree with that because I'm sure it will continue to have huge ratings for at least another couple of years. Jack plus flashbacks = boring. On TWOP they are saying re connections: The Nurse talking to Jack mid-way through was the same Nurse who told Locke that the man he gave his kidney to already checked out and the dude in the hospital bed in Jack's flashback was beardy Zeke. I never catch those kinds of things so just thought I'd put this out there if it wasn't mentioned. (Have to get to work, can't finish reading entire thread) Things that were good: Creepy Benry and his next two weeks comment. The opening. The bears did it quicker remark.
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Post by Sara on Oct 5, 2006 8:44:22 GMT -5
I don't like the way she talks to Jack. I just don't like it. She talks to him like he's a child, or . . . she just has this whole "I'm talking down to you," thing going on. She talked to him just like his daddy always talked down to him. She was coached to do it that way, I think, and it seemed to me that she was afraid to fail in her duties. That is so weird. Thinking back on the episode, I can completely understand why folks heard the way Juliet was talking to Jack as talking down to him. But as I watched I personally didn't interpret it that way--at all. There was a bit of the therapist talking to a patient vibe for me a couple of times, but mostly I just heard... I dunno, compassion? A desire to convey her empathy, maybe even genuinely win his trust, rather than be forced to do what she ultimately did--inform him she already knew everything about him anyway? Because I suspect that after Benry witnessed Jack's escape attempt he told Juliet to stop screwing around and finish her assignment, which is when the dossier came out and her entire demeanor changed. Until, that is, Jack asked if she really knew everything about his friends and family. In fact, I wonder if what his question would be was the "true" test they were giving him--if he asked something self-serving (ie "who was Sara sleeping with") he'd fail, but asking an ultiimately selfless question ("is she happy?") meant he passed. At any rate, I think Juliet suspected the question Jack was struggling with the desire to ask, and had a lot of compassion for that struggle But I really like the actress playing Juliet, so I could be trying to see the best in the character because of it.
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Post by Sara on Oct 5, 2006 8:57:31 GMT -5
And from the invaluable Sledgeweb:
When Locke brought Benry a book to read last season, Benry's response was: "What, you don't have any Stephen King?"
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Post by rich on Oct 5, 2006 10:38:36 GMT -5
So, what is Jack's plan exactly?
Jack, Kate, and Sawyer walked deliberately into the Other's trap. What were they thinking? "Let's beat their fists into submission with our faces?"
Jack seems on the road to being compromised. Or is he just pretending?
Color me confused.
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Post by Vlad on Oct 5, 2006 11:56:01 GMT -5
Anyone see or hear the title of that Stephen King novel? Great opening. They were right - the first three minutes kicked butt. And anyone else sick to death of that Audrey Hepburn ad? I mean I love her but they play this nonstop. Hey! You're here in real time! Yeah- totally sick of the skinny black jean commercial, but a girl's gotta dance. For the record, I like that commercial. What's not to like? Audrey meet AC/DC. Angus, meet Audrey! I have even stopped fast forwarding to point it out to others that may have not seen it. Tho' I will admit to the fact it is getting overplayed now. Vlad
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Post by Lola m on Oct 5, 2006 12:09:42 GMT -5
Speaking of the book, did anyone catch which King novel it was? 'Cuz books have been clues in previous seasons. I've been rewinding that bit of scene, but I can't see the title very clearly. It looks like a half of a woman's face on the cover, and the cover is red and black with the title in a yellow color off to the right side and centered. Juliet mentioned that she thought free will still existed on... and then the earthquake started. They all seemed to spring into action after that, like it had happened before and they were supposed to follow a specific course of action. Maybe they don't get fed unless they push certain buttons, too. Ooooooooh, clever idea!!!
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Post by Lola m on Oct 5, 2006 12:12:06 GMT -5
Also, we don't know how far Benry, Hen, Ben!not!Henry is controlling the group. Maybe she would be in danger herself if she doesn't play along. I don't like the way she talks to Jack. I just don't like it. She talks to him like he's a child, or . . . she just has this whole "I'm talking down to you," thing going on. **nods vigourously** That's exactly what I find annoying. She's trying to come off all reasonable and "why are you being so oddly uncooperative as we hold you prisoner in a cell with no explanation?". I'd almost prefer straightforward harsh "you're a prisoner" treatment. Closer, actually, to how they treated Benry when they had him. Except without the torture stuff.
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Post by Lola m on Oct 5, 2006 12:13:29 GMT -5
So what Hepburn movie is that dance sequence from, anyway? Julia, and why was there an explosion before the plane broke up? Is it from Daddy Long Legs? And was the explosion just the magnetic overload thingee happening when Desmond didn't push the button? Or something more . . . ?
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Post by Lola m on Oct 5, 2006 12:14:38 GMT -5
Hey, Karl could have been one of the twelve that got kidnapped when The Others raided the Tailenders. Watching over: Uh, how on earth could Goodwin make it to where the plane's tail hit in an hour? Lack of communication between the fx people and the script writers? Or did Goodwin have a subway? I vote for some type of underground tunnels/transportation system/subway thingee. But that's just 'cuz I think it would be cool.
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Post by Lola m on Oct 5, 2006 12:16:35 GMT -5
"You people are just whatever is left over" - from the Dharma thingee. Hmmmmmmm. And then she's taunting Jack with how connected they are to the "real world". Hmmmmmmm. Do I buy either of those scenarios? Not necessarily. OK, this Julia woman is really annoying. And, I can see she doesn't want to do what she's doing, 'cuz she obviously don't like Ben!not!Henry. But still. Annoying. I know Jack is all dehydrated and beat down and so on, plus he's got the fact that he is insane-o about the ex-wife and all. But still, I don't think I'd have been acting like that or asking those questions. I'd be all "what do you guys want? what's happening? where's the folks I came with?" Oh, and "why didn't you try to come to the aid of peope whose plane crashed"? Heeeeeeeee, on Sawyer figuring out how to get the food, and the bears did it "in 2 hours". I loved his "how many of them were there"? ;D ;D Juliette, OK? I have enough trouble in the Nip/Tuck discussions! Also, do you think the kid is D'elenn's son? Julia, easily confused. I waffle between whether the kid is really a scared and beaten prisoner or just a ploy / plant / mind game.
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Post by Lola m on Oct 5, 2006 12:18:10 GMT -5
You know, if Jack had Christopher Pike on speed-dial, he could get out of this. Yes!! That's exactly the ep I was thinking about~ I'm betting we'll have split eps again for a while. Some bits concentrating on the captured folk and the Others and some bits back with "our guys".
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Post by Lola m on Oct 5, 2006 12:19:16 GMT -5
My, that's a whole LOT of water, innit? Julia, So, they obviously don't want Jack and Sawyer and Kate dead right away, then Oh, no. They want to play with them / mess with their heads / experiment on them.
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Post by Lola m on Oct 5, 2006 12:26:23 GMT -5
More specifically, how about this: The island is Shambala, thus accounting for the sudden healing phenomenon. Plus, if no one gets any older, that'd account for why the Others seem to think they've been there so long, while they have no visible oldsters (or youngsters) among them. The Dharma Initiative knew about Shambala (hell, their name goes right along with the hypothesis) and set up a research station on the island. There's even some good logic to wanting to do research on and in Shambala. Maybe they even started out with the good intention of saving the world by learning from the mysteries of Shambala. But...there was more to it than they accounted for, and their experiments didn't go as planned, 'cause the island had ideas of its own. Or some human agency within the Dharma initiative went wiggy megalomaniacal and started trying to use the island for nefarious purposes, and it backfired. Things are now Not As They Should Be on the island. Ahem. Going to bed now. I like it. Basically, the island has it's own way of doing things and the Dharma people were/are (foolishly) trying to use it for their own gig until it all went Horribly Wrong. It fits things nicely, including the four toed foot - with its hints at the Island's more . . . interesting past.
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Post by Lola m on Oct 5, 2006 12:28:21 GMT -5
Not going to read, just going to post a couple of thoughts and come back later because it's too early in the morning. So if I get it all wrong, or state the obvious, or repeat what's already been said... Tough. This didn't occur to me later, but if I remember rightly, the opening of this episode parallelled the opening of last season's first episode - Desmond puts on his music and goes through his morning routine, exercising, preparing food and so on. So this one starts with "Juliette" putting on her music, doing some sort of stretching, and preparing charcoal muffins. The Others live in Pleasantville. So Sawyer and Kate are bears in training. I think they broke Jack. Henry-Ben does have a rather rodential cast to his features. I could almost see his whiskers twitching, at the end. The rats are running the lab, it appears. #claps# to all of this!! **whiskers twitch - heeee**
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Post by Lola m on Oct 5, 2006 12:30:08 GMT -5
Enjoyed the episode. Just two additional thoughts: Stephen King is a HUGE fan of the show--he writes about it all the time in his Entertainment Weekly column. It could be a shout-out to him...and he's probably thrilled about it. I do think that the Others are performing SOME type of experiments on the plane crash victims, and I think they've finally "progressed" Jack, yes. See, I really like the flashbacks, and how they seem to match the action. But I think we might be seeing, in a weird way, how the others are using the knowledge they have of the passengers' pasts to perform the experiments on them, to "fix" them. (For example, we see flashbacks to Sawyer killing the wrong "Sawyer," at the same time the Others may be performing experiments on him that cause him to hear the man's voice) Perhaps it's most interesting that they seemed to have first succeeded with the "fixer" himself. I thought the flashbacks this week were particularly strong and sad, especially the part where Christian went back to drinking. Jack seems to have reached some kind of breakthrough...so I wonder if the former Dharma people will be approaching him differently from now on...what they'll want with him NOW. And I'm still not convinced that Christian doesn't have something to do with them, lol. Not after the big dossier on Jack and daddy's voice through the intercom. Ooooh, I like the idea of the flashbacks being linked to the Other's experimentation . . . Hmmmmmm. I'm going to mull on this for a while. Very interesting idea!
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