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Post by Lola m on May 25, 2007 13:27:02 GMT -5
So, Jack has come around (or came around) to believing Locke's words. Locke: [explaining why he wanted to let the island monster drag him off] I believe that I was being tested. Jack: Tested? Locke: Yeah, tested. I think... that's why you and I don't see eye-to-eye sometimes, Jack because you're a man of science. Jack: Yeah, and what does that make you? Locke: Me, well, I'm a man of faith. Do you really think all this... is an accident? That we, a group of strangers survived, many of us with just superficial injuries? Do you think we crashed on this place by coincidence, especially this place? We were brought here for a purpose, for a reason, all of us. Each one of us was brought here for a reason. Jack: Brought here? And who brought us here, John? Locke: The island. The island brought us here. This is no ordinary place, you've seen that, I know you have. But the island chose you, too, Jack. It's destiny. Jack: Did you talk with Boone about destiny, John? Locke: Boone was a sacrifice that the island demanded. What happened to him at that plane was a part of a chain of events that led us here that led us down a path, that led you and me to this day, to right now. Jack: And where does that path end, John? Locke: The path ends at the hatch. The hatch, Jack all of it. All of it happened so that we could open the hatch. Jack: No, no, we're opening the hatch so that we can survive. Locke: Survival is all relative, Jack. Jack: I don't believe in destiny. Locke: [pause] Yes, you do. You just don't know it yet.
And I still wonder who is right. And what does Locke know or what can he see that makes everything he does make sense to him. Ditto for the Others. And/or is the show maybe gonna ultimately land on a message that neither is completely right or completely wrong? That a mixture of both works better?
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Post by Lola m on May 25, 2007 13:36:39 GMT -5
I get the message. No one wants to discuss my frustrations with the show and instead prefer to focus upon how . . . "great" it is. I guess that is one train of thought I do not harbor. Hmmmmm. Well, perhaps it is more that we hold a wide variety of opinions here and therefore are discussing the good, the bad, the so-so, and all points in between. So, if you really want to discuss, rather than just presenting one or two blanket statements and stopping, you might want to try more of an ongoing interactive conversation. For example, when you say "why did the Other's act such and such a way" and you get a response, then respond back with your thoughts, and take it from there. Bring up some new points, state something that you think and ask how others see it, and so on and so forth. Not everyone will feel or think the exact same way that you do, but then, that is what conversation and discussion is all about. That's generally how we do things here and we find it works nicely.
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Post by Lola m on May 25, 2007 13:39:00 GMT -5
I was easily able to accept it as a flash-forward, though, because they had taken any "easy" continuity away: this period of dissipation didn't seem to fit anywhere in his life before the crash, and I was more and more perplexed as to how it fit in... I was distracted by Jack's pain and the actor who played the concerned doctor to really think much about when it was happening. Obviously, he was lauded as a hero upon his return from the island, because I don't believe that the reason people were coming up to him because they recognized him was that he rescued the woman and her son from the wreck. For some reason, being lauded as a hero didn't sit well with him. Yeah, the hero thing seemed very not good to him. Perhaps that gives us a hint of what has happened between the island time and that future time. And also, Jack was always a bit of a reluctant leader guy too. It's like he wants to lead, sort of, and is sometimes good and sometimes not, but he also pulls away from it.
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Post by Lola m on May 25, 2007 13:41:23 GMT -5
I think it's amazing that to get this far, the Losties had to be willing to amass such a body count. Jack beat the crap out of Ben this season when last season he prevented Sayid from doing the same thing. The longer they are there, the longer they are manipulated and lied to and see violence happening around them (by the Others, by themselves, by the island), as they become more scared about what is coming next - the more prone to violence they will become, I think.
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Post by Vlad on May 25, 2007 17:38:20 GMT -5
I think it's amazing that to get this far, the Losties had to be willing to amass such a body count. Jack beat the crap out of Ben this season when last season he prevented Sayid from doing the same thing. The longer they are there, the longer they are manipulated and lied to and see violence happening around them (by the Others, by themselves, by the island), as they become more scared about what is coming next - the more prone to violence they will become, I think. T'ain't the civilized world no more. I personally love the exchange between Jack and Sawyer from early in the first season and what it boils down to: people aren't civilized, they act civilized. For loads of reasons. Mostly for survival. The old civilized rules no longer matter here. Or, they only matter so much as you want to make them matter. The Losties are taking matters in their own hands. It's not their fault that they are on this island and they are simply trying to survive and get off, get back to their regularly programmed lives. Then these nuts are kidnapping them and killing or threatening to kill them. For no good reason. "Somebody tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back." - M. ReynoldsVlad
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Post by Dragon on May 26, 2007 2:00:56 GMT -5
Flashback!Jack is hitting bottom. "Get my father down her and if I'm drunker than him, you can fire me." Harsh, dude. "Attention, Others. Come in, Others." Heeeee! Hurley, dude, I love you. "You'd best stay away from our beach." "Dude, I'm back at the beach!" So, we have premature happy-happy. Hey, the guys at the beach are OK, yays. Ah. Stop the jamming and learn that Naomi is not working for Penelope. Hmmm. Doesn't necessarily mean she's working for bad guys, though. But it is suspicious. Grenade! Ah, so Charlie does do the sacrifice thing. But he passes along the message first. So, was turning off the signal how his sacrifice gets Claire off the island, or was it passing along the message so that they don't get picked up by Naomi's crew and then later are rescued? Another mystery, eh? Hey, and does anyone else think that after he passed the message along he could have swum out the porthole thingee and got to the surface? Um. Provided Mikhail didn't kill him in the water, I mean. Benry! Rousseau! Naomi! Locke! Jack! Whoa. Lot's o' drama. So, did ghost!Walt, aka the Island Manifisation Thing, aka Jacob, tell him that Naomi's people were bad? Or just tell him to stop them getting off the island, because it (and Locke) want them to stay? I have to admit, I giggled a bit when Rousseau cold-cocked Benry to shut him up. OK, flashback. Kate? WTF? Is it the future? They're talking about the crash - he goes on planes wanting to crash and get back there. Must be the future. But his dad is alive? He told the other doctor to get his dad. Was he just hallucinating/yammering about a dead guy? Or is Shephard Sr. alive again in the future? Or? Whoa. Brain broken!! My thoughts exactly, Dad Dead, on island, or maybe not!!!!!!! My brain went ino a downward spiral watching Charlie cross himself. I Hope he turns and tries to get out of the porthole. If he goes, so do I. Dragon
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Post by Dragon on May 26, 2007 2:12:23 GMT -5
I am confused, ROFL. IF this was a flash foward then how the hell is his dad alive? Right now? I'm going with a "game reset" thingee. Or else? Lots and lots of pills and liquor have just messed Jack's mind up so bad that he refers to his dead dad as alive. Or, you know. Space aliens! Weren't they joking about alien runways? Doesn't it bother anyone that the woman said the plane had been found with no survivors? So, no one is looking for them. Or is she part of the plot and is just lying? Makes my head hurt. Dragon
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Post by Dragon on May 26, 2007 2:30:18 GMT -5
What was the purpose of the Others' actions for the past three seasons? Which "Others" do you mean? Henry's Others , Ben's Others, The Others that were here before? I'm just trying to figure out how many packs of Others there are. Maybe we can call them Who the hell knows "Others", Ben's Others, Dharma and Greg's Others, the indigenous Others, the Native Others, the Pirate Others. There may be thousands of Others at this rate!!! I've got my pencil and paper and I am going to figure it out, maybe. Dragon
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Post by SpringSummers on May 26, 2007 12:04:55 GMT -5
Scoop from producer Damon Lindelof on the five things you WON'T see in tonight's episode, courtesy of EW.com: 5. Rose quietly snuffing the life out of Bernard by holding his nostrils closed while looking distractedly at Aaron's car seat. 4. Hurley feeling a great disturbance in the Force (''as if many voices cried out and were suddenly silent'') because his cousin back in Valencia, Calif., was blown up in a nuclear explosion and no one seemed to give a crud. 3. Kate and Juliet doing each other's hair and nicknaming Jack ''McIntensey'' and Sawyer ''McMurderedTheManWhoConnedHisParentsy.'' 2. A character travelling back in time to warn all the other characters to do something, but by doing that something, they prevent a future that might have happened but never did had the character not travelled back in time, thus negating the entire reason behind everything. 1. Sanjaya. I am not getting #1.
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Post by SpringSummers on May 26, 2007 12:05:42 GMT -5
Bearded Jack on a plane, not happy, drinking. Flashback to . . . but he looks older? Grey in beard . . . flash forward maybe? Driving and stopping and reading and crying. What does it say! HOLY crap! Gonna jump?! "Forgive me." And then there's a car crash and people need him and so he's back to what he always does. Sayid is in charge of the shooters, wants Jack to keep going no matter what. Willing to give up his life for others to be rescued. My sweet woobie Sayid! Everyone prepping to go in their own ways and directions. "I am a dentist. I am not Rambo." ;D "Because we need to go home." That sums it up, really. I am thinking the obit was Juliette.
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Post by SpringSummers on May 26, 2007 12:06:42 GMT -5
So he rescued someone. Who wouldn't have been hurt if he hadn't been off killing himself. And there's Sarah. "Drinking again?" You probably don't wanna know what he was doing driving around at two a.m. Changes the subjet. All the asnwer she needs. "I don't think that would be appropriate." God, he looks like hell. "If you say 'live together, die alone' to me, Jack, I'm gonna punch you in your face" "fair enough" heh.. And he's doing the right thing, even if it's really bad not knowing.... Naomi still trying to get a signal. "I'm here to turn off your jamming equipment" Well, there you go. Hey, they tell him who has the code! "I die" all cheerful. THAT gives them pause. Benry REALLy losing it with the hand shaking. Bernard tells them. And Bernard is gonna betray Karl. DAMN. "Not yet" and that's good and creepy... CUTE Ratatouille LOST themed commercial. Bernard the dentist - can dish out the pain, but doesn't know how to take it.
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Post by SpringSummers on May 26, 2007 12:08:31 GMT -5
Jack is falling apart - like his dad did. Hmmmm. Not as grey as now . . . maybe a recent flashback? Just before going all tropic paradise? Sawyer didn't want to go with Kate. Ouch! And he does go with Juliette. Ouch! And Jack kissed Juliette good bye. Ouch! Well, yay Charlie. Making Mikhail question why Benry's been lying. "Everything I did, I did for the island." Yeah, yeah. The island told me to. Jacob told me to. Sing us a new song, buddy. Plus, why is the island spirit!Jacob saying "help me" if he's so down with all you're doing? "I need you to help me clean up this mess I made." Does Benry have some power in his voice or something? Is that why he leads? Is that why he thinks he'll talk them out of trying to leave? Kill Charlie and the two women. Hmmmm. Well, Mikhail is a bit suspicious of Benry . . . maybe he'll defy the orders. Or, you know, not. Heh! Runway for aliens. Juliette does have a dry sense of humor, doesn't she? "Screwing Jack yet?" "Are you?" **for the win** Oh, if only, Juliette. If only! No guns, but Hurley offers instead. And is turned down. Again. Which is making me think that he'll turn out to be a pivotal player tonight, just because everyone is sooo eager to point out how he can't be helpful. Taking Alex to her new family, eh? How about to her old family, like, say her mother!! And, overreacted? Um, yeah. Locke!!!! Woot!! Not dead. Ooopsie. But can't move legs again, so he wants to die. Only . . . Walt!!! ! ! ! ! ! OMGWALT! "Don't John." "You can move your legs. Now get out of the ditch, John." That is soooo totally the island!Jacob!whatever talking to him. Gail, your theory is lookin' good, girl! So its a flashforward, but Jack's dad is alive? Or is he just so out of his mind with the drink and drugs that he doesn't know what he is saying? I guess I will go with the latter.
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Post by SpringSummers on May 26, 2007 12:09:48 GMT -5
And it's the Juliet and Sawyer road show. "Building a runway" "for what?" "The Aliens" and that look!!!! "No. Are you?" hee!!! So she lied. "Karma" and now they have to actually do it as NOT a suicide mission because no one would let that woobie die. "Just gonna get in the way. Gonna get us killed" I hate it but he's trying to save Hugo. "Delivering you to your new family" "Because I can't, Alex" Well, why the hell NOT?! Dude! I am so right there with you! 'Cuz he's a miracle kid! Wacky mental powers and speedy growth a specialty. That kid has definitely grown a lot. He is hitting rapid awkward transition time in his growth here - how nice for him to do it in front of millions.
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Post by SpringSummers on May 26, 2007 12:12:04 GMT -5
Charlie!! NOOOOOOOOO!!!!! Maybe Charlie made it out? I don't want Charlie to die!! If they are somehow going to "rewrite" history next season so that they DON'T get rescued - and really, won't they have to, somehow? Then Charlie may still be around, somehow. I liked the Hurley to the rescue with his giant bowling ball (so to speak). Next season: Yellow crayon.
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Post by SpringSummers on May 26, 2007 12:13:05 GMT -5
Bearded Jack on a plane, not happy, drinking. Flashback to . . . but he looks older? Grey in beard . . . flashforward maybe?Driving and stopping and reading and crying. What does it say! HOLY crap! Gonna jump?! "Forgive me." And then there's a car crash and people need him and so he's back to what he always does. Sayid is in charge of the shooters, wants Jack to keep going no matter what. Willing to give up his life for others to be rescued. My sweet woobie Sayid! Everyone prepping to go in their own ways and directions. "I am a dentist. I am not Rambo." ;D "Because we need to go home." That sums it up, really. Nice call, Lola!
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