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Post by Matthew on Nov 3, 2006 16:26:37 GMT -5
Some thoughts on Juliet and the crossing/double/crossing she's planning with Jack.
I'm thinking that perhaps it's a triple-cross. If Jack's seen or read To Kill a Mockingbird, he knows that its central theme is following the dictates of your conscience, that you may be able to continue to look at yourself in the mirror. Perhaps that title was chosen to direct him back towards the course of following his Oath.
I like this idea because it puts Juliet back in the camp of being someone who doesn't want to break Jack. Because I'm a hopeful Pollyanna.
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Nov 3, 2006 17:35:24 GMT -5
Well, we know one thing for sure now--it's not just having sex that gets you killed on this island. Real glad they cleared that up. Oh, yeah. I had a thought about that - it isn't having sex, it isn't having an epiphany, it's being scheduled on Regis. The Curse of the Talk Show. Be afraid, be very afraid.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Nov 3, 2006 17:57:12 GMT -5
One of the lj posts I read connected this Pirate Guy and the glass eye that Eko found in the Spear hatch.
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Post by Lola m on Nov 3, 2006 20:42:13 GMT -5
If Benry really is sick, does that help prove they are on another island - a non-magically healing island? Or else the island just doesn't like him. Who could blame it? #rofl1# Wouldn't that be funny? All the Dharma people there to study the island phenomena and the island being all "no, I'm not gonna, I don't like you!"
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Post by Anne, Old S'cubie Cat on Nov 3, 2006 20:48:12 GMT -5
Or else the island just doesn't like him. Who could blame it? Wouldn't that be funny? All the Dharma people there to study the island phenomena and the island being all "no, I'm not gonna, I don't like you!" An island with free will. Gotta love it. On the other hand, there is always the possibility that Rat Benry's X-rays have been faked, and there is no tumor. In that case, maybe he's faking, or maybe he's being played by the rest of the group. For all we know, the Others sent him to deal with the Losties hoping he'd be killed, because he's an obnoxious little rat and they wanted to get rid of him... Wheels within wheels within wheels. Too complicated. Anne, YMMV, IMHO, and all that
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Post by Lola m on Nov 3, 2006 20:48:27 GMT -5
Well, once and for all the producers can't say everything that has happened on "Lost" can be explained in a non-supernatural way. Black smoke doesn't wrap itself around people and throw them against trees. Right? I mean, I'm sure I would have seen something of this phenomenon on the Weather Channel by now. #smirk# Although, actually, I think Spring put her finger on it when she said that no one else saw the smoke monster. It could later be explained that polar bear mauling plus running through the jungle and possibly a fall caused by confusion was the culprit. And Eko just thought he saw a smoke monster fist thing.
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Post by Lola m on Nov 3, 2006 20:49:50 GMT -5
Well, once and for all the producers can't say everything that has happened on "Lost" can be explained in a non-supernatural way. Black smoke doesn't wrap itself around people and throw them against trees. Right? I mean, I'm sure I would have seen something of this phenomenon on the Weather Channel by now. Hee! The black smoke was awesome! Very big and black and damn scary. Also, sneaky. It didn't look like smoke to me as much as it looked like those black magnetic flakes that are in that kids' drawing tablet that uses a magnetic pencil to move them around to make a picture. It was truly very cool! The way it backed up at one point. And then the fist! Damn! I liked that moment too.
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Post by Lola m on Nov 3, 2006 20:54:51 GMT -5
Before I forget... Juliet and her little Dylan music video cue cards - Why didn't it occur to any of the Others that if they asked Jack to help Ben, he'd be bound by the Hippocratic Oath to do so? He might have to think about it a bit, but Jack would have operated on Ben. **snickers about the Dylan reference** Either they are playing him or else they are so used to thinking twisty thoughts that they can't imagine the way Jack would see his obligation to operate well. **nods** And frankly, would getting rid of one guy really fix things completely? Surely Benry has followers. Would you find a way to kill all of them? I think you are really right about the mishandling. I think that for all they think they "know" everyone, they may be in for rather a few surprises. It could get very very interesting, couldn't it?
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Post by Lola m on Nov 3, 2006 20:57:40 GMT -5
I haven't had a chance to read all the pages yet but I found most of last night's episode a bit slow until it's wham bang ending. In that I was kind of almost falling asleep as we got yet one more scene of I'm bad, bad Eko Brown and then whomp! My superficial impressions: Jack/Eko- clearly being parelled. What do you do to survive? If Jack does what Juliet wants - he becomes his father, he becomes bad, bad Jack. He clearly can't kill Benry during surgery. That is not the act of a hero. And Jack is clearly one of our island heros. Yes, the surgery part is the thing that sinks it as an idea. In self-defense, yes. Perhaps even if needed during an escape. But surgery? Nope. Not gonna happen. Another very nice moment indeed. Surprising. #rofl1#
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on Nov 3, 2006 22:25:58 GMT -5
I think the one thing that is certain is that Ben does have that tumor and he never intended for Jack to find out about it. He seemed genuinely thrown, despite his attempts to cover, when Jack revealed that he knew and was unhappy at Juliet for bringing it to Jack's attention.
I have no clue about the rest of it, except I get the feeling that Ben and Juliet are trying to use Jack as a pawn to get at each other.
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Post by Lola m on Nov 3, 2006 23:33:56 GMT -5
I think the one thing is certain is that Ben does have that tumor and he never intended for Jack to find out about it. He seemed genuinely thrown, despite his attempts to cover, when Jack revealed that he knew and was unhappy at Juliet for bringing it to Jack's attention. I have no clue about the rest of it, except I get the feeling that Ben and Juliet are trying to use Jack as a pawn to get at each other. Plus, we also saw that separate conversation between Benry and Juliette where he acused her of telling Jack and he wasn't happy about it. And it didn't appear that this was done where Jack could overhear, therefore it was really just a conversation between them. Jack as pawn sounds very likely.
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Post by Karen on Nov 4, 2006 11:08:32 GMT -5
Some thoughts on Juliet and the crossing/double/crossing she's planning with Jack. I'm thinking that perhaps it's a triple-cross. If Jack's seen or read To Kill a Mockingbird, he knows that its central theme is following the dictates of your conscience, that you may be able to continue to look at yourself in the mirror. Perhaps that title was chosen to direct him back towards the course of following his Oath. I like this idea because it puts Juliet back in the camp of being someone who doesn't want to break Jack. Because I'm a hopeful Pollyanna. Oh, good point - about To Kill a Mockingbird. Hmm..Her first card read - "Ignore everything I'm saying." Even when she said - "I want you to trust me." ??
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Post by Karen on Nov 4, 2006 11:11:13 GMT -5
I find the introduction of Paulo and Nkki *really* awkwardly done. I can think of a couple ways that that could have been better. And I really don't understand *why* they've been introduced. Somebody probably already made this connection, but the Others seem like a cross between Strawberry's warren (warren of the shining wire, where nobody was allowed to ask "why") and Efrafa. Strong parallels all around between Eko and Jean Val Jean, though without the Javert figure, as far as we know. And he finally changes his shirt (or rather, some one changed it for him)!! Of course he has to die. I think Paulo and Nikki were introduced because otherwise we'd be running out of regulars. True, it was a bit awkward, but it goes to show that Jack, Sayid, Sawyer, et. al. don't have a monopoly on the brains. Though Paulo I'm already writing off as monster bait. Aw, why not the girl? We already saw a guy get blown up after he was pulled out of the crowd. (Artz) If that happens too many times, there aren't going to be any more volunteers to go with any of the Chosen Ones.
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Post by Jan on Nov 4, 2006 11:35:55 GMT -5
I'm going to set aside the internet showbiz gossip mill for the moment (since we all know that stuff is mostly pointless and speculative crap) and try to focus on the story being told. During "Psalm 23," Eko was still in the process of getting ready...or choosing his path. However one wants to say it. Now, it's true we had every indication that Eko was doing penance for the crimes of his past...but at some point (I believe it's partly when he realized last season that the code must be entered to survive), he arrived at the conclusion that moral absolutes aren't so...well, absolute. Think about it; neither the gangster warlords of his childhood nor the church gave an inch in either direction. He tried to protect himself and his own...and in that pursuit, he did increasingly awful things. Once a person starts down that kind of road, the only way to turn that around is change his environment altogether...and that wasn't happening. Instead of fighting the system, he chose to work his way up and survive the only way he knew. Yemi, on the other hand, chose to work within the system, trying to help as much as he could within the framework of his society. I doubt we'll ever get to see this, since he's not a primary character, but I would imagine a kindly nun or priest took Yemi in and showed him the generous and accepting side of the church. Eko, on the other hand, went a different way, and the harsh judgment employed by that nun did nothing to improve the situation. When you tell a starving teen it's a sin to feed his little brother, there needs to be a better reason aside from "'Cause God said so!" Well...God didn't see his way clear to feed Yemi, did he? Still...Eko made numerous efforts to try to find the message within the church that saved his brother; he surely wasn't devoid of self-loathing. Sadly, though, that die had been cast long ago; at this point, building that church didn't help him find deep answers. Nothing was going to be enough by that time. Eko didn't have it in him to be a spiritual, righteous shepherd. He was a survivor. Obviously it would take a person time to come to such a stark conclusion. Eko never claimed to be proud of what he'd done, but he wasn't going to lie down and accept judgment, either. They didn't have the right; they weren't there. It appears the island didn't take kindly to Eko's perceived self-justification, and therefore killed him. The question remains, however: how do we know what direction someone like Jack or Hurley would have taken in that same situation...or, for that matter, any of us? Who are we - or the church, or the island - to judge? It's a lot easier to preach moral absolutes when you're willing to compromise, which is what most of us do every day. Eko saw compromise as weakness. If you're going to battle injustice, you don't go halfway. You fight, and take no prisoners. Anyway, it's a fair and extremely complicated question, and it took several episodes - and a couple of years - to properly put it before us. I thought it was brilliant. #clap# #metoo# I think you're brilliant, Rob. Especially when I agree with you.
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Post by Jan on Nov 4, 2006 11:50:07 GMT -5
Oh, and it just occurred to me that Yemi's body being gone, and him being seen by Eko, links to Jack's dad's being gone from his coffin which Jack finds broken open at the cave/waterfall place.
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