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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 23, 2004 23:18:39 GMT -5
Very creepy. *shudder, shudder* I didn't like V. being there even with him behind glass. Eeeep! Lola Super creepy - kind of a surprise. I didn't expect Abel to be so . . . scary and nuts. But I like it as a development. That actor did wonderfully well.
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 23, 2004 23:21:32 GMT -5
I have no deep thoughts. I thought it was Kimmy but allowed myself to be fooled into thinking that was too easy a guess. I was even getting suspicious of Meg for a while but I'm glad she really was who she appeared to be because I do want there to be some good people at Neptune High. I like Mac, hope we see her again. Can I just say... I loved the numbers on the lockers. I can't believe school officials wouldn't have actively been trying to punish kids for defacing so much school property but it was still a pretty cool idea. The slut-sneezing was fabulous... as was valley girl Veronica, "We're like total BFFs!" Poor VM... "You used to be all anyone gossiped about..." and also, "Am I naked because, in my nightmares, I'm usually naked." Not sure what I think about Able. What would make you willing to go to jail for a murder you didn't commit? I feel for Veronica but she's got the resources to get this checked out doesn't she?? DNA testing is possible and she's devious enough to get the DNA she needs to do it. And how about zat school computer techni-shon? He vas a little bit sexy, no?
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 23, 2004 23:22:49 GMT -5
**nodding vigorously** Yep. I mean, her mom for sure would have been the one knowing for sure who was daddy and we haven't seen one bit of evidence that she had a problem with V. dating Duncan. Lola And now, I must to bed! We did see a scene where Lianne is plainly disturbed to learn that Veronica is dating Duncan. But I agree with Sue - not as disturbed as she should have been if they were bro/sis.
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 23, 2004 23:24:10 GMT -5
I missed most of the episode. What was the whole deal with Wallace and his mom's tenant? And Veronica's dad scaring him off like he did by acting crazy. That was just weird - that whole thing. Rae - thanks for the quotes. I loved the "Am I naked? Because in my nightmares I'm usually naked." Duncan and Veronica. *sigh* Could it be any more obvious there is some connection? Not brother and sister I hope. I agree that Koontz was lying and VERY Hannibal Lectorish. I just had the feeling that he was protecting Veronica in some way - or protecting Mrs. Kane. I think she did it, too. And I also don't think Jake is Veronica's dad. But there is something there. (duh) Patti - Have a great Thanksgiving! Scaring somebody off by acting crazy - perhaps what Abel was doing to Veronica?
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 23, 2004 23:26:22 GMT -5
Once again, I watch the episode too late to really be in the discussion. Poo. Why must they show it at 11pm here??
Well, enough of that. Time for bed!!
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Post by Karen on Nov 23, 2004 23:26:54 GMT -5
Thanks Karen - I had to get back online to say the one thing that struck me the most - Mac might be Veronica's Willow. She even resembled her a little to me - I hope she becomes a regular. Oh, that would be good! Veronica so needs an estrogen friend.
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Post by Rob on Nov 24, 2004 1:11:54 GMT -5
I have no deep thoughts. I thought it was Kimmy but allowed myself to be fooled into thinking that was too easy a guess. I was even getting suspicious of Meg for a while but I'm glad she really was who she appeared to be because I do want there to be some good people at Neptune High. I like Mac, hope we see her again. Can I just say... I loved the numbers on the lockers. I can't believe school officials wouldn't have actively been trying to punish kids for defacing so much school property but it was still a pretty cool idea. The slut-sneezing was fabulous... as was valley girl Veronica, "We're like total BFFs!" Poor VM... "You used to be all anyone gossiped about..." and also, "Am I naked because, in my nightmares, I'm usually naked." Not sure what I think about Able. What would make you willing to go to jail for a murder you didn't commit? I feel for Veronica but she's got the resources to get this checked out doesn't she?? DNA testing is possible and she's devious enough to get the DNA she needs to do it. I have a few speculations, which are about all one can do with this show. 1. I still think Abel is not guilty of the murder...but that doesn't mean he isn't a killer. If Veronica somehow does wind up producing hard evidence to set him free, that could end badly. 2. I still think Veronica's biological father is Keith. Koontz might believe he isn't...but my instinct says he's wrong. One way or the other, Keith is her father in every way that matters. If Jake is her Dad, it'll be hard for her to come to grips with ay first, but in time she WILL understand that. She's too smart not to. 3. I think an important point was finally made: Veronica is deeply wounded, and her nature is to lash out. She's extraordinary smart and resourceful, but that doesn't mean she should have license to destroy property and emotionally wound people on a whim. They may have attacked her first, it's true...but two wrongs really aren't making a right here. If there is one clear difference in the characters of Veronica Mars and Buffy Summers (aside from the obvious supernatural elements), it's their chosen way of dealing with social rejection. Buffy took comfort in those who DID love and value her regardless of circumstance...while Veronica refuses to trust quite so easily (with the exception of Wallace, who is so obviously without guile she can't help herself). Meg and Wallace, for example, clearly like her. Duncan, though it's a complicated mess, is surely not her enemy. Weevil and Veronica are on pleasant terms. It may not be the crowd she most desires, but it's a crowd just the same. Take it from me: to fit into ANY high school crowd ain't all that bad considering the alternative. Of course, the whole mystery surrounding Lily's death and her own parentage can't help matters...not to mention her (deep sigh) rape. Hopefully that will come in time. 4. Oh my God...Veronica in a cheerleading outfit. Are they trying to kill me? Seriously, she seems to get hotter every week. I loved that little thing she did with her wrists with Wallace over their satellite dish bonding...and her little joke boob-flash. If they weren't such good friends, I think their comfort with one another would make them an interesting couple. Ah-ha! I can see people rolling their eyes and saying no. They're good friends, and a relationship could spoil it...and all that stuff. Maybe...but I'm not buying into all that this time. I think the real reason is this: most people wouldn't want to see Veronica/Wallace because they don't perceive him as worthy compared to a Logan or Duncan...or even Weevil. They're better looking and more edgy. Wallace doesn't fit the "hottie" profile that someone like Veronica should hook up with...he's already pigeonholed as the average-looking stalwart who is always there for her. I put it to you that IF Veronica and Wallace saw each other that way (and they don't appear to at this point), he's just what she would need: someone honest and uncomplicated while everyone else in her world is a mess. Just as I want to see Hurley given some more complexities on "Lost," I'd also like to see the nerdy-faithful-buddy guy get the girl for once. It'd be pretty groundbreaking stuff.
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Post by Lola m on Nov 24, 2004 7:22:02 GMT -5
Super creepy - kind of a surprise. I didn't expect Abel to be so . . . scary and nuts. But I like it as a development. That actor did wonderfully well. Wonderfully creepy acting. Also, the cutting back and forth from her side of the glass to his, so his voice was softer, then louder, then softer as we heard it through the phone and then with no filter? Very good choice - it added to the disorientation and atmosphere of threat and ickiness. Lola
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Post by Lola m on Nov 24, 2004 7:24:37 GMT -5
We did see a scene where Lianne is plainly disturbed to learn that Veronica is dating Duncan. But I agree with Sue - not as disturbed as she should have been if they were bro/sis. I missed/forgot about that scene - shoot! **pouts** But still, as you say, this would have been a big enough deal that I think her mom would have done much more to make sure Veronica and Duncan didn't get/stay together. Either telling Veronica the truth, or managing it some how. Lola
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Post by Lola m on Nov 24, 2004 7:27:05 GMT -5
Oh, that would be good! Veronica so needs an estrogen friend. Yes! I liked both Mac and the birds-braid-my-hair girl as good choices for friends for V. They are very different from each other, but they'd be nice contrasts to Veronica and help keep her tied to people, maybe wear down some of that bitterness. Lola
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Post by Lola m on Nov 24, 2004 7:40:30 GMT -5
I have a few speculations, which are about all one can do with this show. 1. I still think Abel is not guilty of the murder...but that doesn't mean he isn't a killer. If Veronica somehow does wind up producing hard evidence to set him free, that could end badly. Yep. Definitely not a nice neat "get the innocent guy out of prison hooray" kind of story. **shivers again** Eetah. With all of this. Yep, yep yep. I love how they are slowly showing us the cracks in Veronica's cynical/tough exterior. And how various people around her are starting to push a bit at the wall she's building around her. I'm also glad the show isn't afraid to show us that she's her own flawed character - very different in a lot of ways, as you point out, from Buffy (not that Buffy didn't have her own Buffy-specific flaws ;D ). I'm always pleased to see fully rounded, complex characters! So many shows don't bother or are afraid that the audience won't be able to understand or won't "like" the characters. See now, I can totally see Veronica and Wallace. They have the nice banter/flirtation thing going on, they work well together, he's a good guy but also his own no-nonsense person - doesn't let Veronica get away with stuff (well, not the important stuff). And his mom might be thawing a bit toward the Mars family in general now, so that should help. 'Course, he's already got the one girlfriend/girl he was getting together with, but we haven't seen her in several eps, so I'm betting it's not that serious yet. ;D Lola
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 24, 2004 7:58:56 GMT -5
I have a few speculations, which are about all one can do with this show. 1. I still think Abel is not guilty of the murder...but that doesn't mean he isn't a killer. If Veronica somehow does wind up producing hard evidence to set him free, that could end badly. My feelings exactly. With you all the way on that one, too. Buffy was more one to shut herself off than lash out. When she was angry or hurting, she didn't usually plant bongs in someone's locker. But she did just close herself off more and more. She did do some lashing out - but it was more confined - it was basically at Spike only. There's another factor here - Buffy had her Slayer-duties as an outlet, so I think that helped her. Yes, I was glad that Meg told her the things that she told her, at the end. That cheerleading outfit . . . do they really make HS cheerleading outfits that revealing these days? Personally, I'm not getting any big chemistry for Veronica with any of the guys . . . but here's my take: DUNCAN: He's not very well defined - I know Veronica was very much in love with him, but I just haven't seen enough to have told myself: "Yep, he's the one for her, it's more than an intense flash-in-the-pan HS romance." LOGAN: Logan is better defined, and I like him mostly, and they are deliberately doing a lot (a lot) of paralleling between Veronica and Logan (I think his last name is "Echolls" - i.e., contains the word "echo" for a reason.) But I have yet to sense a lot of sexual chemistry. Their main bond being his dead girlfriend isn't so condusive to that. I suppose they could go with the "negative energy turns to sparks" thing with these two, but it doesn't feel that way at this point. WEEVIL: Again, not getting the chemistry thing. Also, I just can't see Weevil going for Veronica. He seems to have an almost protective, big-bro air about him, around her. Yes, he can see that she's a hottie and may tell her so now and then, but . . . that really comes off as bravado. He's very into his family and just plain doesn't seem interested in Veronica "that way," at this point. Or vice-versa. WALLACE: Not getting the chemistry with him either, though these two have a start in a friendship. They could go the "positive energy turns into more" route, though I'm not getting those vibes right now. Both act so much like friends who aren't particularly sexually attracted, that Veronica was comfortable flashing Wallace, and Wallace was non-chalant about it. True - but is Veronica what Wallace needs? I'm thinking no, and that this is part of the reason he doesn't make moves on her. She is very hurting and damaged and just needs a friend and he can sense that, and also, he's a smart kid and doesn't need or want more than that with someone so very hurt and damaged and in need of healing time. I don't mean he sits around thinking all this consciously. But he's a sensitive person, and he also has some basic self-esteem and common sense. Someone who is in such bad shape emotionally as Veronica is, is not so attractive as mate material. I agree Wallace could be good for Veronica. BUT, I'm not convinced Wallace is interested in her as anything more than a friend. This is a crucial piece - if I was convinced that he wanted her, and that she would be good for him, then I could get on board this train.
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Post by Rob on Nov 24, 2004 19:31:21 GMT -5
That cheerleading outfit . . . do they really make HS cheerleading outfits that revealing these days? Thanks be to God...yes, they do. In fact, as modern cheerleading outfits go, that was pretty average. You should've seen the outfits the dance team wore when I went to high school in the 80's. I had to skip gym class more than once because of them.
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Post by Nickim on Nov 26, 2004 10:30:07 GMT -5
I haven't seen this episode yet, but just wanted to add a little tidbit. The Oprah Show did a makeover for two sisters--hair, makeup, wardrobe. They flew them to Hollywood and one of the clothing stores they shopped at is called Veronica M!
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Post by SpringSummers on Nov 30, 2004 13:59:47 GMT -5
Sue – Great opening for the review:
You said it. I also like the way you summed it up about Abel and his revelation: “One thing is clear – he is a liar.” Yep. So grains of salt all around. And I agree Veronica will want to confirm – though it may be hard for her to get up the gumption to investigate this one!
And I like the way you used quotes from our past reviews to reveal one of the Season's themes.
On the Megan storyline: You know what I liked best about the Megan side of the story? How Megan basically just kept going and didn’t get super-defensive or really try to defend herself at all. That’s the reaction of someone who knows and truly believes in their heart that another person’s accusation is outrageously false. Extreme defensiveness and lashing out is always a sign that somewhere inside you – logically or not - you know, or feel, or are afraid, that the accusation is TRUE.
Contrast Megan’s behavior and reaction to being dragged through the mud, to Veronica’s. Veronica –with Duncan dumping her for what seemed like no reason, then her best friend dying and leaving her (which can also feel like getting dumped for no reason, even if you know that’s not so intellectually), and then her mom abandoning her – she lacks the confidence Megan has. Veronica is lashing out and getting even because she’s full of doubts about herself, her identity and her own worth, despite the confident, tough-girl act.
Nice job, Sue!
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