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Post by Pixi on May 24, 2007 6:44:08 GMT -5
So. First thought: for the past three seasons, we've been watching Jack's do-over, his chance to fix his mistake. Christian is obviously still alive in BeardedJack's future, but we saw his corpse when Jack ID'ed him at the morgue in Australia. This is a somewhat big discrepancy. And the only way I can get that to start making sense is if BeardedJack's future was the equivalent of FutureHiro's world: ie a world in which something catastrophic happened, bad enough to make Jack suicidal and alcoholic. Say, for example, that BeardedJack boarded flight 815 not with his father's body in the hold but with Christian sitting in the seat next to him. Kate was still on the plane, obviously, and who knows who else. They crash on the island of the weird, make that call, get rescued, etc. Yet that turns out to be the worst possible outcome. Enter Desmond. We know he's been able to see visions of the future, and it seems pretty certain he did, at least for a while, travel back to his own past. A past where he ended up changing the future he remembered: like saving the barkeep from taking a cricket bat in the head. In doing so, he caused the bartender's life to unfold very differently than it would have. Maybe even differently enough that years later, in Sydney, Australia, instead of a barkeep who cuts Christian off there was instead a bartender who didn't, resulting in Christian's death rather than just another bad bender. Without his dad on the island with him, and the guilt of his role in his father's fate, Jack's actions and decisions undoubtedly play out in ways unlike when BeardedJack crashed. Moreover, because of his gift Desmond now knows Naomi's people aren't with Penny. Meaning Jack and the Losties won't be waiting to welcome their 'rescuers' with open arms, even though BeardedJack's words about how they shouldn't have left the island suggest they went willingly. So it appears we have yet another way in which BeardedJack's past on the island was unlike what we've seen unfold. So, yeah, I think the three months we've watched are happening very, very differently from what happened in BeardedJack's reality. And I'm pretty sure I had more, but it's midnight and my brain is totally shutting down on me. Okay Sara, I'm even more confused after reading this. You believe the entire three seasons have been only, all about Jack? And that Desmond is the key here? Please splainy more because I'm confused. Oh ObiSara.
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Post by Pixi on May 24, 2007 6:54:24 GMT -5
John telling Jack "Your not supposed to do this." leads me to believe he has been shown a glimpse of this possible outcome by Walt or Jacob. I really need to quit analyzing this frakking show. Oh, that was a good line and probably does mean something. Nice catch Jeff.
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Post by Pixi on May 24, 2007 7:53:22 GMT -5
Someone on TWoP pointed out that the funeral parlor, Hoffs/Drawlar, is an anagram of "flash forward."
Awesome.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 24, 2007 8:09:06 GMT -5
Teaser
Whoa, Jack with a beard does not look pretty. The beard itself is a little silly.
Is he going to jump. Well, he's thinking about it.
Forgive me. For what?
Ah, the old convince a suicidal person to save themselves by forcing them to rescue someone else trick.
Sayid, Bernard, and Jin are staying behind to detonate the dynamite.
Willing to give ones life in order to secure rescue.
Ref. to the SOS sign.
I am a dentist; I am not Rambo. Hee!
Exodus. Once more.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 24, 2007 8:17:06 GMT -5
Part I
Going this way again. But at high tide.
What did you do for a living before you became Moses?
Yeah, why don't you work on your trust building skills, Juliet?
How to work the satellite phone.
Torture.
Oh there are two women, I missed that.
He's one of *them*.
She's one of *us* now.
OK, so these women are working with Ben and the Others.
Bonnie.
So now ben knows that Juliet betrayed him. And he's what, surprised by this?
Ben: I lied. He's being doing a lot of that.
BOOM! THAT WAS AWESOME!!!!
Oh, no. Jin missed. And now they captured them. Dammit.
So that whole thing was a wash, basically. And we're what, surprised by this?
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 24, 2007 8:26:15 GMT -5
Part II
You being a hero and all.
Jack's ex.
Is Sarah pregnant?
If you say "live together, die alone" Jack, I'm going to punch you in the face. Hee. LOVE Rose. Love her.
There's a code. Dammit. Unless she's lying. I think she is.
Love Charlie here. Love him.
She's face to face with someone a crazy and Ben.
So there were casualties. "They're all dead." So just Tom and 2 others made it?
Tom's surprised by Juliet's betrayal.
And the dentist. They don't know his name? Or they don't care.
This is kind of like the Search For Spock.
No, Bernard! Dammit, he's spilling everything. *hangs head*.
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Post by Sue on May 24, 2007 8:27:56 GMT -5
Oh, and: Holy Crap! (Obviously I have nothing useful or substantial to contribute to a meaningful discussion just want to share in the general holy crapness of the moment!) *adores Sue* *shares in holy crapness with her* ;D Well, I've read a bit further and have to say I probably had more fun with it than foks who have been following closely and trying to make sense of it. Jeff and Gail both seem a bit peeved. And I can't even follow Sara's theory. (again, my own fault since I've totally failed to follow or care about 90% of the "mythology" of the island). Can't think of a good analogy but enjoyed the simple bizarrity of the whole thing without thinking any deeper. (See, I heard him refer to his father but when the final revel came I didn't even twig to the logical conundrum there. No analysis what so ever.)
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Post by Sue on May 24, 2007 8:29:11 GMT -5
John telling Jack "Your not supposed to do this." leads me to believe he has been shown a glimpse of this possible outcome by Walt or Jacob. I really need to quit analyzing this frakking show. It's working for me. 'Course, along with not analyzing I haven't even been watching.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 24, 2007 8:33:13 GMT -5
Part III
The Others are going to go to the temple.
"These people" are asking questions. I'm very curious about the subdivisions within The Others.
Is he going to kill her?
Why they all just don't mutiny against him, I don't understand.
Ben wants to talk the Losties out of their plan. That should be interesting.
I want to see Ben's map better.
Love the music in this episode.
There's always some one to go back for.
Kate can tell something's wrong with Sawyer.
Is Kate pregnant?
Desmond dives down after Charlie.
The women are bickering. Hee.
Singing. Nice save, Charlie.
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Post by Sara on May 24, 2007 8:36:20 GMT -5
So. First thought: for the past three seasons, we've been watching Jack's do-over, his chance to fix his mistake. Christian is obviously still alive in BeardedJack's future, but we saw his corpse when Jack ID'ed him at the morgue in Australia. This is a somewhat big discrepancy. And the only way I can get that to start making sense is if BeardedJack's future was the equivalent of FutureHiro's world: ie a world in which something catastrophic happened, bad enough to make Jack suicidal and alcoholic. Say, for example, that BeardedJack boarded flight 815 not with his father's body in the hold but with Christian sitting in the seat next to him. Kate was still on the plane, obviously, and who knows who else. They crash on the island of the weird, make that call, get rescued, etc. Yet that turns out to be the worst possible outcome. Enter Desmond. We know he's been able to see visions of the future, and it seems pretty certain he did, at least for a while, travel back to his own past. A past where he ended up changing the future he remembered: like saving the barkeep from taking a cricket bat in the head. In doing so, he caused the bartender's life to unfold very differently than it would have. Maybe even differently enough that years later, in Sydney, Australia, instead of a barkeep who cuts Christian off there was instead a bartender who didn't, resulting in Christian's death rather than just another bad bender. Without his dad on the island with him, and the guilt of his role in his father's fate, Jack's actions and decisions undoubtedly play out in ways unlike when BeardedJack crashed. Moreover, because of his gift Desmond now knows Naomi's people aren't with Penny. Meaning Jack and the Losties won't be waiting to welcome their 'rescuers' with open arms, even though BeardedJack's words about how they shouldn't have left the island suggest they went willingly. So it appears we have yet another way in which BeardedJack's past on the island was unlike what we've seen unfold. So, yeah, I think the three months we've watched are happening very, very differently from what happened in BeardedJack's reality. And I'm pretty sure I had more, but it's midnight and my brain is totally shutting down on me. Okay Sara, I'm even more confused after reading this. You believe the entire three seasons have been only, all about Jack? And that Desmond is the key here? Please splainy more because I'm confused. Oh ObiSara. What, my midnight typings weren't entirely coherent? Short answer: no, I don't think it's only about Jack. Not necessarily, anyway; I'd never rule anything out at this point. What I meant was I think our Jack is experiencing the do-over BeardedJack wanted; for whatever reason, the universe needed to course-correct, and what we've been watching for the past three seasons is that course correction. And I think the course correction most likely began when Desmond revisited his past, because with his foreknowledge he acted in different ways than before—with the result that the bartender didn't get hit in the head, the ring ended up in the ocean instead of remaining in Mrs. Hawking's (the jewelry lady) shop, etc. Or, put another way, I think of BeardedJack's future as the equivalent of FutureHiro's world, and Desmond's sojourn into his own past as Desmond inadvertently doing the equivalent of saving Claire from Sylar. Make any more sense? If so I'm amazed, as it's early and I haven't had any coffee yet.
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Post by Sue on May 24, 2007 8:43:28 GMT -5
What the hell is this damn show about? I can understand the producers/writers keeping it a mystery during the first two seasons or so. But with the strong focus upon the Others this season, they should have revealed some of the mysteries by now. What the hell is it about? What is the objective of Ben and the Others? You're starting to remind me of the the guy in Poe's "The Raven." Clearly the bird only knows the word "nevermore," so the guy spends the entire poem indulging himself in a massive self-pity party, repeating questions which he knows can't be answered in any other way. If you keep asking the same question about the Others, right now all of us can only provide one answer. We have no way of knowing. Nobody does, aside from those who write the show. Now, if you want to read some speculation and contribute some of your own, please do so. Sara, for example, had a mind-bending idea a couple of pages back regarding this whole adventure as some sort of cosmic do-over for Jack (oversimplifying, but that's the gist. I think . This show demands an extreme amount of patience...perhaps more than anything else I've watched. Problem is, when a show takes 5-6 full years to play out, it's nearly always underwhelming once questions DO get answered. "Alias," another Abrams creation, had many of the same weaknesses: one convoluted plot on top of the other, with so many threads to connect, one eventually throws up his or her hands and gives up trying. So you're left with two choices: 1. Enjoy the fact that while this appears to be a mess, it's at least a very entertaining mess. Ride it out and hope to catch illumination at some point, while remaining prepared for disappointment. 2. Cut bait and move on. I've chosen the former, though I understand the frustration of those who choose the latter. I'm going for door number #3 --- both of the above. Or maybe that's door number 1.5 --- something in between both of the above. But, yeah, to your main point: I'm going to do what is most fun for me, not that which drives me to tear out my hair in frustration----life is too short and there are too many good books to read. ============ And, again, 3 posts in a row which contribute absolutely nothing to the general discussion. I'm feeling particularly narcissistic this morning. It's all about how I feel. So, some actual (purely surface) reactions: Hurley's a hero----yay! Charlie's dead. Sawyer's psycho (him shooting the bad guy----strongely disagree in a RL morality type of way; totally agree in a "this is fiction, is totally practical" type of way) Kate--yawn Alex---great casting to look like her mom Sayid---hot. also dangerous. Bernard---irritating but oh so real. "You are a dentist, not Rambo." Best line he's had----when he went to shoot and frantically prayed "please God." Jin----also HOT. Jack---acting has improved. Guy seems to have a tough life in at least 3 different realities. As to Sarah being pregant that's just because the actress was. Rose---still love her chick with baby---yawn Ben----really creepy---this guy needs some type of professional recognition for acting. Creepy like Sylar but more subtly; he's like fingers on a blackboard Whatever reality they settle on should include more Nathan Fillion, preferably shirtless.(Apologies to those who are taking their analysis seriously. Remember, this is door #1.5)
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Post by Pixi on May 24, 2007 8:44:31 GMT -5
Okay Sara, I'm even more confused after reading this. You believe the entire three seasons have been only, all about Jack? And that Desmond is the key here? Please splainy more because I'm confused. Oh ObiSara. What, my midnight typings weren't entirely coherent? Short answer: no, I don't think it's only about Jack. Not necessarily, anyway; I'd never rule anything out at this point. What I meant was I think our Jack is experiencing the do-over BeardedJack wanted; for whatever reason, the universe needed to course-correct, and what we've been watching for the past three seasons is that course correction. And I think the course correction most likely began when Desmond revisited his past, because with his foreknowledge he acted in different ways than before—with the result that the bartender didn't get hit in the head, the ring ended up in the ocean instead of remaining in Mrs. Hawking's (the jewelry lady) shop, etc. Or, put another way, I think of BeardedJack's future as the equivalent of FutureHiro's world, and Desmond's sojourn into his own past as Desmond inadvertently doing the equivalent of saving Claire from Sylar. Make any more sense? If so I'm amazed, as it's early and I haven't had any coffee yet. It helps to compare it with Heroes. Okay, I do understand your theory now. Hmmm. Interesting. But why Jack? Because the futureback was all about him? Why not Kate? Or Sawyer? Or Locke? Or you know any of the featured Losties.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 24, 2007 8:45:48 GMT -5
Part IV
Dr. Rob Hammil.
Hero, twice over.
Fractured spinal cord. That sounds familiar. Is he going to marry this woman?
Gary Nadler
Unidentified woman. So who is the woman?
St. Sebastian.
Sawyer asserts himself. Also, he doesn't really care what happens to him.
I didn't want to go with you. So is he breaking up with Kate?
A hidden cache of guns.
Juliet kisses Jack.
Mikail shows up.
This is quickly turning into some kind of farce.
Assignment in Canada? Oh, the cover story for them. Right.
Mikail alerts them to Desmond. Dammit.
Cyclops.
Charlie tries to stir up conflict.
The Others didn't know the signals were being actively jammed. Did Ben tell them it was because some kind of mystical force or something? "ever since the sky turned purple..." ref.
Everything I did, I did for the island. The island told you it was necessary to jam your own people? Yes, it did.
Mikail's a loyalist.
Trust Jacob.
The island's under assault and the Others have to protect it.
Mikail sees himself as part of an inner circle.
Ben tries to make nice with Mikail.
I wonder if Mikail is going to un-jam the signal himself.
Greta. That name sounds familiar.
Kill Greta and Bonnie too. His own people.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 24, 2007 8:56:55 GMT -5
Part V Why all the rock breaking? They're building a runway. So they must have a plane (the one referenced in Man Behind The Curtain?) If there was a plane on the island, why didn't DHARMA already have runway built. Unless the Others destroyed it and then went oops. But why did they wait until now? And wouldn't one of those hydro planes (that don't need a runway) be a better idea all around? A runway? For what? For the aliens. HEE! So, are you screwing Jack, yet. No, are you? BWAH HAH HAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There aren't any guns. Of course there aren't. Why Juliet is going back. Karma. Good ol' Hurley. Ben's going to hand Alex over to her new family. So she betrayed him and she's no good to him now. Ben locked Karl in a cage and brainwashed him to prevent him and Alex from having sex? Is he fucking serious!? An asswhooping wouldn't have sufficed? I suppose I overreacted. Why doesn't Ben just let the Losties leave? Because he can't. Why? Locke! He's still alive! His legs aren't working? He's going to try to shoot himself and put himself out of his misery. WALT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! With a new and improved lower voice.
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Post by Spaced Out Looney on May 24, 2007 9:04:02 GMT -5
Part VI
Both Sawyer and Jack didn't want Kate to follow them because they were trying to protect her. Uch.
Jack tells Kate that he loves her. Why did he let Juliet kiss him then?
Joyriding.
Newspaper article.
Hoffs/Drawler funeral parlor.
Nobody showed up for the viewing. Of?
So he's abusing drugs as well as alcohol.
Danielle hasn't been back to the radio tower since she recorded the message.
Danielle doesn't want to leave the island.
Ben and Alex.
We need to talk.
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