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Post by Pixi on Apr 19, 2007 7:12:00 GMT -5
Oh shit, does Desmond think that letting Charlie die will bring Penny to the Island? I was wondering something similar. Or maybe he thinks he can save Charlie, either by causing him to avoid the tripwire or saving his life with the first-aid kit. Charlie is the sacrifice that needs to be made? I too appreciated finding out why Desmond is always brothering everyone.
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Post by Lola m on Apr 19, 2007 7:25:52 GMT -5
no kidding! But I thought to myself. WOW! what a way to start the show! Then I was relieved that Charlie was not dead. Edit: not sure why I was relieved , Charlie is not one of my favorite characters. *shrug* Hee! I liked the opener. I thought. Okay then we're finally killing Charlie, no fuss, no muss. Good scene. And then of course it was a flash forward. Hee! It really was one hell of a wowser opening scene, wasn't it?
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Post by Lola m on Apr 19, 2007 7:26:58 GMT -5
I was wondering something similar. Or maybe he thinks he can save Charlie, either by causing him to avoid the tripwire or saving his life with the first-aid kit. Charlie is the sacrifice that needs to be made? I too appreciated finding out why Desmond is always brothering everyone. And it was a very unexpected twist, for me. I gotta admit, I never once looked at Desmond up til now and thought, "oh yeah, a monk!". ;D
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Post by SpringSummers on Apr 19, 2007 7:43:15 GMT -5
Seems to me an episode with that title being aired this week is the kind of coincidence both Lost and Vonnegut fans can truly appreciate. And from the inimitable Jeff Jensen, some non-spoilery info to add to your viewing enjoyment: ''Catch 22'' was written by Drew Goddard (co-author of the recent ''Locke's Daddy Is On The Island!'' outing, ''The Man From Tallahassee'') and Brian K. Vaughan. If you don't know Brian K. Vaughan, then allow me to introduce you to a very nice young man and an artist who can lay claim to being the finest comic-book writer of his generation. He's also a living, breathing Lost clue.
First, there's Runaways, Vaughan's acclaimed comic book about kids who learn that their parents belong to a secret cabal of brutal supervillains. It shares with Lost the whole question of ''Do we inherit the sins of our fathers?'' Then there's Ex Machina, about a former superhero who becomes the mayor of New York; the comic's intricate, thematically driven flashback structure is very Lost. And then, there's Y: The Last Man, a major work of comic-book fiction. It's about a wannabe stage magician with a pet monkey who wakes up one day to discover that every man in the world has been killed by a mysterious plague — except for him. As the last man on a planet full of women, the dude finds himself in the not-as-cool-as-it-sounds position of being the linchpin in the repopulation of the world. Y: The Last Man is about politics, ethics, social responsibility, and self-discovery. Factor in the whole plague business that threatens the survival of humanity (think: the Others and their babymaking problem), and you have a saga that exists in an interesting relationship to Lost.Jensen also indicated we viewers should pay close attention during the final scenes for an Easter egg that'll "throw you for a loop." Can't wait to try and find out what that might be... Interesting excerpt - thanks for sharing. Not understanding the Vonnegut connection though . . .
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Post by SpringSummers on Apr 19, 2007 7:43:41 GMT -5
While I was watching last week's episode that they ran again tonight, it occurred to me that possibly once someone comes to the islands, they can't leave - due to changes in their body chemistry or something/whatever. If they leave, they'll die.
Otherwise, why wouldn't Benry have planned a trip back to civilisation and real hospitals and specialists via the sub when he learned he had the tumor on his spine? What stopped him from leaving?
Didn't Benry say he was born on the island? Has he ever appeared outside of either the Lostaways' island or the Others' island.
Feel free to shoot me down if someone else has come up with this, or if it's impossible...
GAIL Good theory!
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Post by SpringSummers on Apr 19, 2007 7:44:17 GMT -5
Well, I suppose that was only fair, given the half-nekkid Desmond moment earlier... Desmond is growing on me, as far as the cutie-pie factor . . .
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Post by SpringSummers on Apr 19, 2007 7:45:52 GMT -5
Desmond was a monk. A very clean cut, silent, monk. Ahh! That's where he gets the bit of calling people "brother"! Oh, Hurley is all pouty and worried. Frankly, it's adorable. I like the imagery of a puzzle and he doen't have the picture on the box. Hurley says, don't you want to change the picture. And he doesn't. Hmmmmm. So, is his desire to not change it enough that he doesn't save Charlie? Oooh, half-nekkid Kate! Nice. Very nice!! Sawyer thinks so too. "I'm up here." ;D And Sawyer is all vulnerable and nervous underneath his bluster. Awwww. "Did you tell the doc about us?" Mix tape? Heeeeeeeeeeee! Camping. With Desmond and Hurley and Jin and Charlie. And little marshmallows!! That means this will be the episode where Spike appears. Can I come on this "camping" trip? Des doesn't tell Charlie the whole truth. Where is the reference to a "mix tape" from? I was beating my brains out trying to remember . . . a movie where a guy with a crush gives the girl a mix tape or something . . .?
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Post by SpringSummers on Apr 19, 2007 7:49:04 GMT -5
Aww... she is still so in love with Jack... Yes - seems like quite the set up: Kate gives up on Jack because of the Juliet thing, and gets herself heavily involved with Sawyer because he's being so sweet and saying all the right things, plus, well - he's Sawyer and that's gotta be fun. THEN, it comes out that Jack was just playing Juliet all along, and here's Kate, practically married to Sawyer by that time, and she gets all confused and angsty, and that's what you call CONFLICT. All dramatic and everything . . . jealousy, testosterone, violence, sex . . . yes, I'm flashing on this future, much as Desmond does.
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Post by SpringSummers on Apr 19, 2007 7:50:18 GMT -5
Well, I suppose that was only fair, given the half-nekkid Desmond moment earlier... Everybody must get half-nekkid! Make it a rule for every ep, I say! Only half? Lola - you are being pretty restrictive, aren't you? I can't believe I'm saying this, but: Lola, you need to loosen up!
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Post by SpringSummers on Apr 19, 2007 7:50:39 GMT -5
ROFLMAO at Jin's ghost story! I LOVED that part!!
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Post by SpringSummers on Apr 19, 2007 7:52:33 GMT -5
There was the easter egg! The lady who didn't sell Desmond the ring was in the photo on the monk's desk. Nice catch!! Almost as good as the one with the parachute. Lot's o' literal "catches" in the ep.
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Post by SpringSummers on Apr 19, 2007 7:55:58 GMT -5
Maybe the blinky thing was the President's Escape Pod from Air Force One. Escape From Crapphole Island. Send in Snake Plisken!!! That was the funniest line of the whole ep, wasn't it? ;D ;D ;D <snip> I think my favorite line was Sawyer, to Jack & Juliet (paraphrasing, can't remember it exactly): "You two discussin' who's your favorite Other?" For some reason, that just cracked me up. That and the Jin/flashlight scene were very funny. I liked Sawyer & Jack playing ping-pong. I assume Kate was the figurative ping-pong ball. I'd say "poor Kate," but getting paddled by bouncing between those two guys doesn't really seem that cruel a fate.
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Post by Sara on Apr 19, 2007 8:48:46 GMT -5
Seems to me an episode with that title being aired this week is the kind of coincidence both Lost and Vonnegut fans can truly appreciate. And from the inimitable Jeff Jensen, some non-spoilery info to add to your viewing enjoyment: ''Catch 22'' was written by Drew Goddard (co-author of the recent ''Locke's Daddy Is On The Island!'' outing, ''The Man From Tallahassee'') and Brian K. Vaughan. If you don't know Brian K. Vaughan, then allow me to introduce you to a very nice young man and an artist who can lay claim to being the finest comic-book writer of his generation. He's also a living, breathing Lost clue.
First, there's Runaways, Vaughan's acclaimed comic book about kids who learn that their parents belong to a secret cabal of brutal supervillains. It shares with Lost the whole question of ''Do we inherit the sins of our fathers?'' Then there's Ex Machina, about a former superhero who becomes the mayor of New York; the comic's intricate, thematically driven flashback structure is very Lost. And then, there's Y: The Last Man, a major work of comic-book fiction. It's about a wannabe stage magician with a pet monkey who wakes up one day to discover that every man in the world has been killed by a mysterious plague — except for him. As the last man on a planet full of women, the dude finds himself in the not-as-cool-as-it-sounds position of being the linchpin in the repopulation of the world. Y: The Last Man is about politics, ethics, social responsibility, and self-discovery. Factor in the whole plague business that threatens the survival of humanity (think: the Others and their babymaking problem), and you have a saga that exists in an interesting relationship to Lost.Jensen also indicated we viewers should pay close attention during the final scenes for an Easter egg that'll "throw you for a loop." Can't wait to try and find out what that might be... Interesting excerpt - thanks for sharing. Not understanding the Vonnegut connection though . . . Ah. See, you're missing the part where I'm an idiot and forgot it was Joseph Heller who wrote Catch-22.
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Post by Sara on Apr 19, 2007 9:08:15 GMT -5
Interesting observations from Jeff Jensen:
The early flashback scenes echoed with resonances to Lost episodes past. When Ruth accused Desmond of cold feet, I recalled how Jack struggled with jitters in the days before his wedding to Sarah. When Brother Campbell commended Desmond on completing his vow of silence as part of his monastery initiation, I recalled that Locke had a sentence of silence that was part of his reconnection process with the Island. And when Brother Campbell told Desmond that he was ''one of us,'' of course, I thought of last week's Juliet episode, entitled ''One of Us.'' All this in the wake of the most recent Desmond episode, in which his bid to get a respectable job with Penelope's father mirrored the almost-forgotten season 1 episode in which a smack-addled, post-Driveshaft Charlie tried to go straight by working for his girlfriend's Dad. Weird how this one character mirrors and twins a broad swath of others, from Jack to Locke to Charlie. Worth a future Doc Jensen theory, perhaps.
It's clear from the flashbacks that from an early age, Desmond has been driven by a desire for belonging and validation. At the same time, he also suffers from a profound case of ''I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For''-itus. I'd love to know in a future episode what role Desmond's early life played in the formation of this personality; in his last episode, we were told he was left to raise his bothers after the death of his father. What happened there? (And why do I have a hunch that the Lost-cited book The Brothers Karamazov — about four brothers and a dead dad — might have something to do with it?). Whatever the cause of his restlessness, Desmond seems chronically incapable of staying engaged, on mission, committed, for a prolonged period of time before something in him breaks down and spurs him elsewhere, usually into the bottom of a bottle. The lesson that Brother Campbell believed he needed to learn was the value of personal sacrifice, a lesson which the Liam Neeson sound-alike illustrated for Desmond by citing the famous Biblical story in which God asked Abraham to kill his son Isaac as an offering. Abraham was torn, but was willing to do it — and at the last second, got a deus ex machina reprieve from the Lord himself. Talk about mirroring and symmetry: You can find this Biblical catch-22 in...Genesis, chapter 22.
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Post by Sara on Apr 19, 2007 9:10:19 GMT -5
More from Jensen, adding intriguing layers to what we saw:
The Superman/Flash Debate Could this be a clue that foreshadows future events or illuminates past mythology? Since the early '60s, Superman and the Flash have raced each other several times for charity's sake — and to paraphrase Jack's line from last night, ''sooner or later, something always goes wrong.'' In the first race, sinister crime syndicates kidnapped the Flash during the race and replaced him with an impostor. (I'm telling you: Someone — Jack, Locke, Charlie, Desmond, someone — ain't who they currently claim to be on this show. I know it!) In the second race, Superman and the Flash raced to ''the end of the universe,'' only to learn that it was an elaborate trap (''a long con,'' per Lost) staged by super-villains hell-bent on killing the Flash. (Poor Flash! He's like the Charlie of superheroes!) Speaking of the end of the universe...
Rousseau's arrows; Ms. Hawking and her ouroboros; and Desmond's recurring commitment issues There is a notion in mythology and philosophy dating back to ancient Greece and Egypt known as eternal return, or what Friedrich Nietzsche called eternal recurrence. The idea: Time isn't linear, but cyclical (symbolized by the ouroboros), and everything and everyone essentially repeats the dramatic arc of their lives, over and over again, albeit in different ways and in different forms. For example: Desmond's broken relationship with Ruth + Desmond's broken relationship with Penelope + Desmond's catchphrase ''See you in another life, brother!'' = eternal recurrence. But here's where it gets interesting. It seems that recent theories about the birth and inevitable death of the universe allow for the possibility of time travel and various forms of ''eternal returns.'' These are complex ideas — ''Big Crunch,'' ''Time Reversal,'' and other notions advanced by Lost-cited egghead Stephen Hawking — and I'm not even going to try to summarize them. But they all utilize a few core concepts, including what physicists refer to as ''the arrows of time.'' Look 'em up.
The Bridge on the River Kwai and Catch-22 Actually, I have never seen the former, and never read the latter. But did you know that the famous whistling tune from Kwai actually had lyrics back in the day? It's true. Unfortunately, we can't print them, because they're all about...Hitler's testicles. Specifically, how Hitler and all his right-hand men either had only one testicle or no testicles at all. I could apply this to Ben and the Others, but in the name of good taste, let us note that Kwai and Catch-22 both share similar themes concerning the madness of war, and move on to...
The noodle cooker: Ruth and Naomi In ''Catch 22,'' the characters Ruth and Naomi have nothing to do with each other. But in The Bible, they are the stars of the Book of Ruth. Well, it just so happens that the book right before Ruth is the Book of Judges. The very last story in the Book of Judges is the story of a war among the tribes of Israel. The bad guy in this story: the Tribe of Benjamin. The war started over a murder that the other tribes believed needed to be avenged; it ended with the near-obliteration (''The Purge,'' perhaps?) of the Benjaminites. Here's where it gets creepy: In the aftermath, the people of Israel felt badly about wiping out Benjamin's people. So they decided to repopulate his tribe by forcing the women from another city to join the tribe of Benjamin. You know: to make babies and stuff.
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