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Post by rich on Oct 5, 2006 19:56:11 GMT -5
Do too! They both have light-colored hair, uh, two eyes, um, one nose, ah, two cheeks, two lips, a neck.... Granted, they aren't all exactly the same size or shape, but they're in the same general location! Brad Pitt and I are twins for these very reasons.
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 5, 2006 20:53:03 GMT -5
Do too! They both have light-colored hair, uh, two eyes, um, one nose, ah, two cheeks, two lips, a neck.... Granted, they aren't all exactly the same size or shape, but they're in the same general location! Brad Pitt and I are twins for these very reasons. #rofl1#
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Post by Lola m on Oct 6, 2006 12:03:10 GMT -5
Me neither: Do too! They both have light-colored hair, uh, two eyes, um, one nose, ah, two cheeks, two lips, a neck.... Granted, they aren't all exactly the same size or shape, but they're in the same general location! Actually, I do find them confusable - one of the first notes I jotted down when first seeing Juliette in the kitchen was "is that Jack's wife?". But that's because I have a HUGE difficulty keeping faces and names straight. I'm actually kind of hopeless with it. Especially with those folks who have no big "distinguishing feature" about them. In other words, if someone is not young or old, not very tall or very short, not very skinny or very fat, are generally "average/good/usual/bland" looking, and don't have some prominant scar or mole or other facial feature? I may be totally lost for days, weeks or even months on keeping them separate from anyone else that looks even vaguely like them. It's way worse with TV shows or films, but I even struggle with RL 3d people sometimes. But that's just me. ;D
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Post by Matthew on Oct 6, 2006 12:55:18 GMT -5
Do too! They both have light-colored hair, uh, two eyes, um, one nose, ah, two cheeks, two lips, a neck.... Granted, they aren't all exactly the same size or shape, but they're in the same general location! Actually, I do find them confusable - one of the first notes I jotted down when first seeing Juliette in the kitchen was "is that Jack's wife?". But that's because I have a HUGE difficulty keeping faces and names straight. I'm actually kind of hopeless with it. Especially with those folks who have no big "distinguishing feature" about them. In other words, if someone is not young or old, not very tall or very short, not very skinny or very fat, are generally "average/good/usual/bland" looking, and don't have some prominant scar or mole or other facial feature? I may be totally lost for days, weeks or even months on keeping them separate from anyone else that looks even vaguely like them. It's way worse with TV shows or films, but I even struggle with RL 3d people sometimes. But that's just me. ;D Oh, no, it's not just you. I worked out last night that I have my mom's memory for names, and my dad's memory for faces: which pretty much means I'm screwed.
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Post by Karen on Oct 7, 2006 9:27:47 GMT -5
She talked to him just like his daddy always talked down to him. She was coached to do it that way, I think, and it seemed to me that she was afraid to fail in her duties. That is so weird. Thinking back on the episode, I can completely understand why folks heard the way Juliet was talking to Jack as talking down to him. But as I watched I personally didn't interpret it that way--at all. There was a bit of the therapist talking to a patient vibe for me a couple of times, but mostly I just heard... I dunno, compassion? A desire to convey her empathy, maybe even genuinely win his trust, rather than be forced to do what she ultimately did--inform him she already knew everything about him anyway? Because I suspect that after Benry witnessed Jack's escape attempt he told Juliet to stop screwing around and finish her assignment, which is when the dossier came out and her entire demeanor changed. Until, that is, Jack asked if she really knew everything about his friends and family. In fact, I wonder if what his question would be was the "true" test they were giving him--if he asked something self-serving (ie "who was Sara sleeping with") he'd fail, but asking an ultiimately selfless question ("is she happy?") meant he passed. At any rate, I think Juliet suspected the question Jack was struggling with the desire to ask, and had a lot of compassion for that struggle But I really like the actress playing Juliet, so I could be trying to see the best in the character because of it. I heard and saw the compassion she had for Jack, too, but it didn't stop her from being hard-nosed with him. Very like the way we saw Jack's dad be hard-nosed to him on occasion. Which, btw, was always in Jack's point of view, which might have been a bit skewed in perception. I also saw the ... I don't know if it is fear, exactly, but something in her demeanor that made me think she had to succeed at breaking Jack, no matter her personal feelings, or else suffer repercussions. ETA: I think Juliet and Sarah look a lot alike, and their mannerisms are similar. Both are soft-spoken and kind.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Oct 7, 2006 12:35:29 GMT -5
Wow, short previouslies, considering. Similar opening to season 2. Oh it's Penny? Oh, nope. Why is this chick so upset? So, not the Make Your Own Kind of Music? But a similar theme and similarly peppy. There's no metaphor. Discussion of literature and sci-fi. Metacommentary? Julie. Earthquake, so this California? Or a plane explosion? Ooh, "Henry!!" The plane explosion! This is the island? OMFG!!! These look like normal people! Why? See this is why they should have made a better attempt to explore the island fully. Jeez. The Other's weren't expecting the plane crash, but they had a contingency plane for such occassions. Moonlight Sonata Again. So was it possible that Sayid's radio was picking up on The Other's transmissions Jack. Stalking his ex. Jack in captivity. So they want Kate to be fresh, but they don't give a shit about Sawyer and Jack. They injected her with something? Or took a blood sample? This looks like a zoo. Don't trust the "fellow prisoner" Sawyer. A crappy zoo. A skinner box? Um, OK then. Too many blond chicks! My poor brain! So, divorce proceedings. Why does Kate get all the shower scenes anyway? They gave her a sun dress? The Others can't really be surprised by the Losties WTF reactions, right? Because they're sure acting like it. So, the Losties really are just interested in the Jack/Kate/Sawyer triangle. 2 weeks?!? ObsessedJack Sarah was sleeping with Jack's dad? EEEEWWWWWWWW!!! Let it go, Jack. Except here his obsessive nature may actually be a saving grace. Is that a sound board? Lady, I think Jack would trust you more if you started giving him information. I know I would. Oh, an AA meeting. Fat lot of good that did. I don't suppose that you could have been a bit more specific about *why* Jack shouldn't open the door. Rats, another button. about Sawyer's success with the Skinner box. Now this is turning into Planet of the Apes. Bears. As in polar bears? Damn, that's a good catch. Ah, an aquarium. Sharks and dolphins. Underwater. Hydra So, The Others ARE leftover from DHARMA! They know who Jack is. Of course. Jack did med school in 3 years? Dayum! How did they get all that info? Did they plan the plane crash or not? Or did they get all that after the fact? He got arrested for disturbing the AA meeting? So Jack "made" his dad fall off the wagon? And Sarah *wasn't* sleeping with his dad? Phew, that's a relief. Now you have something to fix. Stockholm Syndrome? "Henry Gale's" real name is Ben!!!!! One!! One answer, ah ah ah!!!!! Do we have a brain goes explodey icon? Because I need one.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Oct 7, 2006 12:37:21 GMT -5
Anyone see or hear the title of that Stephen King novel? Great opening. They were right - the first three minutes kicked butt. And anyone else sick to death of that Audrey Hepburn ad? I mean I love her but they play this nonstop. Yes. I find her best in smaller doses. And don't you think she'd be turning in her grave right now if she knew?
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Oct 7, 2006 12:45:39 GMT -5
Back to the eyeball openers - yay! And Petula - double yay!! Oooh, they have all the comforts of modern life in their little Other Island village - Stephen King book club reading and all. Plus, some of them (like Blonde woman) don't like not!Henry. So, Jack and Sawyer are put in animal experiment labs or zoo cages. Each are given someone to "interact" with (someone apparently sympathetic, up to a point). And Kate is symbolically stripped, dressed up all "pretty" "like a lady" "civilised", so they can play a different kind of mind game with her. I don't like these new "civilised" Others any more than I did the old pretend-scruffy ones. I don't care how they humanize them or give us their side of the story. Any group, or leader of a group, that responded that way to a plane crash? Are not good. So there! ;D Right there with you. ;D And I was wondering why they chose those three people to have first contact with our Losties. Jack--with woman/blondie woman/wife issues meets "nice" and "comforting blonde woman; Kate--with daddy issues meets older, "fatherly"-like pirate-wannabe man; and Sawyer, with his issues of his childhood, meets young-looking boy. Hmmm. Of course, I'm probably full of it. Not at all; I think you're actually on to something.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Oct 7, 2006 13:04:32 GMT -5
So, what is Jack's plan exactly? Jack, Kate, and Sawyer walked deliberately into the Other's trap. What were they thinking? "Let's beat their fists into submission with our faces?" Jack seems on the road to being compromised. Or is he just pretending? Color me confused. That's a good point. I looked to me at the end of the finale last year that Kate was signaling Jack before they put the bag back over her head.
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Post by SpringSummers on Oct 7, 2006 15:42:53 GMT -5
I also did not think Sara was sleeping with Jack's Dad. I thought this was just a creation of Jack's fevered brain.
Jack isn't going to give in to his captors, not really.
But by the time they escape, Kate & Sawyer will probably already be making wild monkey love in their cages.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Oct 7, 2006 17:48:05 GMT -5
That is so weird. Thinking back on the episode, I can completely understand why folks heard the way Juliet was talking to Jack as talking down to him. But as I watched I personally didn't interpret it that way--at all. There was a bit of the therapist talking to a patient vibe for me a couple of times, but mostly I just heard... I dunno, compassion? A desire to convey her empathy, maybe even genuinely win his trust, rather than be forced to do what she ultimately did--inform him she already knew everything about him anyway? Because I suspect that after Benry witnessed Jack's escape attempt he told Juliet to stop screwing around and finish her assignment, which is when the dossier came out and her entire demeanor changed. Until, that is, Jack asked if she really knew everything about his friends and family. In fact, I wonder if what his question would be was the "true" test they were giving him--if he asked something self-serving (ie "who was Sara sleeping with") he'd fail, but asking an ultiimately selfless question ("is she happy?") meant he passed. At any rate, I think Juliet suspected the question Jack was struggling with the desire to ask, and had a lot of compassion for that struggle But I really like the actress playing Juliet, so I could be trying to see the best in the character because of it. I heard and saw the compassion she had for Jack, too, but it didn't stop her from being hard-nosed with him. Very like the way we saw Jack's dad be hard-nosed to him on occasion. Which, btw, was always in Jack's point of view, which might have been a bit skewed in perception. I also saw the ... I don't know if it is fear, exactly, but something in her demeanor that made me think she had to succeed at breaking Jack, no matter her personal feelings, or else suffer repercussions. ETA: I think Juliet and Sarah look a lot alike, and their mannerisms are similar. Both are soft-spoken and kind.Here's a thought - perhaps the resemblance to Sarah is why The Others chose Juliet to work on Jack. By the way, whatever happened to the Clan of the Teddy Bear? Do you think we'll ever find out, or have they just been Chris Carter-ed (I don't know what to do with that loose thread, so we'll pretend it doesn't exist)?
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Post by Sara on Oct 7, 2006 21:26:07 GMT -5
Rewatched the episode this morning, and this time was struck by a parallel between something we hear Juliet say to Jack and what Sarah tells him outside the police station. Jack asks Juliet if they (ie herself and the Others) were what remained of the Dharma Initiative's work on the island. She told him that had been over for a while, and then said "It doesn't matter who we were; it only matters who we are." And it's only a few minutes after Juliet says this that Jack recalls how Sarah said, regarding the identity of the other man in her life, "It doesn't matter who he is; it just matters who you're not." Obviously the way these phrases echo each other is deliberate on the part of the writers, although I never got the impression we're meant to think Juliet somehow knew what Sarah had said to Jack and intentionally used similar phrasing. What they were going for overall... well, between my headache and the baseball game on the television there's no way I'm gonna be able to do any sort of postulating on that right now. On a larger scale, though, what Juliet says is also one of the show's primary themes; on the island, who the survivors were before the crash means less and less the longer they're there--what matters is who they are now. And while the past obviously informs and influences everything the Lostaways do in the present, it doesn't dictate their actions. They can change and grow, if they're willing--Jack himself demonstrates that by being able to let go of his need to know who Sarah was seeing, a completely selfish (and I don't mean that in a negative way) impulse, and instead ask a question that's almost entirely selfless. After all, there's little question that Jack's desire to know who the other man is motivated by his need to control and fix everything; putting a name to his apparent nemesis means the problem with their marriage is no longer an intangible thing like lack of intimacy or emotional distance--it becomes about this one specific person and the particular impact his presence has on their lives, a tangible problem for which he believes he can find a solution. But asking whether Sarah was happy... that meant Jack was no longer focusing on what he's lost, but on what Sarah gained. He's admitting that he wasn't making her happy, that he wasn't able to fix what was wrong with their relationship and would never be able to. That he was letting it go. And that's a huge step for him, one that makes him a slightly better person than he was before and thus demonstrates the truth in Juliet's words. Okay, I'm totally rambling and I'm pretty sure whatever point I was trying to make has gotten lost in the shuffle. So just make of all that what you will...
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Post by Karen on Oct 8, 2006 8:22:00 GMT -5
I heard and saw the compassion she had for Jack, too, but it didn't stop her from being hard-nosed with him. Very like the way we saw Jack's dad be hard-nosed to him on occasion. Which, btw, was always in Jack's point of view, which might have been a bit skewed in perception. I also saw the ... I don't know if it is fear, exactly, but something in her demeanor that made me think she had to succeed at breaking Jack, no matter her personal feelings, or else suffer repercussions. ETA: I think Juliet and Sarah look a lot alike, and their mannerisms are similar. Both are soft-spoken and kind.Here's a thought - perhaps the resemblance to Sarah is why The Others chose Juliet to work on Jack. I agree, because I think some of the people on the airplane were there for a reason. Also, on the rewatch, I think they were calling Juliet 'Julie' when they were in the Emerald City, or whatever. They are all playacting in a well-scripted something or other.. Maybe the Clan were players, too.. Or maybe they are remnants of past castaways, like Danielle.
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Post by KMInfinity on Oct 8, 2006 9:13:01 GMT -5
After watching again, I think it's clear that the Others' approach to each of our gang is predicated on what they think will work in each case.
I believe that each is being offered a "bond," that each being manipulated, but the major approach is different:
1. Jack - controlled thru an appeal to reason, lots of facts given to him, the sense of "inevitability" in challenging the Others and failing due to logic. Bond offered with Juliet, somewhat lookalike with ex, woman of science...
2. Sawyer - controlled thru power, literally caged, false(?) hope of escape, led to think that challenging the Others will fail due to their power, represented by the cages, the beating Carl received. Bond offered with Carl, as a fellow victim. Carl is a plant. Easy to con a con?
3. Kate - Since we've seen only part of her interaction with HenBen, she's the hardest to describe. I think the Others are attempting to control her using a sick form of seduction. Tempting her with pleasure and mixing it with pain. Maybe because they think she's a little warped in her relationships the Others think the way to get her to follow HenBen is sexual/emotional. Led to think that challenging the Others will fail because she's weak? Bond offered with Ben.
The big question, in terms of their manipulations, is wondering why Kate has been put in the cage opposite Sawyer. Best guess right now is they're hoping/anticipating she will betray him, which will contribute to breaking Sawyer.
I agree with Lola: I am NOT of the opinion the Others are possibly the good guys. If they think they are, they're sick, deluded, and evil. I've tried to avoid spoilers, but I think I did read that we're supposed to see things from the Others' point of view sometimes this season? Does that mean there will be twists or slants trying to convince us they ARE "good?" hmmmmph..... Not if you don't believe in the philosophy that the end justifies the means.
As usual, reading the S'cubie thread adds enourmously to my enjoyment and understanding of the show! TY all!
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Post by Squeemonster on Oct 8, 2006 12:01:53 GMT -5
I also did not think Sara was sleeping with Jack's Dad. I thought this was just a creation of Jack's fevered brain. Jack isn't going to give in to his captors, not really. But by the time they escape, Kate & Sawyer will probably already be making wild monkey love in their cages. God, I hope so. The brief Ana Lucia/Sawyer romp was not enough to satisfy my desire for wild monkey love. ;D Of course, I'd really like to see Jack getting some. That boy really needs to get laid, and I really need to see it happen, preferably over an entire episode. Or possibly make it an arc, spanning several episodes. #liplick#
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